AML - Stock Market Listing
Discussion
matrignano said:
Surely at this valuation, MB should just buy the whole lot?
You get a luxury brand and can probably restructure AM F1 in to a proper B team like Alpha Tauri
You get a luxury brand and can probably restructure AM F1 in to a proper B team like Alpha Tauri
Mercedes-Benz present shareholding is (I think about 11%).
They are due to receive a further (is it) 5% next year, then later on a final amount taking their holding to 20%.
Note that Mercedes-Benz have never had to pay for any of their shares. Does that indicate anything?
They have been newly issued shares, thereby diluting the holdings of the existing shareholders.
There is a drawback to your idea about the prospect of an M-B F1 B team.
AM F1 is not a subsidiary of Aston Martin Lagonda.
It is a completely separate privately owned company.
If there were to be a business failure at Aston Martin Lagonda Global Holdings Plc., the racing team would not be involved.
Peavey123 said:
I think Stroll has his eyes on taking it private.
Would that be long-term financially attractive to him ?
Privately owning an habitually loss making car manufacturing business.
Perhaps though, a cunning flip plan.
Maybe try to recruit Christian von Koenigsegg, although I doubt he would agree.
There is someone who has shown how to start, run and grow, a profitable sports car manufacturing business.
Believes in making almost all components in-house.
Certainly not an easy business.
Which other new start (sports car) businesses have we seen in recent years, that achieve success ?
Rimac ?
As another posted recently, Stroll could control 22% of AML and only invested 5% in cash, depending on how YewTree is set up.
Taking it private would mean writing the debt off and starting again with a clean slate.
If Stroll is a bondholder, that’s c.£1bn at 10.5-15% interest per annum, that means you double your money in 5 years.
Bondholders sit way ahead of equity holders if the company folds.
I’d say that’d be quite the coup if Stroll had controlling interest and Merc shares got wiped out along with everyone else’s.
Stroll could do without the glare of the markets too.
Taking it private would mean writing the debt off and starting again with a clean slate.
If Stroll is a bondholder, that’s c.£1bn at 10.5-15% interest per annum, that means you double your money in 5 years.
Bondholders sit way ahead of equity holders if the company folds.
I’d say that’d be quite the coup if Stroll had controlling interest and Merc shares got wiped out along with everyone else’s.
Stroll could do without the glare of the markets too.
Peavey123 said:
As another posted recently, Stroll could control 22% of AML and only invested 5% in cash, depending on how YewTree is set up.
Taking it private would mean writing the debt off and starting again with a clean slate.
If Stroll is a bondholder, that’s c. 1bn at 10.5-15% interest per annum, that means you double your money in 5 years.
Bondholders sit way ahead of equity holders if the company folds.
I’d say that’d be quite the coup if Stroll had controlling interest and Merc shares got wiped out along with everyone else’s.
Stroll could do without the glare of the markets too.
You posted similar on LSE on Friday.Taking it private would mean writing the debt off and starting again with a clean slate.
If Stroll is a bondholder, that’s c. 1bn at 10.5-15% interest per annum, that means you double your money in 5 years.
Bondholders sit way ahead of equity holders if the company folds.
I’d say that’d be quite the coup if Stroll had controlling interest and Merc shares got wiped out along with everyone else’s.
Stroll could do without the glare of the markets too.
Peavey123 said:
As another posted recently, Stroll could control 22% of AML and only invested 5% in cash, depending on how YewTree is set up.
Taking it private would mean writing the debt off and starting again with a clean slate.
If Stroll is a bondholder, that’s c. 1bn at 10.5-15% interest per annum, that means you double your money in 5 years.
Bondholders sit way ahead of equity holders if the company folds.
I’d say that’d be quite the coup if Stroll had controlling interest and Merc shares got wiped out along with everyone else’s.
Stroll could do without the glare of the markets too.
He'd own a great company with no engine supplier ...Taking it private would mean writing the debt off and starting again with a clean slate.
If Stroll is a bondholder, that’s c. 1bn at 10.5-15% interest per annum, that means you double your money in 5 years.
Bondholders sit way ahead of equity holders if the company folds.
I’d say that’d be quite the coup if Stroll had controlling interest and Merc shares got wiped out along with everyone else’s.
Stroll could do without the glare of the markets too.
Peavey123 said:
... Taking it private would mean writing the debt off and starting again with a clean slate. ...
... Stroll could do without the glare of the markets too.
... Stroll could do without the glare of the markets too.
If someone buys all the shares of public company that they do not already own, therefore making the business a privately owned company, please explain how that writes off the debt? Are you assuming an administration, followed by an administrator sale? You will know an administrators responsibility, so there would be no certainty of a purchase by Mr. Stroll.
Regarding your other comment, you might have been reading my posts from 155 pages ago, prior to the IPO.
We did not know at that time, what the PE investors were up to, but we did fear the public spotlight for AML if it became a PLC.
Is your Aston Martin a VH model, or 'Second Century' ?
Jon39 said:
Peavey123 said:
... Taking it private would mean writing the debt off and starting again with a clean slate. ...
... Stroll could do without the glare of the markets too.
... Stroll could do without the glare of the markets too.
If someone buys all the shares of public company that they do not already own, therefore making the business a privately owned company, please explain how that writes off the debt? Are you assuming an administration, followed by an administrator sale? You will know an administrators responsibility, so there would be no certainty of a purchase by Mr. Stroll.
Regarding your other comment, you might have been reading my posts from 155 pages ago, prior to the IPO.
We did not know at that time, what the PE investors were up to, but we did fear the public spotlight for AML if it became a PLC.
Is your Aston Martin a VH model, or 'Second Century' ?
Best Regards
Minglar
oilit said:
Is MB allowed to sell their holding at anytime - do they hold the same classification of stock as a retail investor?
I am certain they do. Whether they are restricted by the technology agreements (Bez and Stroll) I don't know, but unlikely I would think.
Take a look at their accounts. What would they do with the sale proceeds? Give one sandwich to each of their employees perhaps.
They deal in figures which make telephone numbers look short, so the board making decisions about selling a few shares, would be a waste of their time.
One handy reason not to sell, is the change of ownership clause in the agreement. They could stop the supply of parts to AML if there was a change of owners.
Minglar said:
Another 2.7% sell off this morning. Trading around 6.10, so almost 30p in old money. Does anyone know what the lowest traded was before Stroll and Yew Tree stepped in? 25p seems to ring a bell but I can’t remember!
At your service Richard, but I only have closing prices for the close of each business week.
Lowest - Friday 15th May 2020 = 33 p. Market value = 509 million.
Comparison is of course complicated by subsequent equity issues etc..
Last Friday's market value = £779 million.
Very sad to witness this price decline almost every day, especially when my own fund is (so far this year, you never know what is going to happen) having one of its best YTD performances of 30 years.
If the AML market value continues to decline, something will eventually happen. I don't know what.
AGM today. We need a 'fly on the wall'.
Jon39 said:
Minglar said:
Another 2.7% sell off this morning. Trading around 6.10, so almost 30p in old money. Does anyone know what the lowest traded was before Stroll and Yew Tree stepped in? 25p seems to ring a bell but I can’t remember!
At your service Richard, but I only have closing prices for the close of each business week.
Lowest - Friday 15th May 2020 = 33 p. Market value = 509 million.
Comparison is of course complicated by subsequent equity issues etc..
Last Friday's market value = 779 million.
Very sad to witness this price decline almost every day, especially when my own fund is (so far this year, you never know what is going to happen) having one of its best YTD performances of 30 years.
If the AML market value continues to decline, something will eventually happen. I don't know what.
AGM today. We need a 'fly on the wall'.
As always, I figured you would know the answer. I know they gave existing share holders the option to buy a portion of their holding at 30p in April 2020, but I couldn’t remember the exact lows.
It still feels to me like there is a real risk that insolvency may end up being declared, every retail shareholder will get burned, and then the cycle will start all over again. Possibly back to private ownership, or perhaps a subsequent buy out by a bigger player?
Unfortunately I am unable to attend today. It would be nice to hear from anyone on here who does though. I would imagine that there may be some difficult questions asked, and I would be interested to hear the replies. Do you know if there is an official play back or any minutes etc available afterwards at all?
Best Regards
Minglar
Minglar said:
Thanks Jon
As always, I figured you would know the answer. I know they gave existing share holders the option to buy a portion of their holding at 30p in April 2020, but I couldn’t remember the exact lows.
It still feels to me like there is a real risk that insolvency may end up being declared, every retail shareholder will get burned, and then the cycle will start all over again. Possibly back to private ownership, or perhaps a subsequent buy out by a bigger player?
Unfortunately I am unable to attend today. It would be nice to hear from anyone on here who does though. I would imagine that there may be some difficult questions asked, and I would be interested to hear the replies. Do you know if there is an official play back or any minutes etc available afterwards at all?
Best Regards
Minglar
As always, I figured you would know the answer. I know they gave existing share holders the option to buy a portion of their holding at 30p in April 2020, but I couldn’t remember the exact lows.
It still feels to me like there is a real risk that insolvency may end up being declared, every retail shareholder will get burned, and then the cycle will start all over again. Possibly back to private ownership, or perhaps a subsequent buy out by a bigger player?
Unfortunately I am unable to attend today. It would be nice to hear from anyone on here who does though. I would imagine that there may be some difficult questions asked, and I would be interested to hear the replies. Do you know if there is an official play back or any minutes etc available afterwards at all?
Best Regards
Minglar
Large companies with a wide variety of shareholder types have recently really grasped online, so many make viewing AGMs from home available now for their shareholders. For small companies, not worth doing. Not as interesting as they used to be, because numerous protest groups now attend. There was even a protest choir who disrupted HSBC, by singing 'Money, Money, Money', before being 'shown the door'. Providing a popular service and making a profit, they consider wrong. Perhaps they confuse business, with charity.
The AGM voting results should be made public by reporting to the London Stock exchange (normally very predictable anyway), but they don't put much about AGMs on the website.
A share price decline is of course an indicator, but not necessarily the cause of trouble. That tends to usually be running short of cash. Think AML still has enough cash for the moment.
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