AML - Stock Market Listing
Discussion
soofsayer said:
Well done you.
Please pm me your lottery numbers for tomorrow.
Please pm me your lottery numbers for tomorrow.
I don't like the odds on the lottery. I haven't been a trader by profession for a long time and never in equities but when you watch a stock/bond/commodity/FX price closely over a period of time opportunities do arise that give you an almost free option on a significant upside. I saw the Aston price as one of these given it was bouncing off almost all time lows and technical support with the likelyhood of positive news at any time. Away from the Jordan Belfort-lite trading being discussed 
, it's good news overall, with a tinge of sadness about the 'lean' approach meaning redundancies (we all know the drill when a firm talks about making efficiencies and savings). As a partnership, the lineage makes more sense than the Red Bull one did. Racing Point use AMG engines and under that umbrella, it's a better fit than the current arrangement where Aston sponsored Red Bulls use Honda power units.
Stroll's history is for elevating luxury brands, rather than asset stripping them, and he's more of an enthusiast for classic cars than a lot of businessmen are. It ought to be positive news, but I'm sure there's some glass half empty observers out there.
A factory Aston F1 team, in the year that F1 cars look utterly radical - Stirling Green with AMR stripes... winner. A friend of mine works at Racing Point F1, it'll be interesting to hear how things progress. I know a few chaps on PH follow F1, so will know the story of how Racing Point came into being, but the plan all along was that 2020 would be the year that Stroll's investment started reaping benefits, for the one team on the grid that in its previous guises (Jordan and Force India) punched way above its weight given the budget it operated on.
Interesting, and dare I say it, exciting times. The nay sayers whom solely judge the quality of Aston Martin products based on the current share price at the time, might have to find something else to nitpick...
, it's good news overall, with a tinge of sadness about the 'lean' approach meaning redundancies (we all know the drill when a firm talks about making efficiencies and savings). As a partnership, the lineage makes more sense than the Red Bull one did. Racing Point use AMG engines and under that umbrella, it's a better fit than the current arrangement where Aston sponsored Red Bulls use Honda power units. Stroll's history is for elevating luxury brands, rather than asset stripping them, and he's more of an enthusiast for classic cars than a lot of businessmen are. It ought to be positive news, but I'm sure there's some glass half empty observers out there.
A factory Aston F1 team, in the year that F1 cars look utterly radical - Stirling Green with AMR stripes... winner. A friend of mine works at Racing Point F1, it'll be interesting to hear how things progress. I know a few chaps on PH follow F1, so will know the story of how Racing Point came into being, but the plan all along was that 2020 would be the year that Stroll's investment started reaping benefits, for the one team on the grid that in its previous guises (Jordan and Force India) punched way above its weight given the budget it operated on.
Interesting, and dare I say it, exciting times. The nay sayers whom solely judge the quality of Aston Martin products based on the current share price at the time, might have to find something else to nitpick...
Two comments
1. It feels like the V6 hybrid engine is being delayed (mid 20s). But I think that’s needed for DBX (it can’t stay with a thirsty V8 indefinitely). Maybe AML will need to find a hybrid engine to buy in?
2. Completely unrelated. I associate the sterling green/yellow colour scheme with the switch to Total sponsorship (albeit ofc green has historically been the British racing colour). I think the Total contract ends soon- if it’s not renewed will AMR still use green/yellow?
1. It feels like the V6 hybrid engine is being delayed (mid 20s). But I think that’s needed for DBX (it can’t stay with a thirsty V8 indefinitely). Maybe AML will need to find a hybrid engine to buy in?
2. Completely unrelated. I associate the sterling green/yellow colour scheme with the switch to Total sponsorship (albeit ofc green has historically been the British racing colour). I think the Total contract ends soon- if it’s not renewed will AMR still use green/yellow?
I can’t see how Aston can develop a hybrid on their own....would be hugely expensive.
The scale of the capital injection is interesting....clearly things were worse than was made out before Xmas. Not sure what’s going on with Valkyrie....someone I used to work with had one on order and I know has cancelled it which has surprised me as he thought it was the biggest thing since the F1. Delayed and perhaps scaled back in ambition ? Which seems to be the theme across the board.
The scale of the capital injection is interesting....clearly things were worse than was made out before Xmas. Not sure what’s going on with Valkyrie....someone I used to work with had one on order and I know has cancelled it which has surprised me as he thought it was the biggest thing since the F1. Delayed and perhaps scaled back in ambition ? Which seems to be the theme across the board.
Cheib said:
I can’t see how Aston can develop a hybrid on their own....would be hugely expensive.
The scale of the capital injection is interesting....clearly things were worse than was made out before Xmas. Not sure what’s going on with Valkyrie....someone I used to work with had one on order and I know has cancelled it which has surprised me as he thought it was the biggest thing since the F1. Delayed and perhaps scaled back in ambition ? Which seems to be the theme across the board.
Yep, I wonder whether they will end up in a tech partnership with someone like Geeley in order to develop the hybrid engine. Going to be difficult to do it solo The scale of the capital injection is interesting....clearly things were worse than was made out before Xmas. Not sure what’s going on with Valkyrie....someone I used to work with had one on order and I know has cancelled it which has surprised me as he thought it was the biggest thing since the F1. Delayed and perhaps scaled back in ambition ? Which seems to be the theme across the board.
On Valkyrie I don’t think anything has changed. They originally had a buyer who was happy to have a pre-production car (and that was why there was talk of one being delivered in 19Q4). But AML decided that didn’t really work. Hence the timeline remains cars being delivered later this year (and Red Bull continue to work on the Valkyrie).
I know of three people with “cancelled” orders. But AML seem to have had no problem finding new buyers (heck if I won the lottery I’d buy one - it’s shaping up to be epic!)
NFC 85 Vette said:
Racing Point use AMG engines and under that umbrella, it's a better fit than the current arrangement where Aston sponsored Red Bulls use Honda power units.
Stroll's history is for elevating luxury brands, rather than asset stripping them, and he's more of an enthusiast for classic cars than a lot of businessmen are. It ought to be positive news, but I'm sure there's some glass half empty observers out there.
A factory Aston F1 team, in the year that F1 cars look utterly radical - Stirling Green with AMR stripes... winner. A friend of mine works at Racing Point F1, it'll be interesting to hear how things progress. I know a few chaps on PH follow F1, so will know the story of how Racing Point came into being, but the plan all along was that 2020 would be the year that Stroll's investment started reaping benefits, for the one team on the grid that in its previous guises (Jordan and Force India) punched way above its weight given the budget it operated on.
You make a good point about the Racing Point engine supplier. I always thought the Aston sponsorship of Red Bull was a little confusing. My only problem with Racing Point becoming the Aston F1 racing team is that it is unlikely to rise rapidly from the middle/back of the field and noone wants to see an Aston losing all the time. Having said that it doesn't seem to have done Mclaren much damage in the road car space.Stroll's history is for elevating luxury brands, rather than asset stripping them, and he's more of an enthusiast for classic cars than a lot of businessmen are. It ought to be positive news, but I'm sure there's some glass half empty observers out there.
A factory Aston F1 team, in the year that F1 cars look utterly radical - Stirling Green with AMR stripes... winner. A friend of mine works at Racing Point F1, it'll be interesting to hear how things progress. I know a few chaps on PH follow F1, so will know the story of how Racing Point came into being, but the plan all along was that 2020 would be the year that Stroll's investment started reaping benefits, for the one team on the grid that in its previous guises (Jordan and Force India) punched way above its weight given the budget it operated on.
Bobajobbob said:
You make a good point about the Racing Point engine supplier. I always thought the Aston sponsorship of Red Bull was a little confusing. My only problem with Racing Point becoming the Aston F1 racing team is that it is unlikely to rise rapidly from the middle/back of the field and noone wants to see an Aston losing all the time. Having said that it doesn't seem to have done Mclaren much damage in the road car space.
While they finished 7th in the WCC last season, the improvement in performance later in the season (and the points haul) highlighted that the R&D budget afforded following Stroll's takeover was starting to reap rewards (they don't have access to Mercedes and Ferrari levels of cash, but it's vastly more than during the Force India days, and there's some clever people there who've always developed decent cars on a relative shoestring budget). It was accepted at the time that performance improvements wouldn't be visible for up to 18 months after the takeover, so I'd quietly confidently predict this season will see a more quantifiable improvement.They're not going to be title contenders, but if the upward trend in performance carries through into this season, they're likely to be harassing Alpha Tauri, and perhaps even Renault (for all the boasting Renault has done over the winter with regard to its engine, the chassis has been lacking for a few years).
The elephant in the room is that 2021 sees the whole formula turned on its head with regard to technical regulations. The larger teams with bigger R&D budgets would be expected to have the resource to develop a 2020 and 2021 car in tandem - the smaller teams tend to have to focus all efforts on the current car until the end of the season, leaving mere months to produce the next one. The extra funding afforded to Racing Point should allow earlier development for the next car, but there's a few schools of thought as to how the middle-grid teams set about their future given the size of changes coming.
Alternatively, 2020 is distinctly average for them, and their efforts focus early on to next year's Aston branded car - which might be a better strategy if the aim is to have the jewel in the Aston crown being a top tier F1 team at a time when the sport's undergoing some large changes and pushing for more viewership, since the audience has reduced in recent years (a mix of paywall vs free to air putting off all but die hard fans, and the perceived boredom that comes from Mercedes domination - even if some of the racing's been pretty good).
AP interview in autocar
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/exclus...
See snippet pasted below - finally, someone at the company conceding what I've been banging on about on here for many, many years. Even in private, I could never get anyone at Gaydon to concede this was an issue
Is his investment enough to do what you want?
“To this plan, yes. It allows us to once and for all start doing the right things, chief among them controlling supply and demand in a way that Ferrari has demonstrated can be so effective. In the past we have had a balance sheet that has required us to push wholesales to pay our bills. Now we can reset, reduce our stock and start operating properly.”
Having said that, this is his answer to another question
Will the split with Red Bull Technologies affect Valhalla?
“Valhalla was always in-house and will continue to be, as will development of our V6 hybrid engine.”
I may be wrong, but I thought they had previously pushed the idea that valhalla was being developed by the team they had put in at red bull ?
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/exclus...
See snippet pasted below - finally, someone at the company conceding what I've been banging on about on here for many, many years. Even in private, I could never get anyone at Gaydon to concede this was an issue
Is his investment enough to do what you want?
“To this plan, yes. It allows us to once and for all start doing the right things, chief among them controlling supply and demand in a way that Ferrari has demonstrated can be so effective. In the past we have had a balance sheet that has required us to push wholesales to pay our bills. Now we can reset, reduce our stock and start operating properly.”
Having said that, this is his answer to another question
Will the split with Red Bull Technologies affect Valhalla?
“Valhalla was always in-house and will continue to be, as will development of our V6 hybrid engine.”
I may be wrong, but I thought they had previously pushed the idea that valhalla was being developed by the team they had put in at red bull ?
jonby said:
AP interview in autocar
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/exclus...
See snippet pasted below - finally, someone at the company conceding what I've been banging on about on here for many, many years. Even in private, I could never get anyone at Gaydon to concede this was an issue
Is his investment enough to do what you want?
“To this plan, yes. It allows us to once and for all start doing the right things, chief among them controlling supply and demand in a way that Ferrari has demonstrated can be so effective. In the past we have had a balance sheet that has required us to push wholesales to pay our bills. Now we can reset, reduce our stock and start operating properly.”
Having said that, this is his answer to another question
Will the split with Red Bull Technologies affect Valhalla?
“Valhalla was always in-house and will continue to be, as will development of our V6 hybrid engine.”
I may be wrong, but I thought they had previously pushed the idea that valhalla was being developed by the team they had put in at red bull ?
Regarding Valhalla - it's derived from the Valkyrie, but will be developed in-house, based on the education and development of Valkyrie. The Red Bull partnership was invaluable to getting the car developed, but having learnt from it, it allows the in-house resource (probably moving from Red Bull's technology building opposite the F1 operation, back to Gaydon) to continue the work forward (resulting in the Vanquish eventually).https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/exclus...
See snippet pasted below - finally, someone at the company conceding what I've been banging on about on here for many, many years. Even in private, I could never get anyone at Gaydon to concede this was an issue
Is his investment enough to do what you want?
“To this plan, yes. It allows us to once and for all start doing the right things, chief among them controlling supply and demand in a way that Ferrari has demonstrated can be so effective. In the past we have had a balance sheet that has required us to push wholesales to pay our bills. Now we can reset, reduce our stock and start operating properly.”
Having said that, this is his answer to another question
Will the split with Red Bull Technologies affect Valhalla?
“Valhalla was always in-house and will continue to be, as will development of our V6 hybrid engine.”
I may be wrong, but I thought they had previously pushed the idea that valhalla was being developed by the team they had put in at red bull ?
NFC 85 Vette said:
While they finished 7th in the WCC last season, the improvement in performance later in the season (and the points haul) highlighted that the R&D budget afforded following Stroll's takeover was starting to reap rewards (they don't have access to Mercedes and Ferrari levels of cash, but it's vastly more than during the Force India days, and there's some clever people there who've always developed decent cars on a relative shoestring budget). It was accepted at the time that performance improvements wouldn't be visible for up to 18 months after the takeover, so I'd quietly confidently predict this season will see a more quantifiable improvement.
They're not going to be title contenders, but if the upward trend in performance carries through into this season, they're likely to be harassing Alpha Tauri, and perhaps even Renault (for all the boasting Renault has done over the winter with regard to its engine, the chassis has been lacking for a few years).
The elephant in the room is that 2021 sees the whole formula turned on its head with regard to technical regulations. The larger teams with bigger R&D budgets would be expected to have the resource to develop a 2020 and 2021 car in tandem - the smaller teams tend to have to focus all efforts on the current car until the end of the season, leaving mere months to produce the next one. The extra funding afforded to Racing Point should allow earlier development for the next car, but there's a few schools of thought as to how the middle-grid teams set about their future given the size of changes coming.
Alternatively, 2020 is distinctly average for them, and their efforts focus early on to next year's Aston branded car - which might be a better strategy if the aim is to have the jewel in the Aston crown being a top tier F1 team at a time when the sport's undergoing some large changes and pushing for more viewership, since the audience has reduced in recent years (a mix of paywall vs free to air putting off all but die hard fans, and the perceived boredom that comes from Mercedes domination - even if some of the racing's been pretty good).
I would imagine that from a sponsorship perspective an Aston Martin branded team would be significantly more attractive than Racing Point bringing in more and better sponsors.They're not going to be title contenders, but if the upward trend in performance carries through into this season, they're likely to be harassing Alpha Tauri, and perhaps even Renault (for all the boasting Renault has done over the winter with regard to its engine, the chassis has been lacking for a few years).
The elephant in the room is that 2021 sees the whole formula turned on its head with regard to technical regulations. The larger teams with bigger R&D budgets would be expected to have the resource to develop a 2020 and 2021 car in tandem - the smaller teams tend to have to focus all efforts on the current car until the end of the season, leaving mere months to produce the next one. The extra funding afforded to Racing Point should allow earlier development for the next car, but there's a few schools of thought as to how the middle-grid teams set about their future given the size of changes coming.
Alternatively, 2020 is distinctly average for them, and their efforts focus early on to next year's Aston branded car - which might be a better strategy if the aim is to have the jewel in the Aston crown being a top tier F1 team at a time when the sport's undergoing some large changes and pushing for more viewership, since the audience has reduced in recent years (a mix of paywall vs free to air putting off all but die hard fans, and the perceived boredom that comes from Mercedes domination - even if some of the racing's been pretty good).
RobDown said:
1. It feels like the V6 hybrid engine is being delayed (mid 20s). But I think that’s needed for DBX (it can’t stay with a thirsty V8 indefinitely). Maybe AML will need to find a hybrid engine to buy in?
Yes, I too noticed that in the official announcement.
Made me wonder about the Vanquush, which AML had previously announced would have a V6 hybrid.
The Vaquish won't stay in my shortlist with an MB V8.
I expect Red Bull F1 will be disappointed, but am sure they must understand AML were becoming desperate for more cash.
Any possibility of running out of money before the start of DBX production, would have been a disaster, after so much effort had gone into the creation.
Jon39 said:
Yes, I too noticed that in the official announcement.
Made me wonder about the Vanquush, which AML had previously announced would have a V6 hybrid.
The Vaquish won't stay in my shortlist with an MB V8.
I expect Red Bull F1 will be disappointed, but am sure they must understand AML were becoming desperate for more cash.
Any possibility of running out of money before the start of DBX production, would have been a disaster, after so much effort had gone into the creation.
It will be very difficult to change the engine in valhalla I imagine
Good deal for AML and probably a good deal for AP (based on consortium make up).
Not surprised by amount as need to have some buffer in there and good that there's a right issue. But, agree on mixed emotions.
Seems to be be very F1/luxury fashion focused consortium (some luxury real estate in their too). Plus Stroll has a fantastic collection of 20 plus Ferraris. Geely may have been a better match.
So hopefully success at F1 without too great a cost (success helps bring sponsors). Expect even more luxury offshoots and brand dilution though, plus Americas focus. Hopefully AML won't just be a waggy tail on a Lance Stroll F1 team.
Full Red Bull/Valkyrie opportunities will be lost, plus future joint projects and hope Le Mans/WEC GTE and Valkyrie programs aren't cut.
Not surprised by amount as need to have some buffer in there and good that there's a right issue. But, agree on mixed emotions.
Seems to be be very F1/luxury fashion focused consortium (some luxury real estate in their too). Plus Stroll has a fantastic collection of 20 plus Ferraris. Geely may have been a better match.
So hopefully success at F1 without too great a cost (success helps bring sponsors). Expect even more luxury offshoots and brand dilution though, plus Americas focus. Hopefully AML won't just be a waggy tail on a Lance Stroll F1 team.
Full Red Bull/Valkyrie opportunities will be lost, plus future joint projects and hope Le Mans/WEC GTE and Valkyrie programs aren't cut.
Good deal for AML. They have found a passionate billionaire with a vision. AML should never have been listed on the stock exchange in the first place. Lets see what the rights issue brings. I believe AML will ultimately be taken off the stock exchange as the new investor will probably not take all the minority investor along on the ride.
Stroll is passionate about cars and understands luxury goods and emerging markets.
AM will want to trade on a Luxury Goods multiple in the same way Ferrari do.
IMHO he is the right person.
Palmer has done an excellent job given resource available and the fundamental change in the luxury car market.
AM will want to trade on a Luxury Goods multiple in the same way Ferrari do.
IMHO he is the right person.
Palmer has done an excellent job given resource available and the fundamental change in the luxury car market.
hornbaek said:
Good deal for AML. They have found a passionate billionaire with a vision. AML should never have been listed on the stock exchange in the first place. Lets see what the rights issue brings. I believe AML will ultimately be taken off the stock exchange as the new investor will probably not take all the minority investor along on the ride.
I tend to agreeBut just a technical detail - Stroll is going to be a minority investor in AML (aim is to eventually get to a 20% stake). Albeit the shareholder agreement with the majority owners (InvestIndustrial etc) gives him the right to be chairman and appoint another board director.
Will be interesting to see what conflicts that might produce further down the line - particularly given Strolls Racing Point involvement (what’s good for them not necessarily good for AML). It’s really crystal ball gazing but it’s easy to see one side might want to buy out the other in a few years
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff