V8 Twin turbo DB11
Discussion
BamfordMike said:
Aston is in no-mans-land, slightly too big to claim kit car maker reduced stringent legislation allowances but nowhere near big enough to have its own tech - but regardless of that, the petrol engine normal passenger car will change beyond recognition starting 2021 and for 2025 - the petrol engine sports car is doomed and what you see now is pretty much the start of that process. If electric is the answer, it needs to get past its current 'brick mobile phone' technology stage to be the iPhone it needs to be to make a good passenger car, let alone a sports car with more range than a few miles when pedal is to the metal.
I share your frustration but the end result of a copy / paste engine under the hood, Can you really blame Aston? And as Clarkson said on top gear - enjoy your V12V manual - end of an era!
I'm not convinced long term that battery/electric as we know it today is the answer (I guess you aren't either given your phrasing) but as you say, combustion engine cars are going to change beyond all recognitionI share your frustration but the end result of a copy / paste engine under the hood, Can you really blame Aston? And as Clarkson said on top gear - enjoy your V12V manual - end of an era!
I am actually far more concerned about where we might be able to drive our current cars (assuming we keep them) in 10+ and 20+ years time than how the petrol engined cars of the day will look. I have no doubt that at some stage, cars like our current V12 monsters will be outlawed on public roads, certainly in some of the major cities, so the question is will that happen in my lifetime .....
Electric cars surely can't be the future?. The logistics of being able to quickly charge millions of cars such that they can have a decent range just doesn't seem feasible. I would imagine hydrogen power would be the better long term option
But my worry is less having somewhere to drive the car and more the availability of petrol. Once the new car switch is made to electric/hydrogen whatever, presumably mainstream petrol availability falls away rapidly over a 10-20 year period?
But my worry is less having somewhere to drive the car and more the availability of petrol. Once the new car switch is made to electric/hydrogen whatever, presumably mainstream petrol availability falls away rapidly over a 10-20 year period?
RobDown said:
Electric cars surely can't be the future?. The logistics of being able to quickly charge millions of cars such that they can have a decent range just doesn't seem feasible. I would imagine hydrogen power would be the better long term option
But my worry is less having somewhere to drive the car and more the availability of petrol. Once the new car switch is made to electric/hydrogen whatever, presumably mainstream petrol availability falls away rapidly over a 10-20 year period?
agree with the first part. It's also worth remembering that with autonomous driving coming in, I do wonder if in two generations time, we will approach car ownership in the same way - surely the logical conclusion is restricted top speeds, cars communicating with each other, fully autonomous driving, etc and the idea that a car's performance or handling characteristics are important will seem archaic. I can see the future being driverless taxis or an equivalent - what's the point in owning a car if you can't actually drive it ? Let's just rejoice as petrolheads that we weren't born in this decade !But my worry is less having somewhere to drive the car and more the availability of petrol. Once the new car switch is made to electric/hydrogen whatever, presumably mainstream petrol availability falls away rapidly over a 10-20 year period?
On the second, surely locations of petrol availability and rules on where you can drive petrol cars will fall hand in hand ?
jonby said:
I'm not convinced long term that battery/electric as we know it today is the answer (I guess you aren't either given your phrasing) but as you say, combustion engine cars are going to change beyond all recognition
I am actually far more concerned about where we might be able to drive our current cars (assuming we keep them) in 10+ and 20+ years time than how the petrol engined cars of the day will look. I have no doubt that at some stage, cars like our current V12 monsters will be outlawed on public roads, certainly in some of the major cities, so the question is will that happen in my lifetime .....
The thinking in the auto industry is whilst they know the tech of today is the brick phone, unless they deliver and then surpass the brick phone and then repeat that cycle over and over, you won't ever achieve a smartphone - but for mainstream cars the industry doesn't really know what the smartphone is yet, but legislation (Obama) is forcing unrealistic targets. If crash legislation hadn't saddled car with weight, the targets would be simple - imagine the fuel efficiency of an eco boost engine in weight of Mk1 Golf. The car has been pushed too stringently in all directions to the point further improvement is for the sake of further improvement, but that whole industry sure does generate revenue for someone.I am actually far more concerned about where we might be able to drive our current cars (assuming we keep them) in 10+ and 20+ years time than how the petrol engined cars of the day will look. I have no doubt that at some stage, cars like our current V12 monsters will be outlawed on public roads, certainly in some of the major cities, so the question is will that happen in my lifetime .....
I've been part of a hybrid prototype project for a major auto maker, a proper analysis of petrol 'oil field to wheel' Vs electric 'Nuclear power station to wheel' was more-or-less evens, not forgetting the electric car will need the spend of new battery pack at some point, so no, I'm not a fan of electric cars but in connection I lean towards the research of christopher monckton when it comes to global warming - so both things considered I'm content to burn petrol in anything with a piston engine!
The medium term answer is easy, the agenda is see thru. Petrol will surely be available for the foreseeable, the naritve rightly or wrongly would have spent years brainwashing that global warming is very bad and real so the vast taxation at every angle is appropriate for cars that don't meet future targets.
It needs someone like Trump to break the chain, rewind the stringent regs and create a new set of sensible car regs - this will renergise American car production. A strong leader under Brexit follows suit and break with Euro regs and align with US regs - British and American built cars would command those markets and to compete the Euro bunch would have to follow suit with their regs to allow their own makers to sell in the new US and U.K markets because lowering their regs allows the US and Brit cars into their own markets. A reg sanity check would allow makers of a 6L euro 4 spec car (plenty clean enough) at a volume of say 10k units per annum and hey presto - that means a company like Aston can exist independently because it could rewind to a day when it could afford to design and make its own engine. Something as drastic as that is the only way to rid an Aston of 'that' V8 engine and hault regs which will eventually see the end of brands like Aston.
RobDown said:
Whichever, I'd rather not think of it!
Around here there are regular steam engine fairs, where people bring the old road-rollers etc along. I'm worried in 40 years there will be "petrol fairs" ??
Allow me a bit of realism here.Around here there are regular steam engine fairs, where people bring the old road-rollers etc along. I'm worried in 40 years there will be "petrol fairs" ??
I live and spend my working week in London.
My business is sited in North London,thankfully only 8 minutes by car or tube,or 20 mins by bike.
If I have to visit the centre of London,during the day,on a weekday I take the tube.
The cost of congestion charge and parking makes it a no brainer.
Having said that the cost of public transport is too high also,but that's another topic.
On a summer evening I drive to the West End in the Aston,knowing my "secret" places where "safe" free parking is available.
City driving is a pain especially on weekdays and the standard of driving and the aggression I perceive is far worse than when I was a lad.
Sunday,my day off,is my Aston Day ,and I look forward to it,very much.
I presume many of you that live in large towns or cities face the same situation as I do.
I don't know what fuel resource we shall be using 20/30 years down the line but for city trips it'll probably be electric or hybrid.
Clarkson wrote an article in the Sunday Times a couple of weeks ago saying that Hydrogen was the way to go.
avinalarf said:
I don't know what fuel resource we shall be using 20/30 years down the line but for city trips it'll probably be electric or hybrid.
I will allow you the use of my crystal ball, Steven.
We have seen during recent years, that technical developments occur much faster than had been expected.
Therefore in 20/30 years time, for your trip to the City, you will first speak to a gadget to summon your transport.
A driverless pod will arrive to collect you from your home. You will not need a driving licence and so you can enjoy drinking during the journey. Arriving at your destination (your London club I presume), if perhaps you have enjoyed your trip a little too much, the pod will have a feature that can safely eject you out on to the pavement.
I think I might prefer life, as it is today.
( Save this contribution, and look at it again in 2040. )
Jon39 said:
avinalarf said:
I don't know what fuel resource we shall be using 20/30 years down the line but for city trips it'll probably be electric or hybrid.
I will allow you the use of my crystal ball, Steven.
We have seen during recent years, that technical developments occur much faster than had been expected.
Therefore in 20/30 years time, for your trip to the City, you will first speak to a gadget to summon your transport.
A driverless pod will arrive to collect you from your home. You will not need a driving licence and so you can enjoy drinking during the journey. Arriving at your destination (your London club I presume), if perhaps you have enjoyed your trip a little too much, the pod will have a feature that can safely eject you out on to the pavement.
I think I might prefer life, as it is today.
( Save this contribution, and look at it again in 2040. )
BamfordMike said:
jonby said:
I'm not convinced long term that battery/electric as we know it today is the answer (I guess you aren't either given your phrasing) but as you say, combustion engine cars are going to change beyond all recognition
I am actually far more concerned about where we might be able to drive our current cars (assuming we keep them) in 10+ and 20+ years time than how the petrol engined cars of the day will look. I have no doubt that at some stage, cars like our current V12 monsters will be outlawed on public roads, certainly in some of the major cities, so the question is will that happen in my lifetime .....
The thinking in the auto industry is whilst they know the tech of today is the brick phone, unless they deliver and then surpass the brick phone and then repeat that cycle over and over, you won't ever achieve a smartphone - but for mainstream cars the industry doesn't really know what the smartphone is yet, but legislation (Obama) is forcing unrealistic targets. If crash legislation hadn't saddled car with weight, the targets would be simple - imagine the fuel efficiency of an eco boost engine in weight of Mk1 Golf. The car has been pushed too stringently in all directions to the point further improvement is for the sake of further improvement, but that whole industry sure does generate revenue for someone.I am actually far more concerned about where we might be able to drive our current cars (assuming we keep them) in 10+ and 20+ years time than how the petrol engined cars of the day will look. I have no doubt that at some stage, cars like our current V12 monsters will be outlawed on public roads, certainly in some of the major cities, so the question is will that happen in my lifetime .....
I've been part of a hybrid prototype project for a major auto maker, a proper analysis of petrol 'oil field to wheel' Vs electric 'Nuclear power station to wheel' was more-or-less evens, not forgetting the electric car will need the spend of new battery pack at some point, so no, I'm not a fan of electric cars but in connection I lean towards the research of christopher monckton when it comes to global warming - so both things considered I'm content to burn petrol in anything with a piston engine!
The medium term answer is easy, the agenda is see thru. Petrol will surely be available for the foreseeable, the naritve rightly or wrongly would have spent years brainwashing that global warming is very bad and real so the vast taxation at every angle is appropriate for cars that don't meet future targets.
It needs someone like Trump to break the chain, rewind the stringent regs and create a new set of sensible car regs - this will renergise American car production. A strong leader under Brexit follows suit and break with Euro regs and align with US regs - British and American built cars would command those markets and to compete the Euro bunch would have to follow suit with their regs to allow their own makers to sell in the new US and U.K markets because lowering their regs allows the US and Brit cars into their own markets. A reg sanity check would allow makers of a 6L euro 4 spec car (plenty clean enough) at a volume of say 10k units per annum and hey presto - that means a company like Aston can exist independently because it could rewind to a day when it could afford to design and make its own engine. Something as drastic as that is the only way to rid an Aston of 'that' V8 engine and hault regs which will eventually see the end of brands like Aston.
One of my concerns though is that cities like Manchester may well be at the forefront of banning combustion engine cars from the city centre, regardless of what might be brought in at National level. Presumably cities like London & Paris will only get more stringent rules because there are rarely reversals in those sorts of trends once they start.
Maybe we need one country, somewhere in the world, just for petrolheads - somewhere with no noise or pollution limits, where electric cars are banned and autonomous driving is a dirty word !
jonby said:
Your vision is similar to mine. I am sure those not yet born will snigger at how or why we prefer our tech of today when they look back
Jon's vision is similar to that to be seen in an episode of the film Total Recall,if I remember correctly.As technology evolves expotentially the future could well become dystopian,where the use of Robots affects many jobs and the super " intelligence "of AI overtakes the capacity of mankind to control it.
Alternatively if we are clever enough to harness those technologies to our benefit we may have lots of spare time to indulge our pastimes and leisure activities,If only in a Virtual World.
HBradley said:
Thanks for posting Jon. Did they say this was the final production version? Looks like too much silver foil?!
Both engine bays have an amount of foil wrapped around significant bits. The new engine just has those significant bits at the top front - which probably makes it un-British or something to some. avinalarf said:
jonby said:
Your vision is similar to mine. I am sure those not yet born will snigger at how or why we prefer our tech of today when they look back
Jon's vision is similar to that to be seen in an episode of the film Total Recall,if I remember correctly.As technology evolves expotentially the future could well become dystopian,where the use of Robots affects many jobs and the super " intelligence "of AI overtakes the capacity of mankind to control it.
Alternatively if we are clever enough to harness those technologies to our benefit we may have lots of spare time to indulge our pastimes and leisure activities,If only in a Virtual World.
jonby said:
Your vision is similar to mine. I am sure those not yet born will snigger at how or why we prefer our tech of today when they look back
Indeed, they may well snigger, but then equally I'm sitting here chuckling away just thinking about how extreme the George Orwell world will be for that generation. They will have no idea what it was like to have the "relative" freedoms that we have today. It's bad enough now with basic CCTV and iphone tracking, just imagine it in 20-30 years......"They" will know where you are and exactly what you're doing 24 hours a day.....and by then I'll either be dead or too old to give a f
k 
b
ks to them all I say, lets just enjoy what we have until some jumped up sandle wearing fkwit tries to take it away....!Big Ry said:
bks to them all I say, lets just enjoy what we have until some jumped up sandle wearing fkwit tries to take it away....!
It's OK, when they do, they won't be able to catch us in their top speed restricted pod and our cars will have old fashioned tech they can't communicate with to slow us down !ks to them all I say, lets just enjoy what we have until some jumped up sandle wearing fkwit tries to take it away....!One of my closest mates has a son who turned 17 late last year and has recently passed his driving test. He needs a black box for insurance. My mate was commenting how it would have driven him barmy, remembering how he drove when he first passed his test. Meanwhile his son seems perfectly happy with it - unlike us, he has the tech skills to defeat the box if he wanted to (he's an IT genius), but doesn't have the inclination
It was the final push to my mate getting back into Aston ownership on the basis life is too short......he tried a current Vanquish & DB11, thought they were both amazing............but he promptly bought himself a manual DBS !
jonby said:
avinalarf said:
jonby said:
Your vision is similar to mine. I am sure those not yet born will snigger at how or why we prefer our tech of today when they look back
Jon's vision is similar to that to be seen in an episode of the film Total Recall,if I remember correctly.As technology evolves expotentially the future could well become dystopian,where the use of Robots affects many jobs and the super " intelligence "of AI overtakes the capacity of mankind to control it.
Alternatively if we are clever enough to harness those technologies to our benefit we may have lots of spare time to indulge our pastimes and leisure activities,If only in a Virtual World.
But I can make one up .....such as.....
More leisure time means my Ladyboy business would be in greater demand and then I could afford a new Vanquish Volante.
avinalarf said:
jonby said:
avinalarf said:
jonby said:
Your vision is similar to mine. I am sure those not yet born will snigger at how or why we prefer our tech of today when they look back
Jon's vision is similar to that to be seen in an episode of the film Total Recall,if I remember correctly.As technology evolves expotentially the future could well become dystopian,where the use of Robots affects many jobs and the super " intelligence "of AI overtakes the capacity of mankind to control it.
Alternatively if we are clever enough to harness those technologies to our benefit we may have lots of spare time to indulge our pastimes and leisure activities,If only in a Virtual World.
But I can make one up .....such as.....
More leisure time means my Ladyboy business would be in greater demand and then I could afford a new Vanquish Volante.
BamfordMike said:
It needs someone like Trump to break the chain, rewind the stringent regs and create a new set of sensible car regs - this will renergise American car production. A strong leader under Brexit follows suit and break with Euro regs and align with US regs - British and American built cars would command those markets and to compete the Euro bunch would have to follow suit with their regs to allow their own makers to sell in the new US and U.K markets because lowering their regs allows the US and Brit cars into their own markets. A reg sanity check would allow makers of a 6L euro 4 spec car (plenty clean enough) at a volume of say 10k units per annum and hey presto - that means a company like Aston can exist independently because it could rewind to a day when it could afford to design and make its own engine. Something as drastic as that is the only way to rid an Aston of 'that' V8 engine and hault regs which will eventually see the end of brands like Aston.
Please no. He' take us back to leaded (because it's too difficult for the car industry to keep up with new things like unleaded). The US car industry is making more cars than ever and is keeping up with the demand for more economical car ranges.As many have said the use of cars in the future will change to emission free autonomic. It's already happening. Millenials in the US happily use Uber hybrids, not taxis, and would have no issue with them being autonomic. But they also like weekend driving fun (often in a rented car).
What the industry needs to do is not dream of a world of yesteryear but come up with a sensible way to lobby for exceptions to range targets for manufacturers of 'weekend recreational cars'. As I have said before I think Aston should make fewer, lighter, fun sports cars.
It seems odd that you are saying that 500bhp in a twin turbo package in a car that weighs 1700Kg is Aston's response to an EPA target in the US. They could have decided instead to innovate and lead the pack with a much lighter car with maybe a straight six package that was more economical and had a development path toward hybrid technology as and when.
jonby said:
avinalarf said:
jonby said:
avinalarf said:
jonby said:
Your vision is similar to mine. I am sure those not yet born will snigger at how or why we prefer our tech of today when they look back
Jon's vision is similar to that to be seen in an episode of the film Total Recall,if I remember correctly.As technology evolves expotentially the future could well become dystopian,where the use of Robots affects many jobs and the super " intelligence "of AI overtakes the capacity of mankind to control it.
Alternatively if we are clever enough to harness those technologies to our benefit we may have lots of spare time to indulge our pastimes and leisure activities,If only in a Virtual World.
But I can make one up .....such as.....
More leisure time means my Ladyboy business would be in greater demand and then I could afford a new Vanquish Volante.
I presumed you wanted me to be in jokey mode.
However the subject of where we are going is one of great interest to me.
Over the past few years,and certainly in the not so distant future,we need to take some extremely important decisions,of both a practical and philosophical nature,on what type of society we wish to live in.
Globalisation,the Internet,Robotics,AI and the effects of Climate Change are and will increasingly affect the way in which we live our lives.
Our present governments,unfortunately,are looking for "Old World" solutions instead of forging ahead and embracing the technologies that will shape our destiny.
It is no surprise that populism in the form of e.g.Trump,Le Pen and Brexit are a consequence of poor leadership and lack of vision by those that govern us.
Edited by avinalarf on Thursday 29th June 18:22
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff