New DBS Superleggera
Discussion
petop said:
Just a quick comment but the picture above triggered something.
The "old" DB9, DBS, Vanquish and Vantage if you were to put them together there was distinct DNA through the whole design.
You now do that with the new DB11, DBS and Vantage and whilst DB11 and DBS have some design clues it seems to go out of the window with the Vantage.....almost as if yoof type stylists designed it. Yes, yes they need to attract certain clientele but at the price being sold i think its yoof Youtubers who "buy" cars are the only ones that drive them in that category.
The difference in design is the whole point though surely (whether we like the Vantage or not)?The "old" DB9, DBS, Vanquish and Vantage if you were to put them together there was distinct DNA through the whole design.
You now do that with the new DB11, DBS and Vantage and whilst DB11 and DBS have some design clues it seems to go out of the window with the Vantage.....almost as if yoof type stylists designed it. Yes, yes they need to attract certain clientele but at the price being sold i think its yoof Youtubers who "buy" cars are the only ones that drive them in that category.
Yes, and whilst the lineage and family resemblance was strong previously.. it was a difficult thing to manage.
You had arguably one of THE most gorgeous shapes as a 'base'... so do not mess with it!... but then as sure as night follows day... "Every car looks the same!" whinge whinge whinge.
Now so far DB11 and DBS have very strong links.... Vantage not so much, still clearly an AM though...whether you like the Vantage more or less, is up to you, but it's something to celebrate when a manufacturer can produce multiple models that have a common and unmistakable aesthetic but are also clearly distinct.
You had arguably one of THE most gorgeous shapes as a 'base'... so do not mess with it!... but then as sure as night follows day... "Every car looks the same!" whinge whinge whinge.
Now so far DB11 and DBS have very strong links.... Vantage not so much, still clearly an AM though...whether you like the Vantage more or less, is up to you, but it's something to celebrate when a manufacturer can produce multiple models that have a common and unmistakable aesthetic but are also clearly distinct.
Quickmoose said:
Now so far DB11 and DBS have very strong links.... Vantage not so much, still clearly an AM though...whether you like the Vantage more or less, is up to you, but it's something to celebrate when a manufacturer can produce multiple models that have a common and unmistakable aesthetic but are also clearly distinct.
^^^^this^^^^petop said:
Just a quick comment but the picture above triggered something.
The "old" DB9, DBS, Vanquish and Vantage if you were to put them together there was distinct DNA through the whole design.
You now do that with the new DB11, DBS and Vantage and whilst DB11 and DBS have some design clues it seems to go out of the window with the Vantage.....almost as if yoof type stylists designed it. Yes, yes they need to attract certain clientele but at the price being sold i think its yoof Youtubers who "buy" cars are the only ones that drive them in that category.
The "old" DB9, DBS, Vanquish and Vantage if you were to put them together there was distinct DNA through the whole design.
You now do that with the new DB11, DBS and Vantage and whilst DB11 and DBS have some design clues it seems to go out of the window with the Vantage.....almost as if yoof type stylists designed it. Yes, yes they need to attract certain clientele but at the price being sold i think its yoof Youtubers who "buy" cars are the only ones that drive them in that category.
That seemed to be their plan from the beginning Ross, to make the Vantage appearance very different, and attractive to younger buyers. That is where the Andy‘s mother quote came from.
Here something with a DBSS connection.
In year 2000, Wayne Burgess was working with Ian Callum, on designs for the DB9 and the Vantage.
He has now revealed an early drawing of the DB9. At that stage, Ian Callum wanted the design to be softer and more elegant.
Interesting how the rear haunches have similarities to the Gen 1 Vanquish, and the DBSS.
Edited by Jon39 on Wednesday 6th February 17:02
Jon39 said:
That seemed to be their plan from the beginning Ross, to make the Vantage appearance very different, and attractive to younger buyers. That is where the Andy‘s mother quote came from.
I don't go for the " young buyer " argument.
A car either has aesthetic appeal, to a majority, or not and that goes for all Marques, not just Astons.
There are choices of exotic and supercars out there to satisfy the aesthetic criteria of most people.
With the exception of the Vantage the majority of comments on styling of the new range of Astons have been very positive.
So why the many negative comments on the styling of the Vantage.
Why ?
Simply because it ain't quite right.
It's not awful or anything but it's just not quite right.
Another important factor is that Astons tend to be bought by those that want a discreetly styled car, nothing too in your face and with a big nod to the heritage of the brand.
The much quoted evolution not revolution.
I give you the One77 as an example of what I consider to be one of the finest examples of everthing that embodies AM styling at its finest,young or old buyer cannot disagree with that.
Edited by avinalarf on Wednesday 6th February 17:08
Edited by avinalarf on Wednesday 6th February 17:11
avinalarf said:
Jon39 said:
That seemed to be their plan from the beginning Ross, to make the Vantage appearance very different, and attractive to younger buyers. That is where the Andy‘s mother quote came from.
I don't go for the " young buyer " argument.
A car either has aesthetic appeal, to a majority, or not and that goes for all Marques, not just Astons.
There are choices of exotic and supercars out there to satisfy the aesthetic criteria of most people.
With the exception of the Vantage the majority of comments on styling of the new range of Astons have been very positive.
So why the many negative comments on the styling of the Vantage.
Why ?
Simply because it ain't quite right.
It's not awful or anything but it's just not quite right.
Another important factor is that Astons tend to be bought by those that want a discreetly styled car, nothing too in your face and with a big nod to the heritage of the brand.
The much quoted evolution not revolution.
I give you the One77 as an example of what I consider to be one of the finest examples of everthing that embodies AM styling at its finest,young or old buyer cannot disagree with that.
Dont want to derail the thread so apologise but as i brought it up but if the Vantage design came from someone else it would sell well (probably though would have to be a cheaper price) but as AM's mainstream model i think it does not work. Now if the new Vantage was a smaller scale DBS with same styling clues then i think you could charge whatever for it........a V8 DBS and swap the carbon for ally?????
RobDown said:
It’s needed to cool the turbos apparently. Even the grill design is designed to maximise airflow
I guess it doesn’t need to be all black though?. Albeit I have to say I quite like it personally, looks quite menacing
I guess it doesn’t need to be all black though?. Albeit I have to say I quite like it personally, looks quite menacing
Yes, I heard the cooling requirement comment from Miles Nurnberger, Director of Design at Aston Martin during a DBSS video filmed at Gaydon.
If a certain area of front intake is required, what do you think of the GTE solution? The front intake total area might be fairly similar to the DBSS, but it does retain the 50 year traditional grille appearance, for those who do like the long standing design feature.
AM and several other car makers have now introduced very large front grilles. Rover might have been one of the first, but perhaps they knew that Audi were about to do the same.
Edited by Jon39 on Saturday 16th February 13:17
RobDown said:
Someone will correct me on this, but my guess is that the DBSS, wth the v12 and the turbos cranked up to 11 probably produced more heat than the V8 (and possibly with things deturned for BoP regs??).
Would be educational to have one of the engine experts give a view
Would be educational to have one of the engine experts give a view
I am sure that you are right Rob on that aspect.
As mentioned, my thought was that the total area of all the GTE front intakes (combined), might be roughly equal to the area of the single DBSS front grille. If so, then the volume of air flow would be the same, to deal with the DBSS engine heat.
Edited by Jon39 on Friday 15th February 14:32
RobDown said:
Someone will correct me on this, but my guess is that the DBSS, wth the v12 and the turbos cranked up to 11 probably produced more heat than the V8 (and possibly with things deturned for BoP regs??).
Would be educational to have one of the engine experts give a view
No expert here, but generally speaking, because the architecture of the AM31 engine is that of a more traditional turbo layout (turbos mounted outside the cylinder heads), cooling of the turbos isn't as much of an issue as it is in a hot-vee i.e. the 4.0 V8 where they nestle inside the heads. It's worth mentioning of course that the principle of the hot-vee is to produce heat in the turbos to mitigate lag, but with a ceiling before they become so hot they become less efficient. Would be educational to have one of the engine experts give a view
Back to the V12 though, the state of tune in the DBSS means it's worked that bit harder and radiates a chunk more heat, so some of the hardware (inter coolers and radiators predominantly) become slightly larger to provide more surface area. The advantage in a mid-engine car is there's the room around the front axle to cant the radiator(s) over (a la Ford GT / Ferrari etc) to achieve big surface areas and keep the nose of the car quite low. The DBSS hasn't that amount of space, hence the nose is a bit taller to provide the surface area required, by which point the styling department encompass the required area is an aesthetically pleasing shape - in this case a quite imposing grille that has Aston heritage but a modern twist.
When the Vantage spawns a more savage version, I'd expect things like the bonnet vents on Dr. AP's car to become a standard feature, as getting cold air in and hot air out becomes more important as the engines are leaned on and start running more boost.
Jon39 said:
I am sure that you are right Rob on that aspect.
As mentioned, my thought was that the total area of all the GTE front intakes (combined), might be roughly equal to the area of the single DBSS front grille. If so, then the volume of air flow would be the same, to deal with the DBSS engine heat.
Edited by Jon39 on Friday 15th February 14:32
The intakes at the bottom corners of the GTE car will probably be for brake cooling too
George29 said:
It’s not just the air in surface area, it’s also air out. The GTE car vents the air through the rad then through ducts to the vent in the bonnet. DBS does have small bonnet vents but the air isn’t going to get out as efficiently as the GTE. The majority of it is just going to go in the engine bay and work it’s way out wherever it can.
Welcome back George, 'long time no hear'. Hope everything is going well for you, and do keep to 9/10ths when racing your motor bike.
You will be pleased to know that my very basic engineering skills do include, limit of air out equals limit of air in. I raised the point because I just wondered if the GTE front with several separate front grilles, would be sufficient to keep a DBSS engine within max temperature. If the answer is yes, then presumably the very large front grille is partly for appearance. Of course they have to consider the (export) country with the hottest climate.
Jon39 said:
Welcome back George, 'long time no hear'. Hope everything is going well for you, and do keep to 9/10ths when racing your motor bike.
You will be pleased to know that my very basic engineering skills do include, limit of air out equals limit of air in. I raised the point because I just wondered if the GTE front with several separate front grilles, would be sufficient to keep a DBSS engine within max temperature. If the answer is yes, then presumably the very large front grille is partly for appearance. Of course they have to consider the (export) country with the hottest climate.
it’s going alright thanks, just back from a bit of Spanish testing and off in 2 weeks to do some more 
You also have to consider that the rad in the GTE car isn’t designed for the car being stationary for long periods, or stuck in stop/start traffic. I suspect you could shrink the open area needed by putting in a less restrictive grille but then that might not meet the styling requirements
George29 said:
Jon39 said:
Welcome back George, 'long time no hear'. Hope everything is going well for you, and do keep to 9/10ths when racing your motor bike.
You will be pleased to know that my very basic engineering skills do include, limit of air out equals limit of air in. I raised the point because I just wondered if the GTE front with several separate front grilles, would be sufficient to keep a DBSS engine within max temperature. If the answer is yes, then presumably the very large front grille is partly for appearance. Of course they have to consider the (export) country with the hottest climate.
it’s going alright thanks, just back from a bit of Spanish testing and off in 2 weeks to do some more You also have to consider that the rad in the GTE car isn’t designed for the car being stationary for long periods, or stuck in stop/start traffic. I suspect you could shrink the open area needed by putting in a less restrictive grille but then that might not meet the styling requirements
George....how nice to have you back.
Have you still got your Aston ?
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