Buying a Vantage privately
Discussion
I must say that if I want to change my db9 I will give Simon a shout to see if he can do business with me. I really am surprised at the level of scrutiny regarding margins being posted here. For a dealer to be upfront and honest about the margins they play with is a big tick in my book.
Its all well and good arguing over Vat and margins of warranty policies but to those who are posting these questions, do you run a business and understand the cost of just keeping the lights on? Do you have any understanding of business rates, the new pension rules for employees, increases in NI employers have to pay, lets not get into gdpr, licence fees for kerridge (I guess you use it), building maintenance and so on. A few £k profit on a car I do wonder how they make a profit on trade in deals.
Its all well and good arguing over Vat and margins of warranty policies but to those who are posting these questions, do you run a business and understand the cost of just keeping the lights on? Do you have any understanding of business rates, the new pension rules for employees, increases in NI employers have to pay, lets not get into gdpr, licence fees for kerridge (I guess you use it), building maintenance and so on. A few £k profit on a car I do wonder how they make a profit on trade in deals.
qwick69 said:
Hi Simon
I am a Porsche driver , bought the Panamera turbo from the “shop” next to you .
After many issues , I wish I had gone for the rapide from you !!
I know I would have had a few issues with a rapide , but I know your guys would have dealt with the issues efficiently ( as you have with my Aston’s )
Got to say I’ve had 3 cars (all be it S/H) from the shop next door and the way they have dealt with any issues either through extended warranty or not has been exemplary. I am a Porsche driver , bought the Panamera turbo from the “shop” next to you .
After many issues , I wish I had gone for the rapide from you !!
I know I would have had a few issues with a rapide , but I know your guys would have dealt with the issues efficiently ( as you have with my Aston’s )
Sorry you had a less than good experience with the Panny.
DW
qwick69 said:
Hi Simon
I am a Porsche driver , bought the Panamera turbo from the “shop” next to you .
After many issues , I wish I had gone for the rapide from you !!
I know I would have had a few issues with a rapide , but I know your guys would have dealt with the issues efficiently ( as you have with my Aston’s )
It’s amazing how the customer service is like chalk and cheese between the two brands.
Pity you didn’t have that GT 8 when I got the Porsche :-)
I had 2 x Pan Turbos as my wedding cars back in 2010. I got married in Scotland so had to drive one of them (Porsche Edinburgh very kindly supplied the other) 500 miles to the wedding venue. I’ve never forgotten the last 100 miles of that drive. What a car, it’s an incredible beast and a much quicker point to point machine than the Rapide. Unfortunately though I look back at my wedding pics now and the cars ruin them, they are just so ugly.I am a Porsche driver , bought the Panamera turbo from the “shop” next to you .
After many issues , I wish I had gone for the rapide from you !!
I know I would have had a few issues with a rapide , but I know your guys would have dealt with the issues efficiently ( as you have with my Aston’s )
It’s amazing how the customer service is like chalk and cheese between the two brands.
Pity you didn’t have that GT 8 when I got the Porsche :-)
Every year as we approach school prom/summer wedding season I get a steady stream of folks from next door chapping on my door asking to borrow our Rapide demo. They could use a Panamera, but they want the Rapide because it’s just special.
Let me know when you want a go in one and I’ll lend you our demo for a weekend
soofsayer said:
I must say that if I want to change my db9 I will give Simon a shout to see if he can do business with me. I really am surprised at the level of scrutiny regarding margins being posted here. For a dealer to be upfront and honest about the margins they play with is a big tick in my book.
Its all well and good arguing over Vat and margins of warranty policies but to those who are posting these questions, do you run a business and understand the cost of just keeping the lights on? Do you have any understanding of business rates, the new pension rules for employees, increases in NI employers have to pay, lets not get into gdpr, licence fees for kerridge (I guess you use it), building maintenance and so on. A few £k profit on a car I do wonder how they make a profit on trade in deals.
It’s OK I’m not offended but thanks for the supportive words. Happy to explain as much as I can. Lots of my peers think I’ve been brave being so open on PH, but I hope I’ve helped dispell some of the myths and old wives tales about dealerships, the way we operate and the margins we make.Its all well and good arguing over Vat and margins of warranty policies but to those who are posting these questions, do you run a business and understand the cost of just keeping the lights on? Do you have any understanding of business rates, the new pension rules for employees, increases in NI employers have to pay, lets not get into gdpr, licence fees for kerridge (I guess you use it), building maintenance and so on. A few £k profit on a car I do wonder how they make a profit on trade in deals.
At Cambridge we have doubled our overheads in the last 4 years since I joined the business. Mainly due to the fact we've grown our headcount from 9 people to 20 in that time in order to improve our service and grow the business. People are expensive and we have had to significantly ramp up our business to pay for it, hence the 3 x limited edition cars we created, a trebling of our used car stock holding and a big push to get more work through our workshop. Our turnover has nearly trebled in this period and we are in much better financial shape than we were in 2013.
The overheads you’ve mentioned are as I’m sure you know, a tiny fraction of the costs involved in running a business. The list of costs covering anything from insurance policies to cleaning the building every day is extensive. I’m not pleading poverty, we are a profitable business in the context of our industry and we have reinvested some of the money in new kit. For example last year we bought a state of the art new wheel balancer and tyre machine at a combined cost of £30k (+VAT!), new laptops for every member of the team and a new coffee machine for customers at £3.5k. We will keep investing in our people and our facilities.
For me, the most satisfying part of this journey has been seeing our team grow & develop. Great people deliver great service and we are really seeing the results over the last year with a string of awards.
I bought my 2006 V8V privately last September. I was looking at both private & dealers & this one came up & ticked most boxes. I did pay for an inspection at McGurks though & because this found no issues I had the confidence to go ahead with the sale. I looked at a few Vantages in non specialist dealers & generally they were quite tatty.
I must say though that I found specialist dealer & even main dealer prices are not a huge amount more than what some cars are advertised for privately. AM Newcastle have an '06 model in for around £3k more than I paid for mine. It has done more miles & I haven't seen it but it looks very nice & comes with 1 year AM warranty which doesn't seem unreasonable given the protection buying from a main dealer should give.
I think it depends how risk adverse you are, I've bought quite a few cars over the years, a mix of dealer & private & touch wood I've never had problems with any of them.
The main thing is to do your homework & trust your instinct, take a friend for a second opinion so you don't let you're heart rule your head.
I'm loving my Aston Martin, I've dreamed of owning one since I was a child & saw the DB5 in Goldfinger :-)
I must say though that I found specialist dealer & even main dealer prices are not a huge amount more than what some cars are advertised for privately. AM Newcastle have an '06 model in for around £3k more than I paid for mine. It has done more miles & I haven't seen it but it looks very nice & comes with 1 year AM warranty which doesn't seem unreasonable given the protection buying from a main dealer should give.
I think it depends how risk adverse you are, I've bought quite a few cars over the years, a mix of dealer & private & touch wood I've never had problems with any of them.
The main thing is to do your homework & trust your instinct, take a friend for a second opinion so you don't let you're heart rule your head.
I'm loving my Aston Martin, I've dreamed of owning one since I was a child & saw the DB5 in Goldfinger :-)
We hear more on AM PH about the activities at Cambridge, than any of the other dealers.
Clearly very dedicated people and who also display rare innovation, thinking of their own special edition models.
Interesting to be told about some of the difficult business arithmetic involved in running a motor dealership.
It is a sector that I have never been tempted to invest in, partly because of the huge overheads involved, and slim margins.
We only have to think about the value of vehicles in motor dealer showrooms and on forecourts, often steadily going down in value, then imagine how much that idle stock costs to finance.
During the last recession, we witnessed more than one new car dealer chain meet a sticky end.
I don't have knowledge, but just looking around, there is probably pressure on dealers from the manufacturers, to spend vast sums on premises improvements to meet the latest corporate image.
Not easy, but it looks as though Simon and his team do a great job, and are even happy to spend time communicating with us.
ds666 said:
I'm just looking to buy an Aston , not pay for someone's coffee machine ...
I've answered every point you have raised constructively, no need for sarcastic remarks, I wouldn't do that to you and would appreciate the same courtesy?As a result of that investment can now serve hot drinks to a coffee shop standard, much better than our old machine.
Simon Lane said:
Hope this sheds some light on the black art of motor retail.
Nearly as mystifying as motor insurance 
Simon,
Your honesty is a breath of fresh air although the figures come as no surprise. I look after a substantial privately owned volume dealership locally and the margins are so poor I really do wonder why they bother.
On another point mentioned earlier.
I do appreciate the majority of clients will want to come and view the car but the official website photography is absolutely appalling. It really is time AML had a good look around and set some seriously better standards.
An example.
Keep up the good work.
Nick
Simon Lane said:
I've answered every point you have raised constructively, no need for sarcastic remarks, I wouldn't do that to you and would appreciate the same courtesy?
As a result of that investment can now serve hot drinks to a coffee shop standard, much better than our old machine.
I'm not sure if you are serious As a result of that investment can now serve hot drinks to a coffee shop standard, much better than our old machine.
However if you re-read your posts , apart from stating it is possible to buy privately your subsequent very lengthy posts have turned into an advert for why you should buy from a dealer ( specifically you) and why a dealer's mark up is justified . They have added nothing to my question about buying privately . I understand the difference in pricing ( I commented on this earlier ) between private and dealer .
Fortunately I have had some relevant answers from other PH'ers both on this forum and pm's, who have experience of private purchases and I thank them for their help .
Start your own thread
ds666 said:
I'm not sure if you are serious
However if you re-read your posts , apart from stating it is possible to buy privately your subsequent very lengthy posts have turned into an advert for why you should buy from a dealer ( specifically you) and why a dealer's mark up is justified . They have added nothing to my question about buying privately . I understand the difference in pricing ( I commented on this earlier ) between private and dealer .
Fortunately I have had some relevant answers from other PH'ers both on this forum and pm's, who have experience of private purchases and I thank them for their help .
Start your own thread
Read the "Clutch issue" thread if you want to know why to buy from a dealer. However if you re-read your posts , apart from stating it is possible to buy privately your subsequent very lengthy posts have turned into an advert for why you should buy from a dealer ( specifically you) and why a dealer's mark up is justified . They have added nothing to my question about buying privately . I understand the difference in pricing ( I commented on this earlier ) between private and dealer .
Fortunately I have had some relevant answers from other PH'ers both on this forum and pm's, who have experience of private purchases and I thank them for their help .
Start your own thread
Good luck.
ds666 said:
Start your own thread
That's not a bad idea Simon - (I and many others on here I'm sure) have found your comments quite interesting, as well as following the development of the three specials. There's a very long running and popular thread on the General Gassing section of the forum (something like "ask a Salesman anything you like". Maybe we could have the same here?AMDBSVNick said:
Read the "Clutch issue" thread if you want to know why to buy from a dealer.
Also recently, admittedly very rare, the case of the brand new engine being fitted soon after purchase, by the main dealer.
If that had been a private purchase, then maybe a £20,000 unexpected cost.
Simon Lane said:
We pay VAT on the gross margin i.e. difference between purchase and sale price. All other costs are ex VAT. Warranty cost has no VAT as its an insurance product so it has Insurance Premium Tax which we can't claim back. All other example costs I quoted above were ex VAT. Hope that helps, doing my best to avoid industry jargon!
Thanks for the clarificstion.Simon, your input and detailed knowledge is very much appreciated by myself and many others I’m sure. Whilst there are both dealers and private sales, then people have a choice. You’ve been brave to stick your head above the parapet and there’s obviously always going to be a few who take a shot. I’m happy we all have a choice, and if I feel the need for a fancy coffee, then I’ll head your way. Keep up the good work !!
AMDBSVNick said:
Read the "Clutch issue" thread if you want to know why to buy from a dealer.
Good luck.
With respect though, on the other hand couldn't you buy privately, save 10k and, if the clutch does immediately fail, forget the stressful conversations and just have the car recovered to a specialist. Whereupon you hand over 2.5k and get the clutch sorted. Good luck.
If you were saying that all cars taken into dealer had a new clutch as a matter of course I could follow the reasoning. But that's not the case; the dealer sold a car with a clutch about to fail. I'm not saying that was knowingly, but that's what happened. I agree with the guy who said that's a wear and tear issue and the dealer could legitimately refuse to fix it. The reason they didn't is for "reputation" issues. However at that point you're effectively throwing yourself on another man's benevolence and squeezing for something you're not entitled to. That is all it is.
Fact of the matter is that dealers spend 2.5k on a car on average and charge you 10k more than you could have bought it for yourself.
There comes a point where there is value - the engine failure case mentioned above. However you could be run over when you cross the road. It happens. People have to live with remote risks all the time. Granted, if I have a 20k engine failure I may well be seen buying in the dealerships for a decade until I got my balls back.
If you can afford to buy in dealerships I'm pleased for you. If I could I would. And I'd drive a v12 not a v8. Fact is I can't justify it so I look to find the value and retain it.
I dont think private sellers are buying at trade prices are they? usually its somewhere in between. If the seller is willing to accept trade price, usually they have done already and saved the hassle of a private sale.
Usually private sellers are hanging out for better than dealer offer, so its a negotiation to get somewhere in between
So you maybe you save £5-6k and have no warranty, take the sellers word for everything.
Last time I traded my car in, it needed paint to bonnet/doors/front, wheel refurb, new door module, service and warranty before the dealer could sell it. They had £8.5k on it when it was advertised a few weeks later. I was happy to get trade price without the hassle of preparing the car myself and dealing with private buyers. I would not have got what the dealer sold the car for, and cost to me for the paint/service/wheels would no doubt be more than it cost the dealer.
There are pros n cons of both ways of purchasing, and you pay a few grand more at the dealer for the perceived piece of mind and less hassle....
Usually private sellers are hanging out for better than dealer offer, so its a negotiation to get somewhere in between
So you maybe you save £5-6k and have no warranty, take the sellers word for everything.
Last time I traded my car in, it needed paint to bonnet/doors/front, wheel refurb, new door module, service and warranty before the dealer could sell it. They had £8.5k on it when it was advertised a few weeks later. I was happy to get trade price without the hassle of preparing the car myself and dealing with private buyers. I would not have got what the dealer sold the car for, and cost to me for the paint/service/wheels would no doubt be more than it cost the dealer.
There are pros n cons of both ways of purchasing, and you pay a few grand more at the dealer for the perceived piece of mind and less hassle....
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