AML - Stock Market Listing
Discussion
Jon39 said:
Approximately 20% has traditionally always been the UK overall production for AML.
Are you expecting the UK to be a bigger percentage market for the DBX ?
Proportion figures are probably distorted at present, because sales of the Sports and GT models have been reduced.
I dont agree with your reference to adverse DBX PHer comments.
The model has generally been complemented on here. Even mention of high cost may not be entirely fair, because it is supposed to be competing with Bentley and that Italian SUV, not Range Rover.
Oilit's comment is the same as one I have previously made and are certainly not intended to be a criticism of the DBX.
1. By their nature, all SUVs are of a very similar silhouette.
2. The most common colour by far for SUVs in the UK is black.
3. Therefore if DBX buyers would like their new car to be noticed, then simply avoid buying a black one.
Whether that means more appear on the roads is an unknown. The logic at present appears to be that if you don't see them on the road, they aren't selling well. I've seen more DBX's than I have Urus' in the last 6 months, so it doesn't really represent what's actually going on IMO.
One aspect not really broached, is that there's a fair probability that the DBX's target market are new to Aston Martin, or low volume car makers all together, so potential UK customers may not be used to long waiting times, which would have certainly been the case in year one. The idea of being on a waiting list for a brand new model tends to have two responses; A) you're part of an exclusive, lucky few, or B) sod waiting, I'll just go buy a FFRR and have it in 4-5 months rather than 18 for a DBX. AFAIK, 18 months was the waiting list time if you were a UK customer who hadn't locked in a spec and paid a deposit at a confidential prior to the official unveiling. That's likely to have reduced now that the backlog in production (caused by the pandemic primarily) has been dealt with.
In any case, the DBX needs to be the successful bread winner, because nobody's really buying Vantage's, DB11's or DBSS' for a variety of reasons and that's unlikely to change between now and 2023 as the company's committed to overhauling those 3 models entirely, to address the plethora of issues, problems and deal breakers expressed by this forum.
Indeed my comments were not to be derogatory towards DBX - I actually rather like it - my point was that Black, with carbon badges and no chrome didn’t make it stand out - its amazing how just the wings on the front for me are where my eyes are drawn.
Perversely just back from the supermarket and I saw a bright yellow urus - obviously anything yellow is screaming LOOK AT ME, but funnily enough I didn’t after I saw it coming towards me, whereas the DBX I did have a better glance.
Perversely just back from the supermarket and I saw a bright yellow urus - obviously anything yellow is screaming LOOK AT ME, but funnily enough I didn’t after I saw it coming towards me, whereas the DBX I did have a better glance.
From what I can glean the UK is Aston’s biggest market in so much as other markets ( The America’s, Asia etc ) are not comparable.
Around 25% of Aston production is sold in the UK and that’s just one country, not a continent or huge region so by that the UK Is the biggest market if you compare like for like.
Around 25% of Aston production is sold in the UK and that’s just one country, not a continent or huge region so by that the UK Is the biggest market if you compare like for like.
We're quite close to Gaydon, so regularly see DBX around, including preproduction test beds (eg tyres) and telemetry cars. Also AML hacks with KX registrations. Sometimes not being driven well for the road conditions but driven over the village speed bumps "con brio" they do sound quite good...
I think that the DBX (like all SUV's with the possible exception of the Range Rover, which you have to say is imposing) are something to be appreciated from the inside. I would still go for a Bentayga if I was in that market, but if there is a problem with the DBX, and the Urus for that matter, is that it actually looks quite small, which is not what SUV's are supposed to be about.
Tell you what I did see - A Vanquish Zagato Convertible - out on the roads in good weather a week past last Saturday. It was a mid metallic blue, and it looked fantastic, I have to say.
Anyone know how the AML 'Build to Order' system is working, or how the vaned grille is doing against the Hunter Grille on the new Vantage?
Tell you what I did see - A Vanquish Zagato Convertible - out on the roads in good weather a week past last Saturday. It was a mid metallic blue, and it looked fantastic, I have to say.
Anyone know how the AML 'Build to Order' system is working, or how the vaned grille is doing against the Hunter Grille on the new Vantage?
Edited by ExecutiveAction on Wednesday 23 June 18:37
oilit said:
Indeed my comments were not to be derogatory towards DBX - I actually rather like it - my point was that Black, with carbon badges and no chrome didn’t make it stand out - its amazing how just the wings on the front for me are where my eyes are drawn.
My biggest issue with black, and this is also the case with the DB11, is that it cheapens the look of the car a lot, particularly with the grill and somewhat with the wheels. I understand that choice is important for the customer, but like Ferrari I still think Aston should have an input on what is chosen to a degree to maintain the image that they want for the company. The last thing a car costing close to 200k should look is pretty standard.Pardon a slightly off-topic post - a pretty minor offence compared with some on this thread.
I watched the Youtube clip of the Aston Martin Victor last night.
Apparently one of one. That's as may be. If they want to succeed, they need to build that, or something very like it, to the right standard, in quantity, for £200k. Front-Mid engined, over 800 bhp (650bhp would do as long as they kept the sopund) manual gearbox, plenty of leather and carbon fibre. They can hold the Playstation steering wheel (but that's just personal, I'd have a DB6 Motolita number.)
That is a car you just want, which is how it ought to be. Roll on Porsche's synthetic, carbon free fuel, and lets have cars like that.
I watched the Youtube clip of the Aston Martin Victor last night.
Apparently one of one. That's as may be. If they want to succeed, they need to build that, or something very like it, to the right standard, in quantity, for £200k. Front-Mid engined, over 800 bhp (650bhp would do as long as they kept the sopund) manual gearbox, plenty of leather and carbon fibre. They can hold the Playstation steering wheel (but that's just personal, I'd have a DB6 Motolita number.)
That is a car you just want, which is how it ought to be. Roll on Porsche's synthetic, carbon free fuel, and lets have cars like that.
ExecutiveAction said:
Pardon a slightly off-topic post - a pretty minor offence compared with some on this thread.
I watched the Youtube clip of the Aston Martin Victor last night.
Apparently one of one. That's as may be. If they want to succeed, they need to build that, or something very like it, to the right standard, in quantity, for £200k. Front-Mid engined, over 800 bhp (650bhp would do as long as they kept the sopund) manual gearbox, plenty of leather and carbon fibre. They can hold the Playstation steering wheel (but that's just personal, I'd have a DB6 Motolita number.)
That is a car you just want, which is how it ought to be. Roll on Porsche's synthetic, carbon free fuel, and lets have cars like that.
It would be lovely, but series production cars need to meet emissions legislation that a 1 of 1 build doesn't (at this point leaning towards Euro 7), and a 650bhp N/A V12 isn't going to do that. I don't know what would be junked in order to achieve the £200k price point, if the 7.3 V12 is the donor engine. The Victor is reported to have cost anywhere between 2m and 4m Euros to build. I watched the Youtube clip of the Aston Martin Victor last night.
Apparently one of one. That's as may be. If they want to succeed, they need to build that, or something very like it, to the right standard, in quantity, for £200k. Front-Mid engined, over 800 bhp (650bhp would do as long as they kept the sopund) manual gearbox, plenty of leather and carbon fibre. They can hold the Playstation steering wheel (but that's just personal, I'd have a DB6 Motolita number.)
That is a car you just want, which is how it ought to be. Roll on Porsche's synthetic, carbon free fuel, and lets have cars like that.
The emissions legislation is an important thing to note (apologies for dampening the mood), but in simple terms, engines will need to output roughly half the emissions they do under Euro 6. That's a big ask for the current turbocharged engines, hence why they're going the hybrid route to buy them some time (because Aston believes its customers still want internal combustion engines, which I assume is true, they just don't like what's currently on offer). A N/A V12 kicking out well North of 300 grams of Co2 simply cannot exist in series production form any longer. While Aston will have a derogation target that's higher than high volume OEM's who have to meet the 95g/km limit, they're unlikely to be able to take the piss with Co2 output targets (staying under 10,000 units sold in the EU is vital).
They did a mighty job getting the AE31 V12 to be far cleaner than the AM29, but the engine's becoming a bit long in the tooth now, and there's little point developing it much further if a few years later it's banned. Synthetic fuels are a noble thing to push for, but if it doesn't pan out and you don't have hybrid and BEV's to sell, the business dies.
As a petrolhead since age 6 and over 50 years of fettling and fiddling and saving and goosebumping over a V8 or V12's aural delight at the red line I am now finding the whole concept, complexity and cost of gigantic fossil fuel engines a bit lethargic and old hat. I'll go to wash my mouth out with soap and water after this but urge you to try something like a Taycan Turbo before you dismiss me as having sold out and lost the plot.
I adore my V12 and have no guilty conscience firing it up but having an EV that distorts your face and handles superbly whilst being carbon neutral and without tailpipe emissions is a definite positive for me and society. THIS is Astons future and they need to get ahead NOW. That is not crystal ball that is fact and survival and critical.
Ok the current buying tax breaks help too ;-)
I adore my V12 and have no guilty conscience firing it up but having an EV that distorts your face and handles superbly whilst being carbon neutral and without tailpipe emissions is a definite positive for me and society. THIS is Astons future and they need to get ahead NOW. That is not crystal ball that is fact and survival and critical.
Ok the current buying tax breaks help too ;-)
Ken Figenus said:
...... but urge you to try something like a Taycan Turbo ......
I have asked this before, but nobody can, or wants to reply.
I think the Taycan is an electric car.
How does a turbocharger work with an electric motor ?
What does carbon neutral mean ?
Do the occupants need to stop breathing out ? -
Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 24th June 19:02
Jon39 said:
Ken Figenus said:
...... but urge you to try something like a Taycan Turbo ......
I have asked this before, but nobody can, or wants to reply.I think the Taycan is an electric car.
How does a turbocharger work with an electric motor ?
What does carbon neutral mean ?
Do the occupants need to stop breathing out ? -
t. You cannot smelt steel and aluminium without giving off CO2, you cannot create all the wiring, the plastics, the numerous computer chips and boards plus build the blooming thing without using power and energy, that all has to be generated, not to mention mining the lithium etc. etc. They move most of the pollution from the point of consumption to the point of production but never pretend they are 'carbon neutral' 
Ken Figenus said:
As a petrolhead since age 6 and over 50 years of fettling and fiddling and saving and goosebumping over a V8 or V12's aural delight at the red line I am now finding the whole concept, complexity and cost of gigantic fossil fuel engines a bit lethargic and old hat. I'll go to wash my mouth out with soap and water after this but urge you to try something like a Taycan Turbo before you dismiss me as having sold out and lost the plot.
I adore my V12 and have no guilty conscience firing it up but having an EV that distorts your face and handles superbly whilst being carbon neutral and without tailpipe emissions is a definite positive for me and society. THIS is Astons future and they need to get ahead NOW. That is not crystal ball that is fact and survival and critical.
Ok the current buying tax breaks help too ;-)
Absolutely, the future is somewhat already set and car makers have no choice but to either adapt or die. Aston Martin has a lifeline in the form of the technical partnership with Mercedes, but as we've witnessed over the last 5 years or so, there's a reluctance from the loyal following to adapt and to change to fit in the surrounding world. I don't doubt that some will walk away from the marque all together once internal combustion engines are phased out, but it's not something Aston's doing to alienate existing customers or go after new money, it's being forced upon them and others.I adore my V12 and have no guilty conscience firing it up but having an EV that distorts your face and handles superbly whilst being carbon neutral and without tailpipe emissions is a definite positive for me and society. THIS is Astons future and they need to get ahead NOW. That is not crystal ball that is fact and survival and critical.
Ok the current buying tax breaks help too ;-)
If we look over to Ferrari, they're throwing the kitchen sink at their power trains in order to retain internal combustion engines via hybrid technology, the result being they're now in a horsepower arms race with McLaren. List prices for their 'entry level' models are rising rather a lot, power levels are such that they're simply too much car for the road, but they've been forced into this because BEV's now offer good performance gains, in acceleration if not in overall performance. It's gotten somewhat out of hand, and eventually once there's been enough fatalities caused by trying to deploy all that power on a congested highway, it might get reined in and we can have cars that have enough performance, that's actually enjoyable in the real world, because IMO having an 800bhp road car would be an exercise in frustration most of the time (and that's coming from someone who builds and races cars with 4000 odd horsepower).
We all know that the marketing and PR machine surrounding BEV's is such that they aren't really the saviour, they're no angel (the build cost of a BEV is not insignificant in Co2 output), but they're the current 'answer' to the question of cleaner transport and we're to be obedient, nod, smile and accept that it's for our own good - all complete nonsense of course, and it feels like part of your soul is being taken away, especially if cars have been a central part of your life since childhood. It's little different to when there was a big push to get people into diesels, which of course later saw a massive u-turn. Governments tell car makers to jump, and the car makers response can only ever be "how high, my lord?".
Synthetic fuels would provide a stay of execution, but they'll be stomped out if governments can help it; they've zero interest in allowing the (comparative) few driving enthusiasts of the world to enjoy something that isn't descended from a milk float. I'd be content with a BEV Vantage, if the range was around that of the petrol equivalent, and it had all the tech of a new S Class, but cloaked in a bespoke, focused interior. At least I could leave at 2am without pissing off the landlord...
Ken Figenus said:
I adore my V12 and have no guilty conscience firing it up but having an EV that distorts your face and handles superbly whilst being carbon neutral and without tailpipe emissions is a definite positive for me and society. THIS is Astons future and they need to get ahead NOW. That is not crystal ball that is fact and survival and critical.
Ok the current buying tax breaks help too ;-)
You've not lost the plot at all. I'd take my Model 3 over any RS4/6 thing any day. I just can't fathom anyone would want something that burns that much fuel as a daily when you've got a fun car too. I love that my model 3 has the equivalent of someone coming around my house every night and brimming it to 400km for less than 10 quid! The Taycan Touring may well be the next one for me but with the Rivian R1T and others, the choice is really out there. I still maintain I'd struggle if the EV was my only car though, they are a tad dull.Ok the current buying tax breaks help too ;-)
RichB said:
Everyone knows it's not 'carbon neutral' that's just marketing bullst. You cannot smelt steel and aluminium without giving off CO2, you cannot create all the wiring, the plastics, the numerous computer chips and boards plus build the blooming thing without using power and energy, that all has to be generated, not to mention mining the lithium etc. etc. They move most of the pollution from the point of consumption to the point of production but never pretend they are 'carbon neutral'
Completely agree, however, after 50,000 miles they do indeed become that way when compared to a similar sized ICE car. Given EV's should last 300,000+ they are way better than ICE long term. However, to say everyone should bin their ICE and get an EV is a nono. We all need to keep our existing cars working for as long as possible. t. You cannot smelt steel and aluminium without giving off CO2, you cannot create all the wiring, the plastics, the numerous computer chips and boards plus build the blooming thing without using power and energy, that all has to be generated, not to mention mining the lithium etc. etc. They move most of the pollution from the point of consumption to the point of production but never pretend they are 'carbon neutral' As I said in a different thread, I'd take the DBX as an EV but in its current guise, absolutely not. I hope they're selling well, chatting to my dealer they've moved a few on but not quite as many as they'd have liked.
Edited by dbs2000 on Friday 25th June 09:23
As we're on the subject of EVs, here's my thoughts on the matter. Making something large and heavy and then powering it by battery is simply stupid. EV manufacturers should be focusing on lightness, unfortunately the worlds obsession with 2 1/2 ton behemoths shows no sign of abating.
Inevitably I will end up using a EV as my everyday car, it will be a Volvo Estate or Polestar Estate of some description (we benefit from my wife's previous employment). They are Ideal for luggage lugging, fast enough for everyday use, comfortable and an excellent sound system and if it's a plug in fine.
I will continue to enjoy driving one of the cars in the garage for entertainment, be it vintage, classic or hooligan! I have zero interest in anything posh and expensive like an EV Porsche, Aston, Merc or Bentley.
Inevitably I will end up using a EV as my everyday car, it will be a Volvo Estate or Polestar Estate of some description (we benefit from my wife's previous employment). They are Ideal for luggage lugging, fast enough for everyday use, comfortable and an excellent sound system and if it's a plug in fine.
I will continue to enjoy driving one of the cars in the garage for entertainment, be it vintage, classic or hooligan! I have zero interest in anything posh and expensive like an EV Porsche, Aston, Merc or Bentley.
I just really really wish the government applied some common sense to it rather than the green washing and determination for everything to be 'carbon neutral'.
Electric cars, in the main, are a great thing. One of the worst things about modern (non sports/super) cars is the awful engines. My girlfriend's Qashqai is a 1.5l diesel - noisy, rattly, slow hateful thing. a smooth, silent electric motor would improve it no end. Same for about 95% of the cars on the road, even the modern 4cyl petrols are buzzy and overboosted, and generally crap compared to the older 6's they don't seem to offer anymore (BMW I'm looking right at you).
But why oh why can't they let our British manufacturers, Aston, Bentley, RR, Jaguar etc make a limited number of petrol cars per year?! Say 5k max, what effect is that really going to have compared to all the other stuff going on out there? The people that buy these cars don't daily drive them, they do a few thousand miles per year at most. It would also give our automotive sector a USP, as I really do think they're going to struggle to sell stuff like Vantages when they're silent and have the same performance stats as family saloons - it's unfortunately all coming!
Electric cars, in the main, are a great thing. One of the worst things about modern (non sports/super) cars is the awful engines. My girlfriend's Qashqai is a 1.5l diesel - noisy, rattly, slow hateful thing. a smooth, silent electric motor would improve it no end. Same for about 95% of the cars on the road, even the modern 4cyl petrols are buzzy and overboosted, and generally crap compared to the older 6's they don't seem to offer anymore (BMW I'm looking right at you).
But why oh why can't they let our British manufacturers, Aston, Bentley, RR, Jaguar etc make a limited number of petrol cars per year?! Say 5k max, what effect is that really going to have compared to all the other stuff going on out there? The people that buy these cars don't daily drive them, they do a few thousand miles per year at most. It would also give our automotive sector a USP, as I really do think they're going to struggle to sell stuff like Vantages when they're silent and have the same performance stats as family saloons - it's unfortunately all coming!
RichB said:
As we're on the subject of EVs, here's my thoughts on the matter. Making something large and heavy and then powering it by battery is simply stupid. EV manufacturers should be focusing on lightness, unfortunately the worlds obsession with 2 1/2 ton behemoths shows no sign of abating.
Solid state batteries will cut the existing battery pack weights in half (or they'll just add stupid 1000m range packs)RichB said:
Inevitably I will end up using a EV as my everyday car, it will be a Volvo Estate or Polestar Estate of some description (we benefit from my wife's previous employment). They are Ideal for luggage lugging, fast enough for everyday use, comfortable and an excellent sound system and if it's a plug in fine.
I will continue to enjoy driving one of the cars in the garage for entertainment, be it vintage, classic or hooligan! I have zero interest in anything posh and expensive like an EV Porsche, Aston, Merc or Bentley.
Agree with everything here (except the expensive part, I'd take a decent one). The main benefit of an EV to the driver / passengers, is just how nice, smooth and quiet they are. I will continue to enjoy driving one of the cars in the garage for entertainment, be it vintage, classic or hooligan! I have zero interest in anything posh and expensive like an EV Porsche, Aston, Merc or Bentley.
Every time I get in my DBS I love not having a iPad glaring back at me, the feel of the old steering and brakes, the smell, the noise etc.
Phil74891 said:
Quick question - how much does it cost to fully charge an EV overnight at home?
Its a bit open ended. If you charge during the day off your solar, then its free. (not inc cost of solar). You'd need a fair few panels though and some big old sun because on home chargers they can add about ~8kw / hour.If you have a powerwall, then that too will be reduced. (I think a powerwall holds about 12kw)
Without any of that fancy gubbins then its kilowatts used x your tariff. So if you take the model 3 and add 50kw €0.21*50.00 = €10.50 (I'm based in NL so €). That gets you about 380km (~230 miles)
Edited by dbs2000 on Friday 25th June 10:42
Phil74891 said:
Quick question - how much does it cost to fully charge an EV overnight at home?
Hardly a difficult question. A Tesla has around ~100kWH battery, so your electricity price per kwH in pence is the full-to-empty recharge cost in pounds. Assuming around 12p/kWH, £12 to charge.
.
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff