Discussion
)nn7man said:
It's just a shame about the engine, shared with a £50K car. Wonder if they'll put the V12 in it?
The M177 has enough hardware and software differences in its Vantage application, that it would no longer be plug-n-play into a Mercedes; the assumption still seems to be that it's just grabbed from AMG and installed between the suspension turrets of the Vantage and then delivered to a dealer.Strangely, TVR appear to have had little backlash for their choice of engine in the new Griff. It's available to buy as a crate motor for $9500, and the car's priced at circa £95k? Lord knows what Cosworth were charging for their tinkering. I'm just surprised there's not been outrage at lack of an in-house AJP8 derived power plant
In any case, the AMG derived engine for the Vantage was the stepping stone needed to build a car that could compete with its rivals. There was simply a big gulf created between the relatively old hat 4.3/4.7 and what Porsche, Audi, Ferrari and Merc have been building in recent years, such was the life cycle of the old car, unfortunately they'd been somewhat left behind on the engine front. The new car's excellent, due in part to its engine, not in spite of it.
NFC 85 Vette said:
The M177 has enough hardware and software differences in its Vantage application, that it would no longer be plug-n-play into a Mercedes; the assumption still seems to be that it's just grabbed from AMG and installed between the suspension turrets of the Vantage and then delivered to a dealer.
Strangely, TVR appear to have had little backlash for their choice of engine in the new Griff. It's available to buy as a crate motor for $9500, and the car's priced at circa £95k? Lord knows what Cosworth were charging for their tinkering. I'm just surprised there's not been outrage at lack of an in-house AJP8 derived power plant
In any case, the AMG derived engine for the Vantage was the stepping stone needed to build a car that could compete with its rivals. There was simply a big gulf created between the relatively old hat 4.3/4.7 and what Porsche, Audi, Ferrari and Merc have been building in recent years, such was the life cycle of the old car, unfortunately they'd been somewhat left behind on the engine front. The new car's excellent, due in part to its engine, not in spite of it.
Don't get me wrong, I love the engine. Its epic, I'm just saying its used in much cheaper cars with the same output. They have a contract which won't allow AM to fiddle with it to outstrip AMG without permission. So the "hardware and software differences" produce precisely nothing. Which is a shame as the engine has so much more to give. Brabus tune it up to 800PS/ 1,000NM, well at least the E Class version.Strangely, TVR appear to have had little backlash for their choice of engine in the new Griff. It's available to buy as a crate motor for $9500, and the car's priced at circa £95k? Lord knows what Cosworth were charging for their tinkering. I'm just surprised there's not been outrage at lack of an in-house AJP8 derived power plant
In any case, the AMG derived engine for the Vantage was the stepping stone needed to build a car that could compete with its rivals. There was simply a big gulf created between the relatively old hat 4.3/4.7 and what Porsche, Audi, Ferrari and Merc have been building in recent years, such was the life cycle of the old car, unfortunately they'd been somewhat left behind on the engine front. The new car's excellent, due in part to its engine, not in spite of it.
nn7man said:
They have a contract which won't allow AM to fiddle with it to outstrip AMG without permission. So the "hardware and software differences" produce precisely nothing. Which is a shame as the engine has so much more to give. Brabus tune it up to 800PS/ 1,000NM, well at least the E Class version.
You seem remarkably well informed about the contract. Do tell.nn7man said:
Don't get me wrong, I love the engine. Its epic, I'm just saying its used in much cheaper cars with the same output. They have a contract which won't allow AM to fiddle with it to outstrip AMG without permission. So the "hardware and software differences" produce precisely nothing. Which is a shame as the engine has so much more to give. Brabus tune it up to 800PS/ 1,000NM, well at least the E Class version.
The various Merc's that use the engine from the AMG GT can all have a software tweak to AMG GTR easily, so it's only a matter of time before we see the Vantage driving about with a few more horses,PantsFire said:
The various Merc's that use the engine from the AMG GT can all have a software tweak to AMG GTR easily, so it's only a matter of time before we see the Vantage driving about with a few more horses,
It would depend on the wording of the agreement with Daimler, as the M177 is only used in a few AMG applications now, and it's a different base engine to that in the current high end AMG applications. At higher power levels, the M178 is used (powering the AMG GTR, GTS, Brabus etc). I don't know if Aston have an agreement for using it, nor what 'performance caps' are placed on what they can do. Certainly, headline figures might be similar between them, but the character and sound of the M177 in the Vantage is quite different to AMG's approach (think old Vantage recreation vs AMG's Mopar tribute).
Bincenzo said:
nn7man said:
They have a contract which won't allow AM to fiddle with it to outstrip AMG without permission. So the "hardware and software differences" produce precisely nothing. Which is a shame as the engine has so much more to give. Brabus tune it up to 800PS/ 1,000NM, well at least the E Class version.
You seem remarkably well informed about the contract. Do tell.
nn7manWe're all still waiting.
CB07 said:
New Vantage ones, to me, appear to take design clues from the original 1977 Vantage. Much classier
I see what you're saying. But at the end of the day it's just a pipe. Albeit, a very unfinished looking pipe that simply doesn't belong on a US$150k sports car in 2018. AM - put some Vanquish S pipe finishings on the rear and call it a day. It'll stop the internet discussing it and it'll look superb.
Yesterday I finally saw one of these in the flesh, stuck in the traffic and the rain on Old Street, London. Some shade of black and it looked superb. My first glance of it I thought, that's a bloody good looking F-type, but only for a nanosecond until I twigged. Very nice indeed.
But I'd still have my V12VS every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I just love it.
But I'd still have my V12VS every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I just love it.
NFC 85 Vette said:
It would depend on the wording of the agreement with Daimler, as the M177 is only used in a few AMG applications now, and it's a different base engine to that in the current high end AMG applications. At higher power levels, the M178 is used (powering the AMG GTR, GTS, Brabus etc). I don't know if Aston have an agreement for using it, nor what 'performance caps' are placed on what they can do.
With regards to Brabus modifications:The M177 engine is the conventional oil sump version of the V8 which is used in the four door AMG cars with output ranging between 476 PS and 639 PS and in the DB11 and the new Vantage with 510 PS. The M178 is the dry sump version used in the AMG GT with 476 PS to 585 PS. For the two frequently sold versions with 510 PS (it wouldn´t matter if it is a M177 or a M178) and with 585 PS Brabus is offering an Eco Power Xtra add-on-engine management system. The 510 PS version will get to 600 PS and the 585 PS version will get to 650 PS. The price is about 7.000 € incl. VAT plus installation (500 €).
The option 800 PS is starting with the M177 engine in the 612 PS version (which has some internal parts changed vs. the 511 PS version) and requires larger turbos among other changes. It is probably quite challenging to convert a 510 PS engine into a 612 PS engine. But then the conversion to 800 PS should be possible for any local Brabus representative at reasonable cost.
Hmm..had a short demo last weekend just on the off chance.....WAY more impressed than I was expecting - so much so I’m going back again for a extended drive tomorrow. All of a sudden am seriously considering one as I think this is (IMHO) Aston’s most exploitable real world car yet... loved the chassis feel from my brief encounter
And this from a card-carrying VH owner...(GT8, Vanq Ultimate, ex V12VSM etc) 😱
Sales are likely not quite what AP was looking for by the looks of things as I’m told there’s an additional 2 years warranty (to 5 to match the free servicing pack) in the deal until year end 👍
Just sayin’..lets see...
And this from a card-carrying VH owner...(GT8, Vanq Ultimate, ex V12VSM etc) 😱
Sales are likely not quite what AP was looking for by the looks of things as I’m told there’s an additional 2 years warranty (to 5 to match the free servicing pack) in the deal until year end 👍
Just sayin’..lets see...
I think it’s a market thing; elsewhere on PH you’ll find a guy who’s got £35k off a Lamborghini Huracan Performante and people being offered big discounts on McLarens (and don’t even think about trying to sell one back to a dealer).
Just feels like the market for cars is very soft at the moment so I’m sure there are good deals to be had
Just feels like the market for cars is very soft at the moment so I’m sure there are good deals to be had
You forgot the headlights. I've been in one and couldn't fault it. (of course, a bumpy side road will feel like,,,,, well,,,,, bumpy) 
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