AMR clutch and flywheel first impressions
Discussion
My clutch decided to stop working after running probably 150 laps at the Supercar event last month. It had around 20,000 miles on it but had been used fairly assertively both by me and the previous owner.
As can be seen from the above the clutch was very worn indeed. I'd always had in my mind that when the clutch went I'd upgrade to one of the aftermarket options available from the likes of David Appleby engineering and Bamford Rose. I had assumed that AMR would be very expensive but was pleasantly surprised at the £3.2k price for the clutch and flywheel package (fitted inc VAT). This represents a lower price than either of the aftermarket options available. Add to this that my local dealership is only 20 minutes away and the decision was made. Whether this package is 'better' than those available for slightly more money is difficult to say without having driven all of them.
The AMR components certainly look shinier.... According to the Aston Martin technician, the clutch looks similar to the V12 item although didn't say it was the same. I'll let someone more qualified than me make that definitive statement. They also said that the flywheel was different to the V12 and others they had seen.
So far I've only driven the car back from the dealership and my first impressions are that it is very light in feel. It will take some getting used to where the bite point is, but ultimately will make it easier to drive especially on longer runs and in traffic. I haven't spent enough time driving it yet in mixed conditions to make any conclusions about the flywheel, but will post back when I have done in a week or so time.
A
As can be seen from the above the clutch was very worn indeed. I'd always had in my mind that when the clutch went I'd upgrade to one of the aftermarket options available from the likes of David Appleby engineering and Bamford Rose. I had assumed that AMR would be very expensive but was pleasantly surprised at the £3.2k price for the clutch and flywheel package (fitted inc VAT). This represents a lower price than either of the aftermarket options available. Add to this that my local dealership is only 20 minutes away and the decision was made. Whether this package is 'better' than those available for slightly more money is difficult to say without having driven all of them.
The AMR components certainly look shinier.... According to the Aston Martin technician, the clutch looks similar to the V12 item although didn't say it was the same. I'll let someone more qualified than me make that definitive statement. They also said that the flywheel was different to the V12 and others they had seen.
So far I've only driven the car back from the dealership and my first impressions are that it is very light in feel. It will take some getting used to where the bite point is, but ultimately will make it easier to drive especially on longer runs and in traffic. I haven't spent enough time driving it yet in mixed conditions to make any conclusions about the flywheel, but will post back when I have done in a week or so time.
A
Will be interested in how you get on with that. Bite point on my std clutch is very high although not due to wear I'm told as they are self adjusting. I cant say that it's heavy to use though. It certainly takes more concentration to drive smoothly than my 911 which spoils the whole Aston experience a little.
DW.
DW.
I've now had a few runs in the car including an extended drive to the Lake District and back on a mixture of motorway, dual carriageway and A roads.
The clutch is much lighter. I can genuinely say as easy to use as 'insert name of generic family car' clutch. This is great for around town driving and motorway queuing as it saves the left leg a great deal. This does however mean that the biting point is slightly more difficult to find as there is less mechanical feedback through the clutch when you have it. To start with this led to me nearly stalling it once or twice, but I am now used to it.
The revs of the car definitely go down quicker after releasing the accelerator which should notionally give better gear change times. It would be interesting to drive a standard car again and see what the difference is, something I may do with friends soon.
Given the fact I needed a new clutch anyway, I'd say that assuming you plan to keep the car for a while this is a worthwhile purchase. My hope is that it will not need changing again during my ownership although time will tell. If I hadn't needed a new clutch I don't think I would advise people to bother upgrading unless money is no object purely because of the price.
The clutch is much lighter. I can genuinely say as easy to use as 'insert name of generic family car' clutch. This is great for around town driving and motorway queuing as it saves the left leg a great deal. This does however mean that the biting point is slightly more difficult to find as there is less mechanical feedback through the clutch when you have it. To start with this led to me nearly stalling it once or twice, but I am now used to it.
The revs of the car definitely go down quicker after releasing the accelerator which should notionally give better gear change times. It would be interesting to drive a standard car again and see what the difference is, something I may do with friends soon.
Given the fact I needed a new clutch anyway, I'd say that assuming you plan to keep the car for a while this is a worthwhile purchase. My hope is that it will not need changing again during my ownership although time will tell. If I hadn't needed a new clutch I don't think I would advise people to bother upgrading unless money is no object purely because of the price.
V8Andrew said:
the biting point is slightly more difficult to find
Yes, I found similar too, Strange because established organic twinplate upgrades tend to give a wider window of pedal modulation meaning bite point and control of clutch from stationary to slip to fully moving is an improvement / returns better and easier control in all areas. I guess is a result of the different stack height change because the factory cast the spacer into the torque tube forcing the design of AMR kit to be a certain dimension rather than the dimensions being optimised given a free hand. I tried to order another AMR kit today, told out of stock with no due in date.
V8Andrew said:
The AMR components certainly look shinier.... According to the Aston Martin technician, the clutch looks similar to the V12 item although didn't say it was the same. I'll let someone more qualified than me make that definitive statement. They also said that the flywheel was different to the V12 and others they had seen.
It's definitely not the V12 clutch. I have one of those in my grey Vantage (as part of the VelocityAP clutch/flywheel package), and it looks like this:
I've had the AMR twin clutch fitted to my V8V for about two months now.
Although it doesn't remove the occasional clutch smell if you accidentally slip the clutch, the clutch is considerably lighter than the standard AM single plate clutch and hence it's now a joy to drive in slow moving traffic.
The other gains associated with the lighter flywheel are welcome, but not earth shattering.
I'm happy I went for the twin plate rather than simply fitting another single plate version.
911ssc said:
I'm thinking of going the same route when i next get it serviced mid next year , as the fly wheel is lighter do you notice it pick up quicker and does it make it easier to go into first gear ??
Cheers
Ian
I think you'd need to drive a back-to-back single plate and twin plate version to make up your mind IMHO. My two cents is that it is quicker to pick up, but not hugely so. On the question of getting into first, I've not noticed a difference. Cheers
Ian
When I purchased my V8V the clutch was horribly wooden and heavy, it's now lighter than the clutch on my 09 plate Mini Cooper S and the clutch on my 2010 Alfa 159!
911ssc said:
I'm thinking of going the same route when i next get it serviced mid next year , as the fly wheel is lighter do you notice it pick up quicker and does it make it easier to go into first gear ??
Not all lightweight flywheels are the same. In fact, they are quite different if you compare the photos above and that of my BR clutch/flywheel below. I know that mine, combined with revised throttle map and manifolds/cats, has transformed the way the car drives. Throttle response is completely different, so much so that I'm now looking for a throttle peddle mod to facilitate heel & toe now that the engine will respond if I get the inputs right. It's not for everyone but I love it.
911ssc said:
So of the 3 lightweight / twin plate clutch kits ( BR , DA , AMR ) you are saying they are all different ? , if so without causing a debate is one better than the others . I doubt you would have the option to drive back to back all 3 spec so what are the differences ??
Cheers
I don’t think anyone has done the comparison, but I would be happy to donate my car to a 3 way test assuming I could drive the other two too.Cheers
To be fair the latest model of the OE single clutch was a huge improvement over original version. It was like night and day when I changed my 2006 (2005 manufacture) clutch to the OE clutch in 2014.
There are a few cars coming through with 80-100k miles plus on the original clutches, I managed 73k on mine.
So I would hope these twin plate models are nearly lifetime clutches e.g. you fit one and get 150k miles or more out of them. Thing is, few people do high enough mileage or keep the car long enough to report back.
It will be lets see where we are in another 10 years
There are a few cars coming through with 80-100k miles plus on the original clutches, I managed 73k on mine.
So I would hope these twin plate models are nearly lifetime clutches e.g. you fit one and get 150k miles or more out of them. Thing is, few people do high enough mileage or keep the car long enough to report back.
It will be lets see where we are in another 10 years
john ryan said:
You would have to compare a new single plate clutch with a new dual clutch to get a fair impression, because the release load of a worn clutch is significantly higher - this is a characteristic of all diaphragm spring clutches
There's a night and day difference in pedal feel between a twin-plate and single plate clutch. I have the DA/VAP setup in my grey Vantage (the pic I posted above), and the standard setup in my red Vantage. You have to get your foot recalibrated to each clutch when going back and forth between the two cars. I'm not sure how many miles are on my red Vantage's clutch, but I've driven lots of Vantages and the single-plate clutch pedal feels incredibly heavy in comparison to the twin-plate clutch's pedal feel.I do long distance drives in my grey Vantage several times a year, including rallies and track days. My hip and knee are far happier with the lighter clutch pedal of the dual-plate clutch since having it installed. For that relief alone, it's worthwhile to me.
I haven't driven the BR or AMR clutches yet, but I'm most likely going to install the AMR version in my red Vantage when the current one gives out. I have nothing against my DA/VAP clutch by any means - the choice of AMR if I go that route is so I can give that direct comparison between the two.
Quick thing to remember is that the flywheel weight difference is probably negligible between the AMR and 4.7L flywheels. Each of those is about 1 lb lighter than the 4.3L's flywheel. The AMR clutch is significantly lighter, though.
telum01 said:
There's a night and day difference in pedal feel between a twin-plate and single plate clutch. I have the DA/VAP setup in my grey Vantage (the pic I posted above), and the standard setup in my red Vantage. You have to get your foot recalibrated to each clutch when going back and forth between the two cars. I'm not sure how many miles are on my red Vantage's clutch, but I've driven lots of Vantages and the single-plate clutch pedal feels incredibly heavy in comparison to the twin-plate clutch's pedal feel.
I do long distance drives in my grey Vantage several times a year, including rallies and track days. My hip and knee are far happier with the lighter clutch pedal of the dual-plate clutch since having it installed. For that relief alone, it's worthwhile to me.
I haven't driven the BR or AMR clutches yet, but I'm most likely going to install the AMR version in my red Vantage when the current one gives out. I have nothing against my DA/VAP clutch by any means - the choice of AMR if I go that route is so I can give that direct comparison between the two.
I do long distance drives in my grey Vantage several times a year, including rallies and track days. My hip and knee are far happier with the lighter clutch pedal of the dual-plate clutch since having it installed. For that relief alone, it's worthwhile to me.
I haven't driven the BR or AMR clutches yet, but I'm most likely going to install the AMR version in my red Vantage when the current one gives out. I have nothing against my DA/VAP clutch by any means - the choice of AMR if I go that route is so I can give that direct comparison between the two.
Dont forget the OE single plate clutch spec changed 2 (or 3) times during its lifetime. Dates of the clutch spec revisions are on here somewhere, 2010 sounds familiar
So if you had an early Vantage on its original clutch it was the very early heaviest one. The later one was much lighter, like a regular car (comparing to our Volvo for instance)
The price delta now, between an OE single plate and and aftermarket upgrade INCLUDING lighter flywheel, is just a few hundred pound more, so given the choice It would make sense to go for the twin plate.
So if you had an early Vantage on its original clutch it was the very early heaviest one. The later one was much lighter, like a regular car (comparing to our Volvo for instance)
The price delta now, between an OE single plate and and aftermarket upgrade INCLUDING lighter flywheel, is just a few hundred pound more, so given the choice It would make sense to go for the twin plate.
[quote=telum01]
There's a night and day difference in pedal feel between a twin-plate and single plate clutch. ......... I'm not sure how many miles are on my red Vantage's clutch.........
This is my point. I'm not doubting your assessment, but your comparison is between a new twin plate and an old, possibly
early spec, single plate. I would like to know the comparative release loads, but in view of the small cost delta I guess I might elect for the extra capacity of the twin plate.
BTW, I do appreciate and use your website; it's a great resource.
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