Andy Palmer "launched an investigation" re "Works"
Discussion
Jon39 said:
Thank you for your explanations, Adrian.
Both of my 1960s cars are all original, so hopefully the DVLA won't be feeling my collar.
This topic seems to be about some DB cars built with shorter, non standard chassis mainly for competition use, although in those days, driving on the road to circuits was fairly common, so would have been road registered.
It seems to me, rather extreme for there to be problems arising now, because I think the work in this case, was done by the original manufacturer of the standard car.
There are other short chassis cars. The successful short chassis Audi Quattro rally cars come to mind. They are noticeably shorter than the original car.
The trouble is it is being done still. Cars like Audi Quattro UR SWB were made by the factory. If not a Q. Cars like Gartrac Escorts were Q when made. There was a good reason for all of this and it was to stop cut and shuts and unsafe mods. Can't blame DVLA for trying to protect the consumer.Both of my 1960s cars are all original, so hopefully the DVLA won't be feeling my collar.
This topic seems to be about some DB cars built with shorter, non standard chassis mainly for competition use, although in those days, driving on the road to circuits was fairly common, so would have been road registered.
It seems to me, rather extreme for there to be problems arising now, because I think the work in this case, was done by the original manufacturer of the standard car.
There are other short chassis cars. The successful short chassis Audi Quattro rally cars come to mind. They are noticeably shorter than the original car.
Jon39 said:
This topic seems to be about some DB cars built with shorter, non standard chassis mainly for competition use, although in those days, driving on the road to circuits was fairly common, so would have been road registered.
It seems to me, rather extreme for there to be problems arising now, because I think the work in this case, was done by the original manufacturer of the standard car.
Not quite.It seems to me, rather extreme for there to be problems arising now, because I think the work in this case, was done by the original manufacturer of the standard car.
The problem is over Aston NOW taking large amounts of money to make "replicas" of those shorter cars from original normal-length DBs...
SDB660 said:
Regarding modified classics in general, DVLA has published their draft guidance re cars that have substantial changes. Major implications, especially for vehicles modified but not notified to DVLA previously. Literally, every Zagato, DB4 GT, and Volante/Convertible recreation since 1983 created from a standard DB4/5/6 saloon, that has not gone through DVLA process is going to have issues as they have either had 5 inches taken from chassis or have a modified chassis.
Have created an article here that has links to DVLA source and covers, I believe, what is happening. Please share as it looks like within 20 months DVLA will have a good handle on their car database and all classic car owners that have mods need to be aware.
What is most worrying is that the proposal, to be implemented next year, is for car owners to declare yearly that their car has not had "substantial change", I believe within 8 point rule, since 1988. If you lie, then the MOT station may be required to report, I believe, cars not as described.
Loads of Aston Martin cars may be affected by this scenario.
Umm there are quite a few post 1988 V8 engined Aston Martins that have had there engine capacity and power output significantly increased but retain original engine number and road registration as was applied when built as 5340cc cars, are you saying that this means all 6.3 and 7.0 litre conversions should be on a Q plate now or from now on ?Have created an article here that has links to DVLA source and covers, I believe, what is happening. Please share as it looks like within 20 months DVLA will have a good handle on their car database and all classic car owners that have mods need to be aware.
What is most worrying is that the proposal, to be implemented next year, is for car owners to declare yearly that their car has not had "substantial change", I believe within 8 point rule, since 1988. If you lie, then the MOT station may be required to report, I believe, cars not as described.
Loads of Aston Martin cars may be affected by this scenario.
Seven-6-12 said:
Umm there are quite a few post 1988 V8 engined Aston Martins that have had there engine capacity and power output significantly increased but retain original engine number and road registration as was applied when built as 5340cc cars, are you saying that this means all 6.3 and 7.0 litre conversions should be on a Q plate now or from now on ?
No. That's not foul of the 8pt rule, by a long chalk.Modifying the structure is.
Seven-6-12 said:
SDB660 said:
Regarding modified classics in general, DVLA has published their draft guidance re cars that have substantial changes. Major implications, especially for vehicles modified but not notified to DVLA previously. Literally, every Zagato, DB4 GT, and Volante/Convertible recreation since 1983 created from a standard DB4/5/6 saloon, that has not gone through DVLA process is going to have issues as they have either had 5 inches taken from chassis or have a modified chassis.
Have created an article here that has links to DVLA source and covers, I believe, what is happening. Please share as it looks like within 20 months DVLA will have a good handle on their car database and all classic car owners that have mods need to be aware.
What is most worrying is that the proposal, to be implemented next year, is for car owners to declare yearly that their car has not had "substantial change", I believe within 8 point rule, since 1988. If you lie, then the MOT station may be required to report, I believe, cars not as described.
Loads of Aston Martin cars may be affected by this scenario.
Umm there are quite a few post 1988 V8 engined Aston Martins that have had there engine capacity and power output significantly increased but retain original engine number and road registration as was applied when built as 5340cc cars, are you saying that this means all 6.3 and 7.0 litre conversions should be on a Q plate now or from now on ?Have created an article here that has links to DVLA source and covers, I believe, what is happening. Please share as it looks like within 20 months DVLA will have a good handle on their car database and all classic car owners that have mods need to be aware.
What is most worrying is that the proposal, to be implemented next year, is for car owners to declare yearly that their car has not had "substantial change", I believe within 8 point rule, since 1988. If you lie, then the MOT station may be required to report, I believe, cars not as described.
Loads of Aston Martin cars may be affected by this scenario.
SDB660 said:
Vanin said:
"Substantial" is a wonderful word that lawyers can manipulate.
Having a "power to weight ratio of more than 15% in excess of its original design, unless such a modification took place before 1988".
So in reality a standard DB5/6 four litre puts out around 240 bhp rather than the 285 suggested in the brochures.
!5% of 240 is 36 so a 4.2 litre conversion plus fuel injection/cam/webers may take this well over 300 hp or over 25% increase
Originality seems to be king again! When they really tighten up it will be ZF boxes only, standard brakes, crossply tyres and positive earth!
Seems so re originality.Having a "power to weight ratio of more than 15% in excess of its original design, unless such a modification took place before 1988".
So in reality a standard DB5/6 four litre puts out around 240 bhp rather than the 285 suggested in the brochures.
!5% of 240 is 36 so a 4.2 litre conversion plus fuel injection/cam/webers may take this well over 300 hp or over 25% increase
Originality seems to be king again! When they really tighten up it will be ZF boxes only, standard brakes, crossply tyres and positive earth!
Take your point re lawyers, but as well as "substantial" there are other rules. For example, please check out "reconstructed classic vehicles" on DVLA website. This means that every Aston Martin with a retrofitted twin plug head (as in many GT/Racing/Zagato conversions) are facing a Q as just one example from one subset of a low volume manufacturer's back catalogue. Many makes will be facing the similar issues.
Seven-6-12 said:
SDB660 said:
Vanin said:
"Substantial" is a wonderful word that lawyers can manipulate.
Having a "power to weight ratio of more than 15% in excess of its original design, unless such a modification took place before 1988".
So in reality a standard DB5/6 four litre puts out around 240 bhp rather than the 285 suggested in the brochures.
!5% of 240 is 36 so a 4.2 litre conversion plus fuel injection/cam/webers may take this well over 300 hp or over 25% increase
Originality seems to be king again! When they really tighten up it will be ZF boxes only, standard brakes, crossply tyres and positive earth!
Seems so re originality.Having a "power to weight ratio of more than 15% in excess of its original design, unless such a modification took place before 1988".
So in reality a standard DB5/6 four litre puts out around 240 bhp rather than the 285 suggested in the brochures.
!5% of 240 is 36 so a 4.2 litre conversion plus fuel injection/cam/webers may take this well over 300 hp or over 25% increase
Originality seems to be king again! When they really tighten up it will be ZF boxes only, standard brakes, crossply tyres and positive earth!
Take your point re lawyers, but as well as "substantial" there are other rules. For example, please check out "reconstructed classic vehicles" on DVLA website. This means that every Aston Martin with a retrofitted twin plug head (as in many GT/Racing/Zagato conversions) are facing a Q as just one example from one subset of a low volume manufacturer's back catalogue. Many makes will be facing the similar issues.
Jon39 said:
I only have a sketchy knowledge of this topic, but the internet is awash with discussions, going back several years.
Seems to be all about modified cars, and the regulations have arrived here from Europe.
Some owners of cars old enough to be exempt from 'road tax' (and possibly also MoT), have received letters from the DVLA requiring proof that almost the whole car is original and unaltered. Changes or lack of proof then involves their points system. Not enough points and they then withdraw the registration mark and issue a Q registration. Not much demand for the car after that.
Is my understanding correct ?
Not quite.Seems to be all about modified cars, and the regulations have arrived here from Europe.
Some owners of cars old enough to be exempt from 'road tax' (and possibly also MoT), have received letters from the DVLA requiring proof that almost the whole car is original and unaltered. Changes or lack of proof then involves their points system. Not enough points and they then withdraw the registration mark and issue a Q registration. Not much demand for the car after that.
Is my understanding correct ?
Yes the reg number will be withdrawn, but it will only be replaced by a Q-plate IF the cars then passes IVA, which it won't without lots of modernisation mods.
So, yes, only value left as a parts car or as an expensive piece of yard art.
So what does this mean with some kit cars?......... I know there are some masquerading (is the correct?) as Jaguars, whilst being cobra replicas with new chassis, and I suspect they will fall into the 'not correctly registered' basket. I have a kit car (Rickman Ranger) for which the donor vehicle was a Ford Escort, it IS registered as a Rickman Ranger, so DVLA are aware of the change. When the change occurred, I don't know as I didn't build it (but I guess DVLA SHOULD know?, and whether it retained the donor reg number, or was given another of that age, again DVLA SHOULD know. Where does that leave me, if DVLA want me to 'rectify'matters? At minimum £20 for a new set of plates (why should I pay?). I realise this is minor compared to some, but it makes you wonder how DVLA expect to handle this.
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff