V12V carbon ceramic Q’s
Discussion
LiamV12V said:
Update: there is nothing wrong with my pads according to the dealer. I’ll have to keep a close eye on them and see what happens to the marks but they don’t think there’s any need to do anything at this point.
Car on way back to me.
Any thoughts...
You could measure the distance from the pad face at point of contact with disc to the pad backing plate. Car on way back to me.
Any thoughts...
From the backing plate, the friction material of a brand new pad is 10.7mm
From the backing plate, the mounting pins breakthrough @ 6mm - which is the distance in my pic marked in red.
If you measure greater than 6mm, all is good. 6mm or less, time to change the pad.
You could ask a dealer for their comments on the difference between when the wear lead triggers (3mm) to when the pins breakthrough (6mm). The pins are required for strength and perhaps the theory is the soft pin material will not adversely wear the disc during that 3mm window. My experience is to the contrary, perhaps because in use over years of thermal cycles a sort of tempering process has taken place? and in that 3mm window of pin breakthrough to the wear lead illumination, damage to the disc will occur.
V8V Pete said:
My understanding is that you cannot inspect the pads on V12V front brakes without removing the calipers. So my first thought would be to have a look at the caliper bolts to see if they've been removed recently. If not then they've just eyeballed the pads in situ which won't tell you anything about pin breakthrough 
The callipers were off as they specifically stated they’d had to get new bolts.BamfordMike said:
You could measure the distance from the pad face at point of contact with disc to the pad backing plate.
From the backing plate, the friction material of a brand new pad is 10.7mm
From the backing plate, the mounting pins breakthrough @ 6mm - which is the distance in my pic marked in red.
If you measure greater than 6mm, all is good. 6mm or less, time to change the pad.
You could ask a dealer for their comments on the difference between when the wear lead triggers (3mm) to when the pins breakthrough (6mm). The pins are required for strength and perhaps the theory is the soft pin material will not adversely wear the disc during that 3mm window. My experience is to the contrary, perhaps because in use over years of thermal cycles a sort of tempering process has taken place? and in that 3mm window of pin breakthrough to the wear lead illumination, damage to the disc will occur.
They measured the pads as 8mm front and 7mm at the back. I’d estimated approx 5-6mm all round.From the backing plate, the friction material of a brand new pad is 10.7mm
From the backing plate, the mounting pins breakthrough @ 6mm - which is the distance in my pic marked in red.
If you measure greater than 6mm, all is good. 6mm or less, time to change the pad.
You could ask a dealer for their comments on the difference between when the wear lead triggers (3mm) to when the pins breakthrough (6mm). The pins are required for strength and perhaps the theory is the soft pin material will not adversely wear the disc during that 3mm window. My experience is to the contrary, perhaps because in use over years of thermal cycles a sort of tempering process has taken place? and in that 3mm window of pin breakthrough to the wear lead illumination, damage to the disc will occur.
They seem to think it may be grit etc which has found its way in between the disc and the pad. Which must happen on CCBs just the same as steels, presumably?
As there’s no physical damage e.g grooving at this point they are saying to wait and see if the situation develops any further.
I’m baffled, as I said at the start I’ve never seen running marks like this on pics of CCBs...
kev1966900 said:
Liam, Bill and the guys at AM Edinburgh are usually pretty good. However I did hear that Roddy McAllister their Dealer principle was going to be the AMOC area rep. Drop him a note if you've still got concerns and i'm sure he'll look into it for you
Yes, I’ve spoken to Bill a couple of times now and he’s spot on. I’ve no problem with Edinburgh’s service on this issue, they’ve been very helpful and understanding.Phil57DBS said:
Here in Europe Pagid provides Brembo.
used the original equivalents, half price, slightly better grip, no noise and good disc life :
PAGID RSC1 4941 front
PAGID RSC1 4943 rear
For all Aston V12 with CCM
http://www.pagidracing.com/files/Public/Downloads/...
RSC2 and RSC3 are specific Track and Race, not good for daily cars
For all Carbon pads, mandatory break-in procedure
Phil I'm assuming you are running these currently? I need new pads on my DBS and am considering these especially if the RSC1 pads won't make as much noise as factory and won't wear away at the carbon ceramic rotors any faster than the OEM pads (I don't plan on tracking my car). Do the factory pad wear sensors hook up to these Pagid pads too? used the original equivalents, half price, slightly better grip, no noise and good disc life :
PAGID RSC1 4941 front
PAGID RSC1 4943 rear
For all Aston V12 with CCM
http://www.pagidracing.com/files/Public/Downloads/...
RSC2 and RSC3 are specific Track and Race, not good for daily cars
For all Carbon pads, mandatory break-in procedure
Edited by Phil57DBS on Tuesday 2nd October 08:52
Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much info out there on OEM alternatives for pads.
Yes i am running these currently .
Factory pad wear sensors hook up to these Pagid pads too.
They make no noise versus used OEM pads and have a better feeling to the pedal...
you have too those in US :
answer from RacingBrake :
We have sintered brake pads specifically made for CCM rotors which is far more superior than RSC in COF (@.6 -.65 vs. .4) and durability, however they were made to ZR1/Z28 shapes and require modification for DBS calipers which can only be made to order with $160 extra cost.
Track/Race only: http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-Front-Rear-XC-41-Sin...
Streetable track: http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-Front-Rear-XC-40-Tra...
hope this helps
Phil
Factory pad wear sensors hook up to these Pagid pads too.
They make no noise versus used OEM pads and have a better feeling to the pedal...
you have too those in US :
answer from RacingBrake :
We have sintered brake pads specifically made for CCM rotors which is far more superior than RSC in COF (@.6 -.65 vs. .4) and durability, however they were made to ZR1/Z28 shapes and require modification for DBS calipers which can only be made to order with $160 extra cost.
Track/Race only: http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-Front-Rear-XC-41-Sin...
Streetable track: http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-Front-Rear-XC-40-Tra...
hope this helps
Phil
Great I’m going to give them a shot and will make sure to report back.
No modification is needed for them to fit correct? If so these seem to be the only non-OEM direct fit option for these cars.
No modification is needed for them to fit correct? If so these seem to be the only non-OEM direct fit option for these cars.
Phil57DBS said:
Yes i am running these currently .
Factory pad wear sensors hook up to these Pagid pads too.
They make no noise versus used OEM pads and have a better feeling to the pedal...
you have too those in US :
answer from RacingBrake :
We have sintered brake pads specifically made for CCM rotors which is far more superior than RSC in COF (@.6 -.65 vs. .4) and durability, however they were made to ZR1/Z28 shapes and require modification for DBS calipers which can only be made to order with $160 extra cost.
Track/Race only: http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-Front-Rear-XC-41-Sin...
Streetable track: http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-Front-Rear-XC-40-Tra...
hope this helps
Phil
Factory pad wear sensors hook up to these Pagid pads too.
They make no noise versus used OEM pads and have a better feeling to the pedal...
you have too those in US :
answer from RacingBrake :
We have sintered brake pads specifically made for CCM rotors which is far more superior than RSC in COF (@.6 -.65 vs. .4) and durability, however they were made to ZR1/Z28 shapes and require modification for DBS calipers which can only be made to order with $160 extra cost.
Track/Race only: http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-Front-Rear-XC-41-Sin...
Streetable track: http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-Front-Rear-XC-40-Tra...
hope this helps
Phil
I changed my pads and in the process I asked my dealer to weigh the discs so that i get some kind of indication about their life. Dealer absolutely refused to tuch the discs. Aparantly they are very hard to take off without being damaged. I pushed hard to have them removed, cleand and weight but they did not give in saying that if they would be damaged that would me on me and they would not take any responsibility for it. Anyone has experience on this?
vpr said:
How many miles with normal road use would you expect t front pads to last on a V12v?
Im sure 35k Miles was mentioned to me some years ago. But what is normal use? If your habit is to late brake then that may be normal to you. I wonder if non-track use is a better phrase and also is there a lot of variation in mileage before change of pads. Another question to ponder, if mileage is 30k+ before pad change I’m wondering how many of uk V12Vs actually have that sort of mileage?
A-DBS said:
I changed my pads and in the process I asked my dealer to weigh the discs so that i get some kind of indication about their life. Dealer absolutely refused to tuch the discs. Aparantly they are very hard to take off without being damaged. I pushed hard to have them removed, cleand and weight but they did not give in saying that if they would be damaged that would me on me and they would not take any responsibility for it. Anyone has experience on this?
I took mine off to check the balance; this was at 7k miles. They were easier to get off than some other discs I had the pleasure or removing. A 2x4 behind the disc and small taps at many angular positions did the trick for me. Don't know how having more miles would've affected ease of removal.A-DBS said:
I changed my pads and in the process I asked my dealer to weigh the discs so that i get some kind of indication about their life. Dealer absolutely refused to tuch the discs. Aparantly they are very hard to take off without being damaged. I pushed hard to have them removed, cleand and weight but they did not give in saying that if they would be damaged that would me on me and they would not take any responsibility for it. Anyone has experience on this?
Yes quite. I cant imaging many dealers wanting to do this and if they did i can imagine the cost being high. I think if the disc surface looks nice and smooth and you know the pads are good then i wouldnt worry.DB9VolanteDriver said:
I took mine off to check the balance; this was at 7k miles. They were easier to get off than some other discs I had the pleasure or removing. A 2x4 behind the disc and small taps at many angular positions did the trick for me. Don't know how having more miles would've affected ease of removal.
Not beaing able to remove it does not sound real to me. They are suposed to be removed every 3rd pad change to be weight anyway?A-DBS said:
I changed my pads and in the process I asked my dealer to weigh the discs so that i get some kind of indication about their life. Dealer absolutely refused to tuch the discs. Aparantly they are very hard to take off without being damaged. I pushed hard to have them removed, cleand and weight but they did not give in saying that if they would be damaged that would me on me and they would not take any responsibility for it. Anyone has experience on this?
I call bs on this one. On the service schedule I'm sure for v12v the disks are supposed to be removed, baked (to dry) and then weighed .I'm sure Bamford Mike can give some more information on this...
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