Confused on servicing - cost and what needs to be done
Discussion
Just got my friendly local dealer to quote for a service. They want £761 for an oil change.
I'm confused as to what needs doing as last time it was also just an oil change too. So that is in 12,000 miles over 2 years - no rear diff fluid change and no auto trans fluid change? I've already done the air filters myself - these def need doing every 12000- 15000 miles. Guess they are doing the unnecessary brake fluid change too - same stuff lasts 3 years in other 170 mph+ cars.
The MD's say they have gone more 'mileage based' now as I told them I don't want the spark plugs done year 7 as she's only done 40k - I'll maybe have them done next year and whip out the manifold cats same time too in case they ever crumble - ohh and it adds 40bhp with some 200 cell cats downstream for MOT
Guess what I'm really asking is should I just forget the stamps now she is designated a keeper and oil service her myself for £76 not £761... Thats £600 towards the de-cat
I'm confused as to what needs doing as last time it was also just an oil change too. So that is in 12,000 miles over 2 years - no rear diff fluid change and no auto trans fluid change? I've already done the air filters myself - these def need doing every 12000- 15000 miles. Guess they are doing the unnecessary brake fluid change too - same stuff lasts 3 years in other 170 mph+ cars.
The MD's say they have gone more 'mileage based' now as I told them I don't want the spark plugs done year 7 as she's only done 40k - I'll maybe have them done next year and whip out the manifold cats same time too in case they ever crumble - ohh and it adds 40bhp with some 200 cell cats downstream for MOT
Guess what I'm really asking is should I just forget the stamps now she is designated a keeper and oil service her myself for £76 not £761... Thats £600 towards the de-cat
I've owned my 1962 rotbox since 1979 so it's a keeper, and have the maintenance history from new, piles of invoices detailing work done, but in this context absolutely no meaningless stamps. It gets what's judged necessary for safety, performance and legality
Those of you who chop and change newer cars probably need stamps because otherwise you have nothing to substantiate provenance
If it's a keeper, you can probably work out what needs doing and when, excluding the categories of work called propping up the dealer network and exonerating AML of blame for poor product.
A good indie with the right test kit should be a great ally as you move away from MDs and their box-ticking approach to condition based maintenance founded on engineering
Discuss!
Those of you who chop and change newer cars probably need stamps because otherwise you have nothing to substantiate provenance
If it's a keeper, you can probably work out what needs doing and when, excluding the categories of work called propping up the dealer network and exonerating AML of blame for poor product.
A good indie with the right test kit should be a great ally as you move away from MDs and their box-ticking approach to condition based maintenance founded on engineering
Discuss!
DB4DM said:
I've owned my 1962 rotbox since 1979 so it's a keeper, and have the maintenance history from new, piles of invoices detailing work done, but in this context absolutely no meaningless stamps. It gets what's judged necessary for safety, performance and legality
Those of you who chop and change newer cars probably need stamps because otherwise you have nothing to substantiate provenance
If it's a keeper, you can probably work out what needs doing and when, excluding the categories of work called propping up the dealer network and exonerating AML of blame for poor product.
A good indie with the right test kit should be a great ally as you move away from MDs and their box-ticking approach to condition based maintenance founded on engineering
Discuss!
Nice words!Those of you who chop and change newer cars probably need stamps because otherwise you have nothing to substantiate provenance
If it's a keeper, you can probably work out what needs doing and when, excluding the categories of work called propping up the dealer network and exonerating AML of blame for poor product.
A good indie with the right test kit should be a great ally as you move away from MDs and their box-ticking approach to condition based maintenance founded on engineering
Discuss!
Of course there are lots owners who can't work on their own cars and so very fairly pay the premium associated with that on newer cars.
But I agree, anything that will genuinely be kept and is a little bit older I believe benefits from an independent/owner maintainence schedule
Manx V8V said:
Ken Figenus said:
Guess what I'm really asking is should I just forget the stamps now she is designated a keeper and oil service her myself for £76 not £761... Thats £600 towards the de-cat
I would say more like £176.00 as long as you go for the proper spec oil. 0W40 I believe and I use Castrol Edge FST with a genuine oil filter. That should come to about £150.00. Still £500 cheaper and that should pay for a secondary decat.£761 seems steep for just an oil and brake fluid change service, year 1,3 and 9 services. 
Changing the brake fluid EVERY year just seems bonkers, will main dealers deviate from the AM Service Schedule if you have a below average mileage between services?
The massive mark up on oil is bad enough, so much so I bought my oil, the exact same grade, spec, and manufacturer the dealer would use from the AutoFactors across the road from the main dealer and saved £85
I always find this web page handy for working out what is being done and when...
http://www.davidapplebyengineering.com/Automotive/...
Changing the brake fluid EVERY year just seems bonkers, will main dealers deviate from the AM Service Schedule if you have a below average mileage between services?
The massive mark up on oil is bad enough, so much so I bought my oil, the exact same grade, spec, and manufacturer the dealer would use from the AutoFactors across the road from the main dealer and saved £85
I always find this web page handy for working out what is being done and when...
http://www.davidapplebyengineering.com/Automotive/...
I don't find the pricing too bad
http://www.astonmartin.com/en/ownership/servicing#...
You should be able to get 10% discount from the above by asking nicely. Or use an Indy and save more no doubt (but keep in mind the DAE pricing below excludes VAT whereas the AM pricing above includes it).
Too many memories of lying in the dirt, struggling with screws, nuts and washers and oil running down my arm so I consider this good value and the car gets a health check (what if you miss something important or dangerous without the benefit of a ramp?) and gets any other updates applied and I get to look underneath as well and lots of expensive free coffee and/or a test drive in something interesting.
Personally, based on experience, I would replace the air and pollen filters every 2 years irrespective of mileage which DAE seems to suggest whereas AM have only as a 'recommendation' which is something I think they should change.
http://www.astonmartin.com/en/ownership/servicing#...
You should be able to get 10% discount from the above by asking nicely. Or use an Indy and save more no doubt (but keep in mind the DAE pricing below excludes VAT whereas the AM pricing above includes it).
Too many memories of lying in the dirt, struggling with screws, nuts and washers and oil running down my arm so I consider this good value and the car gets a health check (what if you miss something important or dangerous without the benefit of a ramp?) and gets any other updates applied and I get to look underneath as well and lots of expensive free coffee and/or a test drive in something interesting.
Personally, based on experience, I would replace the air and pollen filters every 2 years irrespective of mileage which DAE seems to suggest whereas AM have only as a 'recommendation' which is something I think they should change.
Thanks for the input guys. They are really great guys in Bristol and have looked after me well without similar penny-pinching so I'll just have a straight chat with them - they know I'm tight already LOL But yes I think it's now just about practical maintenance as is required, not routine stamps in the book. Until it starts appreciating maybe
And John I do get the 'chippings in the back of the head' thing but I have access to a ramp at The Ramp Room
Its brilliant and they help you if you need smaller hands for that last airbox bolt, advice, or a bit of heat to get a bolt off! Love getting my hands dirty again after going soft!
Its the only way to do these bugger$$ too:
But yes I think it's now just about practical maintenance as is required, not routine stamps in the book. Until it starts appreciating maybe And John I do get the 'chippings in the back of the head' thing but I have access to a ramp at The Ramp Room
Its brilliant and they help you if you need smaller hands for that last airbox bolt, advice, or a bit of heat to get a bolt off! Love getting my hands dirty again after going soft!
Its the only way to do these bugger$$ too:
£761 just for an oil change is ridiculous. I bought all the service parts from Aston and will get my local who are superb and very caring to do the job.
just over £200 for parts and probably another £150 for them, that's air filters .oil filter, sump bolt, brake fluid. pollen filters, then plus the Mobile 1.
Plus i know its been done with care and properly.
just over £200 for parts and probably another £150 for them, that's air filters .oil filter, sump bolt, brake fluid. pollen filters, then plus the Mobile 1.
Plus i know its been done with care and properly.
When I had the vantage and needed an off-piste oil change (leaking injector could have contaminated the oil with fuel, didn't want to take the risk) I bought the oil (Castrol Edge Supercar) on offer on ebay, the service kit from Aston Bits and then paid a very respected midlands based Aston Indy an hours labour to do the job - the whole thing worked out just over £200.
They were great, gave me a tour of their facility including vintage race cars and DB5's/6's being restored, and a far far better experience than either of the MD's I tried. I really don't know what you get for the £760!
They were great, gave me a tour of their facility including vintage race cars and DB5's/6's being restored, and a far far better experience than either of the MD's I tried. I really don't know what you get for the £760!
Shrimpvende said:
I really don't know what you get for the £760!
I do!Obviously, a service consists of 2 parts: the consumables needed at the given point in time and the inspection.
All Gaydon era cars are pretty simple and straightforward to change the consumables on, meaning more or less, any competent technician can renew those. That means whatever the difference between the absolute cost of the service minus the raw materials price is the cost of the most important part of the service - the inspection / the technicians time.
The inspection should highlight remedial action needed at time of service plus preventative maintenance. The preventative maintenance is crucial.
For example on DB9, omit the air filters and there will be no meaningful examination of breather circuit status. Couple that with no hook up to AMDS diagnostic kit to check for a level of misfire which is not detectable by the driver, and the result is a car sent out for another year harbouring misfire and consuming oil which will ultimately fail the engine from catalyst ingesting causing a repair bill in most cases of early DB9, not too short off the value of the car.
In that example, put a price on a ‘quality’ inspection??!!
A service is more than ramming in some consumables you’ve bought from Costco at the cheapest price you know!
Take the absolute price in this example of £760, minus VAT and price of oil & filter, brake fluid and other sundries leaves about £400-450. A decent inspection and renewal of said consumables will take 6hrs which in this example equates to approx £70p/h for the garage - seems fair enough to me?? Because, considering the garages likely overheads, which I’d put at, say, £30k a month just to open the doors. £30k divided by 20 working days in the month means to break even the garage needs to bill out approx £1500 per day meaning if all it were doing was servicing, 3 services per day would be needed to break even - I doubt even the most prolific main dealer in the UK is stamping 15 service books per week??!! So if anyone was going to start a business only servicing Aston’s at the price stated, it’s not exactly going to turn into the most profitable venture in the World! Yet you clearly reckon at the price stated the consumer is being fleeced! I think your incorrect accusation stems from being totally naive to the real cost of doing business in the UK, which you will only understand if you opened a garage yourself.
Its exactly the same example as eating at a restaurant...
£100 for 2, but the ingredients only cost £20
Its a rip off etc etc.
But as soon as you start considering the direct and indirect overheads, then they don't make much 'profit'. (Yes you can probably complain about wine prices, but its all part of the experience)
That's why you see so many places closing down.
Customers want everything for 'less', but the costs continually go up.
I would never open a restaurant and definitely not a car repair garage
£100 for 2, but the ingredients only cost £20
Its a rip off etc etc.
But as soon as you start considering the direct and indirect overheads, then they don't make much 'profit'. (Yes you can probably complain about wine prices, but its all part of the experience)
That's why you see so many places closing down.
Customers want everything for 'less', but the costs continually go up.
I would never open a restaurant and definitely not a car repair garage
R129 300SL said:
I have had one of these services at a dealer albeit the cheaper one at £651, so minus the brake fluid.
It was done while I waited. Took about 2hrs max.
It is essentially an oil service with a load of checks..
Air filters not included / checked.
If that example was on a DB9, which from your posting history is what I guess you have....It was done while I waited. Took about 2hrs max.
It is essentially an oil service with a load of checks..
Air filters not included / checked.
The words service and 2hrs in same sentence is very comical.
In this example £651 minus the VAT and raw materials leaves approx £400, so the garage has bagged £200 p/h - now that’s the example of a garage printing money!!
Pick your example of what they didn’t do during the care / inspection part of the service? Perhaps they didn’t Back off the handbrake cable completely, lube it up and then reset it? Probably not, then when you need new handbrake pads in the future which requires handbrake cable backing off, it’ll be seized and you’ll need a new one, £147 parts and 5ish hours labour cos the drivers seat has to come out to fit it. Good example where backing off the preventative maintenance during service causes a larger spend for the owner in the longer run - but wait, it’s a double winner for the garage. £200 p/h for changing oil and then the labour rate to fix the car which only failed due to poor service regime, and that service regime costed £200 p/h labour rate! That’s insane!
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