AML - Stock Market Listing
Discussion
DickyC said:
On a factory tour, in the days of the original V8 Aston, our guide summed up Aston Martin's aims. He told us that whereas many car manufacturers start with a nice place to be, build a car round it and then try and make it behave, Aston Martin built a car that would go, handle and stop and then try to insulate the occupants from the worst of the discomfort. They did that with top quality leather, wood and carpet. Maybe it's still much the same.
I think in the 1970's that was right; Aston were - shoot me down if you wish - more of a sporting Bentley. But now they're not, they only make sports cars.Dewi 2 said:
My own Vantage, which I adore, does certainly look luxurious when peering in from the outside.
However being a sports car, when driving there is reassuringly firm suspension and a delightful exhaust sound.
For a luxurious daily driver, I certainly do not want firm suspension, or exhaust noise.
It could therefore be concluded, that the wonderful Aston Martin sports cars, are neither luxury or ultra-luxury products.
My thoughts exactly. For 'ultra-luxury' the car that pops into my mind every time is a Bentley Continental. (I guess Rolls can outdo that with diamonds in the roof etc but that's just getting silly). If I was being chauffeured to the south of France I'd much rather do it in a Bentley than an Aston. I see an Aston as a short-range interceptor, the same niche as TVR but up a league or two. Great fun but entirely unpractical!However being a sports car, when driving there is reassuringly firm suspension and a delightful exhaust sound.
For a luxurious daily driver, I certainly do not want firm suspension, or exhaust noise.
It could therefore be concluded, that the wonderful Aston Martin sports cars, are neither luxury or ultra-luxury products.
M1AGM said:
The ultra-luxury sector is ‘boundaried’ by the notion of sprezzatura.
Was that Lawrence Stroll speaking, after wine tasting in Italy? ...
( The opposite of sprezzatura is said to be affectazione, which I don't think has anything to do with lack of luxury. )
Possibly the conclusion might be, that it is all just hype, hoping to sell more cars.
To leave all the ultra-luxury competition in the dust, I suggest AML move to hyper-luxury, before introducing their mega-luxury range.
Simpo Two said:
<clip> I think in the 1970's that was right; Aston were - shoot me down if you wish - more of a sporting Bentley. But now they're not, they only make sports cars...
Of course there is a direct link with Bentley in that during the '50s golden era the cars were powered by a WO designed engine, courtesy of Lagonda Were they sports cars, more rather sporting saloons I think. RichB said:
Simpo Two said:
<clip> I think in the 1970's that was right; Aston were - shoot me down if you wish - more of a sporting Bentley. But now they're not, they only make sports cars...
Of course there is a direct link with Bentley in that during the '50s golden era the cars were powered by a WO designed engine, courtesy of Lagonda Were they sports cars, more rather sporting saloons I think. I hear that Jaguar are planning something 'presidential', which will be interesting to see.
Jon39 said:
5th March 2023 - Fernando Alonso finishes 3rd in the Bahrain GP.
Huge excitement. Considerable increase in the AML share price.
19th March 2023 - Fernando Alonso finishes 3rd in the Saudi Arabian GP.
No share price reaction.
Funny old thing - human nature.
Seriously though, the usual LSE, and other forum trolls are back, having been absent for over two months when the price continually rallied. The cynic in me would suggest that the shorters are back and are spreading their love around the market again, quoting the same lines over and over again. I guess the latest round of central bank rate rises this week, plus the situation with CS and the overall banking system haven’t helped overall sentiment. Usual rules though, the doomsayers only appear when the price is falling and market conditions are nervous and more volatile. It’s easier to latch on to fear than the other way around nowadays. We shall see.
Best Regards
Minglar
Westlondondriver said:
Article in the FT today about a potential Maserati IPO shows a graphic of selling prices by manufacturer - it seems to define ultra-luxury as cars with a selling price above €250k
"Ultra Luxury" just means extremely expensive. I'm not sure that it is tied up with the concept of 'sprezzatura', though it is interesting to read that sprezzatura is a Renaissance concept. I thought that it started with Gianni Agnelli. Maybe the idea is that giving the impression that you don't give a damn what stuff costs looks cool at some naive level. Branding is all very well, but I have Rolex or Omega or Longines and indeed Tissot watches because I perceive a quality and reliability which I like. If I gradually find that I can get exactly the same for a tenth of the price, then ultimately that's what I will do. V12 engines were introduced to Aston Martin for branding reasons. It started with the DB7 Vantage, and frankly it's not the first thing I think of when I think Aston Martin engine. I think of the 2.6 litre WO Bentley six from Lagonda, the wonderful 4.0 Tadek Marek designed straight six and the subsequent V8. It doesn't have to be a V12 to be an Aston Martin. Nor does it have to go from 0-60 in 3.2 seconds and reach 212 mph. It does have to be an Aston Martin.
Now, if Stroll's idea is that AML are going to be a company which applies badges to £2.5m hypercars built for them by third party specialists and that's it, then I'm out. If he is simply going to charge an insane fortune for his current products in the absence of real content (like an EV) then it's not going to work either, because the real marker is second hand value. All that will happen is that no-one will buy new, everyone will get deals on demonstrators or low mileage used cars at a massive discount. Where's the sprezzatura in that? Aston Martin is what Lionel Martin so perceptively described so many years ago, as I recall, "a fine car for the discerning driver with fast touring in mind". I couldn't put it better myself and no-one ever has. Yes, it is relatively expensive, but it is paid for by people who appreciate these things and bite the bullet. It should not be ridiculously expensive, which is just foolish.
Aston Martin is today as close to Lionel Martin's ideal as it ever has been. They have super-stylish high performing products which fit the above bill precisely, and they are on top of quality. If they did not have the historic debt, if they were not paying to be in F1 but focussed on sports car racing where they excel, and they had an automotive 'parent' like Mercedes Benz who could keep them on the front edge of technology (and I am NOT talking about EV) they would show Ferrari a clean pair of heels.
Edited by cardigankid on Monday 27th March 11:31
cardigankid said:
"Ultra Luxury" just means extremely expensive. I'm not sure that it is tied up with the concept of 'sprezzatura', though it is.
Now, if Stroll's idea is that AML are going to be a company which applies badges to £2.5m hypercars built for them by third party specialists and that's it, then I'm out. If he is simply going to charge an insane fortune for his current products in the absence of real content (like an EV) then it's not going to work either, because the real marker is second hand value. All that will happen is that no-one will buy new, everyone will get deals on demonstrators or low mileage used cars at a massive discount. Where's the sprezzatura in that? Aston Martin is what Lionel Martin so perceptively described so many years ago, as I recall, "a fine car for the discerning driver with fast touring in mind". I couldn't put it better myself and no-one ever has. Yes, it is relatively expensive, but it is paid for by people who appreciate these things and bite the bullet. It should not be ridiculously expensive, which is just foolish.
That’s the worry. That’s been his fashion model as I understand it. Now, if Stroll's idea is that AML are going to be a company which applies badges to £2.5m hypercars built for them by third party specialists and that's it, then I'm out. If he is simply going to charge an insane fortune for his current products in the absence of real content (like an EV) then it's not going to work either, because the real marker is second hand value. All that will happen is that no-one will buy new, everyone will get deals on demonstrators or low mileage used cars at a massive discount. Where's the sprezzatura in that? Aston Martin is what Lionel Martin so perceptively described so many years ago, as I recall, "a fine car for the discerning driver with fast touring in mind". I couldn't put it better myself and no-one ever has. Yes, it is relatively expensive, but it is paid for by people who appreciate these things and bite the bullet. It should not be ridiculously expensive, which is just foolish.
Edited by cardigankid on Monday 27th March 11:31
Aston Martin registered the Vanguard name:
https://carbuzz.com/news/aston-martin-vanguard-loo...
Thoughts?
Article connects it to an EV but I think an EV is very far away for AM. Of course AM does not need to use this name anytime soon..
Could it be the name for that third mid engine car that was first called Vanquish in their plans or is that project really dead? Or awaiting Nebula court case? Any news on that front btw?
I'm really looking forward to the DB12 unveiling. I hope it shows a new design direction, not just new parts and infotainment..
https://carbuzz.com/news/aston-martin-vanguard-loo...
Thoughts?
Article connects it to an EV but I think an EV is very far away for AM. Of course AM does not need to use this name anytime soon..
Could it be the name for that third mid engine car that was first called Vanquish in their plans or is that project really dead? Or awaiting Nebula court case? Any news on that front btw?
I'm really looking forward to the DB12 unveiling. I hope it shows a new design direction, not just new parts and infotainment..
Agent57 said:
I've already taken out a copyright on Aston Martin Voltage name.
Happy to allow use for a small fee of say 1 or 2% per car. Negotiable.
Make sure you go for a royalty per car, not a share of profits or you’ll be destitute. Happy to allow use for a small fee of say 1 or 2% per car. Negotiable.
Edited by SpeckledJim on Tuesday 28th March 11:29
After the Voltaire they could do a faster version called the Volare: being the Latin verb 'to fly'... Or indeed instead of Vantage, for the fast versions of the electric cars they could be the Volares as in Aston Martin Voltaire Volare. It may be a bit of a tongue twister if you wanted the convertible though - Aston Martin Voltaire Volare Volante.
I thank you
I thank you
M1AGM said:
Well this was the first google hit for ultra luxury
https://www.verbalidentity.com/luxury-vs-ultra-lux...
Eta:
In the ultra-luxury sector, the language centers on the feelings available to you as a passenger. The central axis remains Power, but the notion is that Grace is a rejection of any overt display of Power.
In the brands’ lexicon, abstract and concrete nouns such as “leather”, “comfort”, “experience”, “craftsmanship” abound. As a group, these concepts echo the Renaissance notion of sprezzatura, an (apparently carelessly achieved) quality of effortlessness. This is best illustrated by Bentley’s prominent display of its founder’s desires: “To build a fast car, a good car, the best in its class.” This sentence can be so admirably blunt because of the sophistication that is inherent in the brand’s identity
The ultra-luxury sector is ‘boundaried’ by the notion of sprezzatura. As such, the qualities of superior engineering, bespoke interiors, and stylish design, which their poor cousins in the luxury world work so hard to stress, are taken as inherent and go unmentioned by the ultra-luxury brands.
It’s essential to note that this notion of apparent carelessness is more readily thought of as a signaller of older, European-style class markers – particularly English class markers. We are reminded of the kind of person who uses ‘summer’ as a verb.
—-
Interesting.
I noticed other search results include UL holidays, flights, cruises.
This is a very interesting post - inspiring actually - sprezzatura as defined here could well be a model for 'ultra luxury' - "an apparently carelessly achieved quality of effortlessness". It has content - what I fear is that price itself without appropriate content becomes the defining factor. The trouble is that I am not sure that the AML management are sufficiently sophisticated to implement it. Marek Reichman is, for sure, but the money people? https://www.verbalidentity.com/luxury-vs-ultra-lux...
Eta:
In the ultra-luxury sector, the language centers on the feelings available to you as a passenger. The central axis remains Power, but the notion is that Grace is a rejection of any overt display of Power.
In the brands’ lexicon, abstract and concrete nouns such as “leather”, “comfort”, “experience”, “craftsmanship” abound. As a group, these concepts echo the Renaissance notion of sprezzatura, an (apparently carelessly achieved) quality of effortlessness. This is best illustrated by Bentley’s prominent display of its founder’s desires: “To build a fast car, a good car, the best in its class.” This sentence can be so admirably blunt because of the sophistication that is inherent in the brand’s identity
The ultra-luxury sector is ‘boundaried’ by the notion of sprezzatura. As such, the qualities of superior engineering, bespoke interiors, and stylish design, which their poor cousins in the luxury world work so hard to stress, are taken as inherent and go unmentioned by the ultra-luxury brands.
It’s essential to note that this notion of apparent carelessness is more readily thought of as a signaller of older, European-style class markers – particularly English class markers. We are reminded of the kind of person who uses ‘summer’ as a verb.
—-
Interesting.
I noticed other search results include UL holidays, flights, cruises.
Incidentally, M1AGM, I don't know if that is your plate, but it is a Motherwell & Wishaw registration from Central Lanarkshire.
cardigankid said:
This is a very interesting post - inspiring actually - sprezzatura as defined here could well be a model for 'ultra luxury' - "an apparently carelessly achieved quality of effortlessness". It has content - what I fear is that price itself without appropriate content becomes the defining factor. The trouble is that I am not sure that the AML management are sufficiently sophisticated to implement it. Marek Reichman is, for sure, but the money people?
Incidentally, M1AGM, I don't know if that is your plate, but it is a Motherwell & Wishaw registration from Central Lanarkshire.
Agree with that concern.Incidentally, M1AGM, I don't know if that is your plate, but it is a Motherwell & Wishaw registration from Central Lanarkshire.
Thanks for the info on my plate. I have owned it for 20 years and never knew that. How did you know?
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