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[anonymous-user]

Shrimpvende said:

I just really really wish the government applied some common sense to it rather than the green washing and determination for everything to be 'carbon neutral'.

Electric cars, in the main, are a great thing. One of the worst things about modern (non sports/super) cars is the awful engines. My girlfriend's Qashqai is a 1.5l diesel - noisy, rattly, slow hateful thing. a smooth, silent electric motor would improve it no end. Same for about 95% of the cars on the road, even the modern 4cyl petrols are buzzy and overboosted, and generally crap compared to the older 6's they don't seem to offer anymore (BMW I'm looking right at you).

But why oh why can't they let our British manufacturers, Aston, Bentley, RR, Jaguar etc make a limited number of petrol cars per year?! Say 5k max, what effect is that really going to have compared to all the other stuff going on out there? The people that buy these cars don't daily drive them, they do a few thousand miles per year at most. It would also give our automotive sector a USP, as I really do think they're going to struggle to sell stuff like Vantages when they're silent and have the same performance stats as family saloons - it's unfortunately all coming!

In a way, that's already in place in so much as the car makers producing low volumes of cars aren't subjected to the same emissions limits, meaning their fleet average can be higher (something in the region of 275g/km rather than 95g/km for a large OEM i.e. >300k cars PA). If you produce up to, but not more than 10,000 cars, you're in a situation where you can set your own derogation target for a fleet average Co2. That's how Aston, Ferrari and co are able to still offer V12 internal combustion engines. Of course if they produced less than 1000 cars a year, they'd be subject to no rules at all (unless they volunteered one, which is like shooting yourself in the foot), but the price of the cars would be somewhat...more. It's why Pagani, Koenigsegg and so on produce few cars, but charge sizable sums for them.

[Jon39]

NFC 85 Vette said:

- - but as we've witnessed over the last 5 years or so, there's a reluctance from the loyal following to adapt and to change to fit in the surrounding world. I don't doubt that some will walk away from the marque all together once internal combustion engines are phased out - -

Many of the fortunate owners of Vanquish, DBS, DB9 and (VH) Vantage, might consider they have no need to adapt.
They already own beautiful Aston Martin sports cars, which if regarded as toys for occasional use and therefore low mileage, should last for decades. They might even enjoy the full driver experience, of being allowed to switch on lights and wipers, maybe perhaps change gear with an old fashioned lever.

Why is there any need for them to adapt ?
Their daily driver with much less feeling of attachment, will be the vehicle for adapting.

In ten years time, I wonder if some current owners of the VH era cars, might regret having sold ?

[anonymous-user]

Jon39 said:

Many of the fortunate owners of Vanquish, DBS, DB9 and (VH) Vantage, might consider they have no need to adapt.
They already own beautiful Aston Martin sports cars, which if regarded as toys for occasional use and therefore low mileage, should last for decades. They might even enjoy the full driver experience, of being allowed to switch on lights and wipers, maybe perhaps change gear with an old fashioned lever.

Why is there any need for them to adapt ?
Their daily driver with much less feeling of attachment, will be the vehicle for adapting.

In ten years time, I wonder if some current owners of the VH era cars, might regret having sold ?

My point was regarding options for buying a new Aston Martin after 2030. I appreciate that those in a Vanquish, old DBS, DB9 or last gen Vantage have little appetite for switching to a current Aston, so my logic is that when the new options only contain ones driven my electric motors, I expect only the 'unfortunate owners' like myself will migrate to one.

If synthetic fuels don't pan out, the next item on government check lists will likely be to tax (be it via VED or at the petrol pump), owners of ICE cars to the point where they're ruinous to run or own, even as an occasional weekend toy. It's not a future I'm keen on, but it appears to be the way the world is heading. I don't wish to be doom and gloom about it, but the glory days of internal combustion engined road cars, are in the rear view mirror, not on the horizon IMO.

[Minglar]

Jon39 said:

Many of the fortunate owners of Vanquish, DBS, DB9 and (VH) Vantage, might consider they have no need to adapt.
They already own beautiful Aston Martin sports cars, which if regarded as toys for occasional use and therefore low mileage, should last for decades. They might even enjoy the full driver experience, of being allowed to switch on lights and wipers, maybe perhaps change gear with an old fashioned lever.

Why is there any need for them to adapt ?
Their daily driver with much less feeling of attachment, will be the vehicle for adapting.

In ten years time, I wonder if some current owners of the VH era cars, might regret having sold ?

I guess the main issue is how useable will these cars be in ten or fifteen years from now? I would assume that taxes will be increased to deter use, probably road fund licence, and perhaps on fuel too. At the extreme end of the spectrum is it possible that their road use will be banned completely in the future? It’s a grey area and no one really knows the answers right now, but as previously mentioned the political will for change is undoubtedly there for whatever reason. And I hate to say it chaps but this is going off at a very different tangent from the thread title! Perhaps someone should start a new AM EV thread?

ETA

Sorry NFC, I was typing my reply and I must have sent it after yours hit the thread, so apologies for the similar rhetoric.

Best Regards

Minglar

Edited by Minglar on Friday 25th June 11:57

[dbs2000]

Minglar said:

I guess the main issue is how useable will these cars be in ten or fifteen years from now? I would assume that taxes will be increased to deter use, probably road fund licence, and perhaps on fuel too. At the extreme end of the spectrum is it possible that their road use will be banned completely in the future? It’s a grey area and no one really knows the answers right now, but as previously mentioned the political will for change is undoubtedly there for whatever reason. And I hate to say it chaps but this is going off at a very different tangent from the thread title! Perhaps someone should start a new AM EV thread?

ETA

Sorry NFC, I was typing my reply and I must have sent it after yours hit the thread, so apologies for the similar rhetoric.

Best Regards

Minglar

Edited by Minglar on Friday 25th June 11:57

If Porsche crack synfuel then they'll be no issues, unless anything other than autonomous is banned.

Anyway, back to AML stocks. I'm out and have been for a while.

[Dewi 2]

dbs2000 said:

Anyway, back to AML stocks. I'm out and have been for a while.

Snap. Not just out, but thrown out when the 1 for 20 consolidation occurred.
It was never a long-term investor stock. I only bought to obtain the share certificate, which is now a framed garage momento.

I have just been reminded about some vehicles which thrill and which we will probably still be able to hear, when every new Aston Martin produced has to be silent.

The Red Arrows flew over my home. They were going too fast to ask about 'carbon neutral'. Could stil hear them 4 minutes later, when they were probably more than 25 miles away.
Brilliant. Just imagine those being silent.

[Dewi 2]

Minglar said:

I would assume that taxes will be increased to deter use, probably road fund licence, and perhaps on fuel too.

This week I enjoyed a very pleasant 100 mile drive in a V8, without needing any road tax.
It was on two lovely sunny days, through beautiful countryside.
All within the current law too.

[oilit]

I do think if you look at the likes of Tesla, you are buying battery & motor technology wrapped by a body which is not exactly special in the looks department - but equally not too offensive, (with what some say is a less than opulent interior).

Surely in the electrified world, these are the areas AM need to excel at - interior and exterior design, and quality.

[AstonZagato]

As an owner of A V12 (Vanquish S), a PHEV (Range Rover) and an EV (Tesla Model X), I straddle the petrol/electric divide. They each have their own niches. I am not sure that I'd want an electric sports car from Aston though - but an electric or PHEV DBX might suit. The Tesla gets used the most of all the cars as it is so convenient (always full of fuel, silent, astronomically swift, cheap to run, seen mainly in a positive light - other than by 50+yo men).

The PHEV made sense as I shoot up in Northumberland and down in Devon. I don't like leaving the guns/dogs in the car so charging might be an issue but with a PHEV I can stick petrol in and be on my way. As the range gets better and we get real off road cars (Rivian), I will probably try a BEV in that role for a while.

[ExecutiveAction]

NFC 85 Vette said:

My point was regarding options for buying a new Aston Martin after 2030. I appreciate that those in a Vanquish, old DBS, DB9 or last gen Vantage have little appetite for switching to a current Aston, so my logic is that when the new options only contain ones driven my electric motors, I expect only the 'unfortunate owners' like myself will migrate to one.

If synthetic fuels don't pan out, the next item on government check lists will likely be to tax (be it via VED or at the petrol pump), owners of ICE cars to the point where they're ruinous to run or own, even as an occasional weekend toy. It's not a future I'm keen on, but it appears to be the way the world is heading. I don't wish to be doom and gloom about it, but the glory days of internal combustion engined road cars, are in the rear view mirror, not on the horizon IMO.

We all have different perspectives. For me the scenario you describe above is as close to a tyrannical dictatorship with restricted personal freedom, as makes no difference. There are various solutions, one of which is to move somewhere else. That’s what I would do.

[Ken Figenus]

Good chat guys and sorry to derail thread somewhat but as Porsche have already nailed a great looking very pleasant to drive GT with an absolutely excellent ride, and that will get incrementally better annually, I just felt that Aston digging in here (rather than tinkering and failing like they did with the practically useless '5 metre city car' Rapid-e) is a crucial factor in any share price discussion.

It helps having a de-catted V12 in the garage for-life of course , but I'm very positive about BEV's and have put my money where my mouth is for a Stuttgart estate. Blew me away and loved it and will charge from my PV solar panels when the sun shines.

PS The Carbon Neutral PR bit I read was "Porsche has reached another important milestone: the Taycan Cross Turismo will be the first vehicle that will be CO2-neutral throughout its use phase."

[RichB]

The key words being "throughout its use phase."

[SSO]

NFC 85 Vette said:

In any case, the DBX needs to be the successful bread winner, because nobody's really buying Vantage's, DB11's or DBSS' for a variety of reasons and that's unlikely to change between now and 2023 as the company's committed to overhauling those 3 models entirely, to address the plethora of issues, problems and deal breakers expressed by this forum.

I believe the DBX is now struggling in the US. Got an email recently offering 3 years free service if you purchased a new DBX out of dealer stock. Dealer who sent out the email has 9 listed and probably an equal number sitting on the back lot.

Lawsuit against Nebula is quite questionable given Nebula provided funding for the Valkyrie development when Aston needed it most.

[anonymous-user]

SSO said:

I believe the DBX is now struggling in the US. Got an email recently offering 3 years free service if you purchased a new DBX out of dealer stock. Dealer who sent out the email has 9 listed and probably an equal number sitting on the back lot.

Lawsuit against Nebula is quite questionable given Nebula provided funding for the Valkyrie development when Aston needed it most.

If that's the case then maybe Aston should throw in the towel and accept defeat. They had a decent run, many buyouts, a few great cars and currently several awful ones. It's a shame the DBX wasn't more successful, it might have saved their bacon. IIRC, new cars came with 5 years free servicing now, so I'm not sure why the US dealers offer less.

[Agent57]

NFC 85 Vette said:

If that's the case then maybe Aston should throw in the towel and accept defeat. They had a decent run, many buyouts, a few great cars and currently several awful ones. It's a shame the DBX wasn't more successful, it might have saved their bacon. IIRC, new cars came with 5 years free servicing now, so I'm not sure why the US dealers offer less.

Yeah I think Ferrari offer seven years free servicing on new cars. If I was buying any new car I'd expect it to last three years and the manufacturer and dealer to have confidence in it.

[SSO]

Agent57 said:

NFC 85 Vette said:

If that's the case then maybe Aston should throw in the towel and accept defeat. They had a decent run, many buyouts, a few great cars and currently several awful ones. It's a shame the DBX wasn't more successful, it might have saved their bacon. IIRC, new cars came with 5 years free servicing now, so I'm not sure why the US dealers offer less.

Yeah I think Ferrari offer seven years free servicing on new cars. If I was buying any new car I'd expect it to last three years and the manufacturer and dealer to have confidence in it.

Ferrari does offer 7 years free servicing with every new car but the cost is just built into the cars price and has been for years. Aston doesn't include any free servicing with new car purchases so this offer is effectively a discount.

[Shrimpvende]

SSO said:

Agent57 said:

NFC 85 Vette said:

If that's the case then maybe Aston should throw in the towel and accept defeat. They had a decent run, many buyouts, a few great cars and currently several awful ones. It's a shame the DBX wasn't more successful, it might have saved their bacon. IIRC, new cars came with 5 years free servicing now, so I'm not sure why the US dealers offer less.

Yeah I think Ferrari offer seven years free servicing on new cars. If I was buying any new car I'd expect it to last three years and the manufacturer and dealer to have confidence in it.

Ferrari does offer 7 years free servicing with every new car but the cost is just built into the cars price and has been for years. Aston doesn't include any free servicing with new car purchases so this offer is effectively a discount.

Did they withdraw this offer from the Vantage? Mine has a 5 year service pack with it. I think they extended this to DB11 also?

[pschlute]

SSO said:

Aston doesn't include any free servicing with new car purchases so this offer is effectively a discount.

The DB11 comes with 5 years service plan.

[SSO]

pschlute said:

SSO said:

Aston doesn't include any free servicing with new car purchases so this offer is effectively a discount.

The DB11 comes with 5 years service plan.

Don't know about the DB11 but the DBX does not in the US.

[Jon39]

The H1 2021 results are due to be announced on 28 July.
An online Q&A session with the CEO and CFO is expected at 8:30 am UK time on that day.

We remember the £19 IPO float share price, but with several capital raises and the 1 for 20 share consolidation, the current share price of about
£18-88 can be rather confusing, almost appearing to have recovered the loss.
After adjusting for those corporate actions, the IPO float share price becomes £116-21.