AML - Stock Market Listing

[RobDown]

Jon - the reason you get criticism is that you know as well as I do that your figures are entirely misleading. Next you will tell us the NHS will benefit by £350m a week from Brexit.

As you know Jon, the UK is not the market for AML as it was back in 2006. The company has deliberately diversified over that period to avoid over-exposure to exactly what we’re seeing now (a UK market slowdown). So it’s misleading to compare one year with the other

Again as you know AML sales in 2018 were almost exactly the same as 2006. And 19H1 sales were up 6% on 18H1. And yet if I looked at your figures I would assume sales had dropped dramatically.

Finally, again as you know, the model range is somewhat different now compared with 2006. It’s not Vantage and DB9 (DB11). The Vanquish is now one of the most popular models, I believe with sales globally that comfortably outstrip the equivalent DBS. And of course smaller contributions from Rapide and the various Specials

I get it. You don’t like the new Vantage. You much prefer your older model. I share that view. But please, the one man crusade to criticise the new model (which appears to be selling well globally) is wearing a bit thin.

And before the usual suspects come to complain that I’m denying them their rights to be unremittingly miserable and negative about anything Aston Martin. I’m past caring, as are many others which is why most have us have shifted to WhatsApp Groups or FB. So don’t bother

[Cheib]

I agree that comparing the current production volumes/mix from those of 10 years ago is not that relevant....especially given the shift to overseas markets.
If anything the company is better placed from that perspective now than they were then...and using the UK as a metric for the financial health of the company is not really that valid given % of sales and the current economic situation in the UK.

Also I don't think using DVLA data is that worthwhile when Aston provide a geographical sales breakdown themselves!

https://www.astonmartinlagonda.com/investors/resul...

Reading through the info it's all about DBX and how quickly they can turn the sales into hard cash and deleverage....5 times leverage is scary and not sustainable for any length of time. Basically DBX has to deliver meaningful results quickly which feed through into a healthier looking p+l...assuming the car business stays roughly where it is in terms of sales.

Edited by Cheib on Sunday 13th October 16:05

Edited by Cheib on Sunday 13th October 16:22

[Venturist]

Dewi 2 said:

You can easily obtain the answer to your question.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-set...
The data set to download is VEH0160

Thank you, although some posters would prefer we are not allowed to post anything besides happy sunshine and rainbows, it is interesting to see that for the same dates in the same market, the rival Continental GT seems to be doing as well as ever, if not better.

Gen1, 2007 Q1: 151 (halfway through its lifecycle)
Gen2 launch, 2011 Q2: 244
Gen3, 2019 Q1: 269


Edit: I take no glee in this because I love the brand and want to see it succeed. I do it because I firmly believe they have missed the mark in various ways with the current cars, and want to see them accept it and improve rather than further bury heads in the sand. The Bentley is a good comparator because in my personal opinion they’ve done an excellent job with that particular car.

Edited by Venturist on Sunday 13th October 16:50

[RobDown]

Venturist said:

Thank you, although some posters would prefer we are not allowed to post anything besides happy sunshine and rainbows

Edit: I take no glee in this because I love the brand and want to see it succeed. I do it because I firmly believe they have missed the mark in various ways with the current cars, and want to see them accept it and improve rather than further bury heads in the sand. The Bentley is a good comparator because in my personal opinion they’ve done an excellent job with that particular car.

Edited by Venturist on Sunday 13th October 16:50

Nobody has ever said that Venturist. Stop playing the victim. You can post whatever you like under the pretext of “oh I just want AML to do better”.

But if it’s unreleased negativity or utter bs as some of the above posts are then I’ve got bored with it and I’m going to start calling it out for what it is. Call it freedom of speech if you like

[mrobin33]

RobDown said:

Nobody has ever said that Venturist. Stop playing the victim. You can post whatever you like under the pretext of “oh I just want AML to do better”.

But if it’s unreleased negativity or utter bs as some of the above posts are then I’ve got bored with it and I’m going to start calling it out for what it is. Call it freedom of speech if you like

Don’t read what you are bored by. That’s fine. But as soon as you start throwing toys about it usually means it’s not BS you’ve read but maybe some inconvenient truths.

I am an AM fan and have owned them from DB4 to V12V. Like many others, as an enthusiast, I’ve questioned the strategy and in this thread the rush to over-invest in a precariously risky business model. While wishing it well.

However the Vantage should be the junior model cash cow, as will hopefully be the DBX. It isn’t selling very well. Why is that bs?

[Ken Figenus]

Venturist said:

Thank you, although some posters would prefer we are not allowed to post anything besides happy sunshine and rainbows, it is interesting to see that for the same dates in the same market, the rival Continental GT seems to be doing as well as ever, if not better.

Gen1, 2007 Q1: 151 (halfway through its lifecycle)
Gen2 launch, 2011 Q2: 244
Gen3, 2019 Q1: 269


Edit: I take no glee in this because I love the brand and want to see it succeed. I do it because I firmly believe they have missed the mark in various ways with the current cars, and want to see them accept it and improve rather than further bury heads in the sand. The Bentley is a good comparator because in my personal opinion they’ve done an excellent job with that particular car.

Edited by Venturist on Sunday 13th October 16:50

I so agree.

The numbers published here speak for themselves and give little room for solace or spin or digging in - however uncomfortable.

As a huge marque fan boy I hope commercial reality bites far harder than platitudes and that success is seen as a manufacturer driven pragmatism for the future rather than customer reminiscing for the past. I think sales volumes speak louder than any disappointment or positioned opinion here.

And Clarkson also hammered the £250k DB11 in the paper today as well as them also running a horror story about Stratsone utterly fleecing a DB11 owner.

I hope the future is bright more than anyone. From the bottom of my heart and my adored Aston's!

[Buster73]

Ken Figenus said:

I so agree.

The numbers published here speak for themselves and give little room for solace or spin or digging in - however uncomfortable.

As a huge marque fan boy I hope commercial reality bites far harder than platitudes and that success is seen as a manufacturer driven pragmatism for the future rather than customer reminiscing for the past. I think sales volumes speak louder than any disappointment or positioned opinion here.

And Clarkson also hammered the £250k DB11 in the paper today as well as them also running a horror story about Stratsone utterly fleecing a DB11 owner.

I hope the future is bright more than anyone. From the bottom of my heart and my adored Aston's!

Clarkson wrote about the DBS Volante not the DB11 ,the other story is about finance not really about Stratstone “fleecing “ someone , it isn’t even newsworthy.

Check your facts before posting

[Cold]

I surprised by those DVLA numbers.

They're higher than I suspected.

[KevinBird]

Grim reading...

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/low-aston-martin...

Unless Mercedes Benz take control I fear for the worst. I live in the heart of Dyson country where a lot of friends have just lost their jobs as the Dyson car project turned out to be impossible for an independent and no buyer/partner wanted to take it on. What chance is there for AML with no major backer? Porsche, Ferrari etc are just brands of a much larger concerns and make great cars so time to pick up the phone to Germany before it’s too late or are MB waiting to buy on the cheap?

Edited by KevinBird on Monday 14th October 08:59

[p1stonhead]

12% is mental!

[Cheib]

Cold said:

I surprised by those DVLA numbers.

They're higher than I suspected.

That number tells you how many cars have been registered....not how many have been sold and what margin erosion (discounting) has been necessary to achieve that. Who knows how much of that discounting is dealers or Aston.

If you look through the accounts it’s almost like they broke even on their mainstream cars and things like all the Zagato special editions are what generated profits. There have been almost none of the latter this year which is why the numbers look markedly worse.

[Ken Figenus]

Buster73 said:

Clarkson wrote about the DBS Volante not the DB11 ,the other story is about finance not really about Stratstone “fleecing “ someone , it isn’t even newsworthy.

Check your facts before posting

£250k DB11 was not an error and the bigger picture on cost/value creates a negativity/fear that I wish would never touch the brand or harm it: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/forced-to-pay-1...

[cardigankid]

AM finance deals are either nonsensical or very bad value, but that’s probably because they don’t have any choice. Like the man above I am and have always been an Aston Martin fan. That does not mean that I have to adore the current management. If I hated AM I wouldn’t have owned several and still do. I think Reichman has done an inspired job with the DB11, but I can’t say that the new Vantage appeals. I think that I am entitled to my view that the interiors have not had the attention they deserve. Most of all, I cannot understand how any of you can be supportive of Andy Palmer who has deliberately raped the company for his personal benefit.

The sooner the company is in the hands of MB the better.

[AstonZagato]

cardigankid said:

The sooner the company is in the hands of MB the better.

Of all the possible partners, MB is one that really doesn't fill me with hope. They don't seem to 'get' brands in the way that BMW or VW do. They just want trim levels.

[DB9VolanteDriver]

AstonZagato said:

cardigankid said:

The sooner the company is in the hands of MB the better.

Of all the possible partners, MB is one that really doesn't fill me with hope. They don't seem to 'get' brands in the way that BMW or VW do. They just want trim levels.

Too bad Ford couldn't be convinced to buy back their old friend. They certainly did right by the brand. Nowadays, I think a company like Hyundai would be a good fit, sorta like Tata with JLR. A deep pockets, low end player would be a far better partner than a luxury brand since they would treat AM as the jewel in their crown.

[hornbaek]

If MB would be interested in AML they would have bought the Company long time ago. VW Group, run by Piëch at the time embarked on a number of vanity projects buying up the likes of Lamborghini, Bugatti and Ducati but i doubt whether these acquisitions made much sense in the bigger VW picture. The same would be said about MB. Adding a couple of thousand vehicle sales to total MB sales wouldn’t move the needle.

[avinalarf]

Ken Figenus said:

Buster73 said:

Clarkson wrote about the DBS Volante not the DB11 ,the other story is about finance not really about Stratstone “fleecing “ someone , it isn’t even newsworthy.

Check your facts before posting

£250k DB11 was not an error and the bigger picture on cost/value creates a negativity/fear that I wish would never touch the brand or harm it: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/forced-to-pay-1...

You're wrong Ken.
The £250K Aston was the DBS volante,
JC was comparing it to the DB11 and concluding that the DB11 was a better resolved car at £100K less.

[Buster73]

avinalarf said:

You're wrong Ken.
The £250K Aston was the DBS volante,
JC was comparing it to the DB11 and concluding that the DB11 was a better resolved car at £100K less.

Thanks , I thought I was going daft.

[GingerMunky]

RobDown said:

I’m past caring, as are many others which is why most have us have shifted to WhatsApp Groups or FB. So don’t bother

^^^ this as do most others best to leave Pistonheads to the loonies, trolls and opinionated village idiots.

[8Speed]

GingerMunky said:

RobDown said:

I’m past caring, as are many others which is why most have us have shifted to WhatsApp Groups or FB. So don’t bother

^^^ this as do most others best to leave Pistonheads to the loonies, trolls and opinionated village idiots.

That's a shame.
There's been so much good stuff on here over the years which has informed many people and I'm not a great fan of FB.