Discussion
cayman-black said:
I think even that base Carrera will be more or less £100k when essential options have been added i,e proper wheels for a start.
So i don't think the new Vantage is priced that much out. Oversupply is the main problem these days.
As for the Mclaren, i could not care less if it was twice as fast as the Aston i would not buy one!
^^ ThisSo i don't think the new Vantage is priced that much out. Oversupply is the main problem these days.
As for the Mclaren, i could not care less if it was twice as fast as the Aston i would not buy one!
cayman-black said:
I think even that base Carrera will be more or less £100k when essential options have been added i,e proper wheels for a start.
So i don't think the new Vantage is priced that much out. Oversupply is the main problem these days.
As for the Mclaren, i could not care less if it was twice as fast as the Aston i would not buy one!
Not wishing to flog that horse but....So i don't think the new Vantage is priced that much out. Oversupply is the main problem these days.
As for the Mclaren, i could not care less if it was twice as fast as the Aston i would not buy one!
New Carrera S is £95K add £5K for options = £100K
NewVantage is. £120 add. £5K for options = £125K
That £25K does or can make a difference to some peeps.
It misses that magic sub £100K price point.
Using a relative example ..
The new Corvette in the USA is circa $60K
In the UK circa £80K
If it was £60K in the UK it's got to be a very tempting offer whereas at £80K ,plus options,
there are several more competitors.
There's also the used car pricing to consider.....
A lot of guys on PH can't afford new so wait say 3/4 years with a price point of £50K in mind ,if that becomes circa £60K it's too far a stretch.
Maybe I'm unusual because in my business I notice a big drop off in sales and interest if price points are missed.
avinalarf said:
Not wishing to flog that horse but....
New Carrera S is £95K add £5K for options = £100K
NewVantage is. £120 add. £5K for options = £125K
That £25K does or can make a difference to some peeps.
It misses that magic sub £100K price point.
Using a relative example ..
The new Corvette in the USA is circa $60K
In the UK circa £80K
If it was £60K in the UK it's got to be a very tempting offer whereas at £80K ,plus options,
there are several more competitors.
There's also the used car pricing to consider.....
A lot of guys on PH can't afford new so wait say 3/4 years with a price point of £50K in mind ,if that becomes circa £60K it's too far a stretch.
Maybe I'm unusual because in my business I notice a big drop off in sales and interest if price points are missed.
I never knew the ladyboy market was that sensitive New Carrera S is £95K add £5K for options = £100K
NewVantage is. £120 add. £5K for options = £125K
That £25K does or can make a difference to some peeps.
It misses that magic sub £100K price point.
Using a relative example ..
The new Corvette in the USA is circa $60K
In the UK circa £80K
If it was £60K in the UK it's got to be a very tempting offer whereas at £80K ,plus options,
there are several more competitors.
There's also the used car pricing to consider.....
A lot of guys on PH can't afford new so wait say 3/4 years with a price point of £50K in mind ,if that becomes circa £60K it's too far a stretch.
Maybe I'm unusual because in my business I notice a big drop off in sales and interest if price points are missed.
I suspect that very few buyers “ only “ add £5k in options - certainly not where Aston concerned so think the average comparison nearer £110k v £145k.
Then factor in depreciation.
With good haggling you can probably get £ 30k off a stock Aston but dealers are probably then to quote u a further 25% factor for depreciation within say a 6 month period.
So a £145k car becomes worth 40% less within the first year.
Until these stock cars move ( and there a lot ) the problem won’t go away.
And that’s before looks come into it.
It’s exactly the same problem on DBS and DB11 - unless money is meaningless to you buying a “ non special or limited Aston is now very expensive.
I’ve still lost far less in share depreciation terms though so at least a silver lining !
Then factor in depreciation.
With good haggling you can probably get £ 30k off a stock Aston but dealers are probably then to quote u a further 25% factor for depreciation within say a 6 month period.
So a £145k car becomes worth 40% less within the first year.
Until these stock cars move ( and there a lot ) the problem won’t go away.
And that’s before looks come into it.
It’s exactly the same problem on DBS and DB11 - unless money is meaningless to you buying a “ non special or limited Aston is now very expensive.
I’ve still lost far less in share depreciation terms though so at least a silver lining !
I think the retail pricing is not the headline that most buyers are interested in, its how much a month. The majority of cars are bought on pcp. I would hazzard a guess that Aston Martins new young customer profile fits the pcp / live for today model perfectly. However, with depreciation as savage as it is, the pcp deals are not going to be that great which will put a lot of these buyers off. Looking at alternatives like porsche with strong residuals the pcp deals are far more attractive. So the pricing strategy for AMs target market doesnt work.
soofsayer said:
I think the retail pricing is not the headline that most buyers are interested in, its how much a month. The majority of cars are bought on pcp. I would hazzard a guess that Aston Martins new young customer profile fits the pcp / live for today model perfectly. However, with depreciation as savage as it is, the pcp deals are not going to be that great which will put a lot of these buyers off. Looking at alternatives like porsche with strong residuals the pcp deals are far more attractive. So the pricing strategy for AMs target market doesnt work.
I was brought up rather old school, so know little about the workings of PCP.
What I do know is that the participants and I am told they amount to about 80% of private 'buyers', pay less per month than they would have previously using higher purchase. They can therefore obtain a much better car, which has enabled Mercedes-Benz UK to literally double their sales. Incredible.
You refer to depreciation and the PCP providers obviously need to estimate residual values.
Interesting, because the providers must be involved with staggering amounts of money outstanding.
Since launch of the new Vantage, have the monthly PCP payments needed to be increased, because presumably the providers have had to reduce their original estimates of residual values?
Do AML get involved with any risk of these contracts, or is it all done by outside providers?
I am not party to the inner workings of residual values on cars and I dont tend to use finance for vehicles. However, pcp deals are usually set with a balloon payment significantly below the anticipated residual future value.
https://www.astonmartin.com/en-gb/ownership/financ...
The balloon numbers in the £80k+ being quoted on 2 year old new vantage cars by aston martin finance. The way the manufacturers help keep the pcp monthly payments down on heavy depreciating cars is by discounting the retail (usually described as dealer deposit contributions). Clearly this is a vicious circle as it impacts residual values longer term.
https://www.astonmartin.com/en-gb/ownership/financ...
The balloon numbers in the £80k+ being quoted on 2 year old new vantage cars by aston martin finance. The way the manufacturers help keep the pcp monthly payments down on heavy depreciating cars is by discounting the retail (usually described as dealer deposit contributions). Clearly this is a vicious circle as it impacts residual values longer term.
Hi all-
I am new to the forum from the US. Have never owned Aston before but familiar with German brands most recently 2016 911 S (which I didn't love) and C63 prior to that. I have been looking very closely at the vantage. I really like it and it gets me back to what I want (front/mid V8, rear drive). I never got used to the rear engine dynamics of the 911. I live in a city that has one of the higher volume US Aston dealers, but they are sitting on a lot of inventory. I'm not sure if this is the same in the UK and elsewhere but Aston I believe does not allow US dealers to list all available inventory online, otherwise we would really see how many are sitting. I know many find the looks polarizing but I think the issue with this car is entirely pricing. In USD I think it is roughly $50k too expensive. It could really compete with 911 sales (and I think really take some market share) if they had priced it right. They are sitting on $180K plus cars and watching sales drop and share price tumble. Again I really like the car but it not a $200k car in this market. They have been pushing the lease deal in US but still not a many takers it seems, though that deal is slowly getting sweeter by the month. I will bite if they make it worthwhile or wait for a depreciated one in a few months. The 2020 models are showing up everywhere and dealers are sitting on many 19s.
JM
I am new to the forum from the US. Have never owned Aston before but familiar with German brands most recently 2016 911 S (which I didn't love) and C63 prior to that. I have been looking very closely at the vantage. I really like it and it gets me back to what I want (front/mid V8, rear drive). I never got used to the rear engine dynamics of the 911. I live in a city that has one of the higher volume US Aston dealers, but they are sitting on a lot of inventory. I'm not sure if this is the same in the UK and elsewhere but Aston I believe does not allow US dealers to list all available inventory online, otherwise we would really see how many are sitting. I know many find the looks polarizing but I think the issue with this car is entirely pricing. In USD I think it is roughly $50k too expensive. It could really compete with 911 sales (and I think really take some market share) if they had priced it right. They are sitting on $180K plus cars and watching sales drop and share price tumble. Again I really like the car but it not a $200k car in this market. They have been pushing the lease deal in US but still not a many takers it seems, though that deal is slowly getting sweeter by the month. I will bite if they make it worthwhile or wait for a depreciated one in a few months. The 2020 models are showing up everywhere and dealers are sitting on many 19s.
JM
jmadtx said:
...The 2020 models are showing up everywhere and dealers are sitting on many 19s...
My understanding is that historically next year models were introduced in the preceding October. So and are the 2020 model year cars already out in July and what respect do they differ to the '19s ? Edited by RichB on Thursday 1st August 14:17
Yes I have seen 2020 models on the ground at my local dealer and other US dealers showing 2020 inventory in stock. I dont know that there is much difference if at all. I know that the hood vents are available on 2020 as I saw one with it. I am not sure but maybe some option packaging has changed but again I dont think there is any significant difference. Interestingly my dealer was receiving 20s that were not preordered and are available. They are not listed online however
jmadtx said:
Hi all-
I am new to the forum from the US. Have never owned Aston before but familiar with German brands most recently 2016 911 S (which I didn't love) and C63 prior to that. I have been looking very closely at the vantage. I really like it and it gets me back to what I want (front/mid V8, rear drive). I never got used to the rear engine dynamics of the 911. I live in a city that has one of the higher volume US Aston dealers, but they are sitting on a lot of inventory. I'm not sure if this is the same in the UK and elsewhere but Aston I believe does not allow US dealers to list all available inventory online, otherwise we would really see how many are sitting. I know many find the looks polarizing but I think the issue with this car is entirely pricing. In USD I think it is roughly $50k too expensive. It could really compete with 911 sales (and I think really take some market share) if they had priced it right. They are sitting on $180K plus cars and watching sales drop and share price tumble. Again I really like the car but it not a $200k car in this market. They have been pushing the lease deal in US but still not a many takers it seems, though that deal is slowly getting sweeter by the month. I will bite if they make it worthwhile or wait for a depreciated one in a few months. The 2020 models are showing up everywhere and dealers are sitting on many 19s.
JM
My understanding is that US Retail sales of the Vantage have been very strong (unlike the poor UK). But inevitably there are always deals to be done....I am new to the forum from the US. Have never owned Aston before but familiar with German brands most recently 2016 911 S (which I didn't love) and C63 prior to that. I have been looking very closely at the vantage. I really like it and it gets me back to what I want (front/mid V8, rear drive). I never got used to the rear engine dynamics of the 911. I live in a city that has one of the higher volume US Aston dealers, but they are sitting on a lot of inventory. I'm not sure if this is the same in the UK and elsewhere but Aston I believe does not allow US dealers to list all available inventory online, otherwise we would really see how many are sitting. I know many find the looks polarizing but I think the issue with this car is entirely pricing. In USD I think it is roughly $50k too expensive. It could really compete with 911 sales (and I think really take some market share) if they had priced it right. They are sitting on $180K plus cars and watching sales drop and share price tumble. Again I really like the car but it not a $200k car in this market. They have been pushing the lease deal in US but still not a many takers it seems, though that deal is slowly getting sweeter by the month. I will bite if they make it worthwhile or wait for a depreciated one in a few months. The 2020 models are showing up everywhere and dealers are sitting on many 19s.
JM
RobDown said:
My understanding is that US Retail sales of the Vantage have been very strong (unlike the poor UK). But inevitably there are always deals to be done....
I think I might have found the reason.
That impression was indeed given in the AML announcement Rob, but having seen 200 new Vantages listed for sale on a USA website, I conclude the US growth comparison might be an instance of comparing apples with pears.
The first new (customer) Vantage left the production line on the 17th May 2018, so comparing sales in H1 2019 with H1 2018 is bound to show an increase. Few Vantages were sold in H1 2018.
The increase would be exaggerated in the USA, because do you remember the USA side airbag issue, which meant no first generation Vantages could be sold in America in H1 2018.
Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 1st August 14:47
You may be correct. I have not seen hard data on US sales. I can tell you anecdotally I just do not see new Vantages on the road. Only a handful where I live. I spend a lot of time in Los Angeles and saw only one on several trips. Several dealers out there as well. Many US dealers show a lot of 19s and now 20s in stock, and they are certainly not listing everything they have. I really feel if this car had been priced right it would have kicked Porsche in the teeth and they'd be on the road. It is a very good car and the AMG pedigree engine is actually appealing to many including me. I know that may annoy the purists. Either way, wouldn't it better for them to move some inventory given the current situation? Of course I dont know what their margins are on these.
Your point re. pricing compared to Porsche.
I have great sympathy for AML in this respect. The volume of cars and SUVs produced by Porsche, make Aston Martin's production look like a 'cottage industry'. Of course when costs are spread across so many more vehicles, then the unit cost reduces. Therefore Porsche have such an advantage and can probably set lower prices if they choose to and still make a profit.
I think manufacturer contributions have been mentioned on here, for USA leasing (is that the correct word). It was also referred to in AML's H1 2019 results, as a cost to the Company. Presumably they are trying to effectively lower prices, if customers use a finance scheme.
I'm new the Aston Martin forum and I've found this thread very interesting, having just purchased a 2019 registered new model Vantage at 5 months old. I guess I'm the type of customer Aston Martin's looking for, as I traded in my 911 Turbo (991.2) and owned a McLaren 570S prior to that.
Firstly I'd have to say just how delighted I am with the Vantage, it's simply awesome. It's quick, not quite as fast as the 911 Turbo or 570S, but plenty quick for the road. From 60 MPH to 130 MPH it's as quick as a sports series McLaren. If you've not driven one, I don't think performance will be an issue. I found the 911 Turbo fast but bland, to the extent that the only enjoyment was going quickly. At no time did I look at it with affection in the way I do my Vantage. It was a cold experience, one where the enjoyment levels it offered did not match my expectations. It simply did not feel special.
The McLaren offered thrills in many ways, but I suffered corrosion problems within 12 months of buying it new, which left a bitter taste and a large depreciation hole in my wallet. However it did make you feel special every time it was driven. These are best bought at 12 months old, that's where the real value is.
When it came to replacing my 911 Turbo I considered many, many options, and each time the new Vantage was near the top of the list. After being stung with my McLaren 1st year depreciation, I'd made up my mind to source my next car from the nearly new category. A few weeks of watching the market to find a colour inside and out I liked, then I stumbled across a 2019 ex-factory car which had everything I could have hoped for, including some options I didn't even know existed. A deal was made over the phone with the lovely folk from Newcastle, with a tremendous saving compared to new, making this near £150k spec cheaper than a new 992 4S with some options. In my opinion there's absolutely no comparison. With a 5 years service pack as well, it was almost too good to be true.
1,000 miles later and I can only say positive things about my Vantage. It's stunning to look at, sounds amazing, steers beautifully, feels special on the inside and is a joy to own. The only part of Vantage ownership which I'm still getting used to is the almost complete lack of engine braking, but otherwise this car lives up to the hype. I couldn't recommend it enough, and as a nearly new car with a big saving, there's little out there that offers it's blend of exclusivity, performance, head turning looks and refinement.
Firstly I'd have to say just how delighted I am with the Vantage, it's simply awesome. It's quick, not quite as fast as the 911 Turbo or 570S, but plenty quick for the road. From 60 MPH to 130 MPH it's as quick as a sports series McLaren. If you've not driven one, I don't think performance will be an issue. I found the 911 Turbo fast but bland, to the extent that the only enjoyment was going quickly. At no time did I look at it with affection in the way I do my Vantage. It was a cold experience, one where the enjoyment levels it offered did not match my expectations. It simply did not feel special.
The McLaren offered thrills in many ways, but I suffered corrosion problems within 12 months of buying it new, which left a bitter taste and a large depreciation hole in my wallet. However it did make you feel special every time it was driven. These are best bought at 12 months old, that's where the real value is.
When it came to replacing my 911 Turbo I considered many, many options, and each time the new Vantage was near the top of the list. After being stung with my McLaren 1st year depreciation, I'd made up my mind to source my next car from the nearly new category. A few weeks of watching the market to find a colour inside and out I liked, then I stumbled across a 2019 ex-factory car which had everything I could have hoped for, including some options I didn't even know existed. A deal was made over the phone with the lovely folk from Newcastle, with a tremendous saving compared to new, making this near £150k spec cheaper than a new 992 4S with some options. In my opinion there's absolutely no comparison. With a 5 years service pack as well, it was almost too good to be true.
1,000 miles later and I can only say positive things about my Vantage. It's stunning to look at, sounds amazing, steers beautifully, feels special on the inside and is a joy to own. The only part of Vantage ownership which I'm still getting used to is the almost complete lack of engine braking, but otherwise this car lives up to the hype. I couldn't recommend it enough, and as a nearly new car with a big saving, there's little out there that offers it's blend of exclusivity, performance, head turning looks and refinement.
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