Buying a 25-30k early 4.3 V8V and buying & GMR supercharger

[urquattroGus]

Went to the Topcats Racing open today and was looking at two cars that have been converted and talking to the guys.

Dangerous man maths started to kick in on the way back from work.

I’ve never really considered the 4.3 “enough” but I do like the pure looks of the original and the fact is had a 6speed manual with good weight distribution.

Has anyone gone for a gmr upgrade? £15k apparently...

Something like a 60k mile V8V for 25-30k and then 15k on top, plus other maintenance parts. Apparently it must have a twin plate clutch upgrade.

A used Aston and a bolt on supercharger- what could possibly go wrong!!!?

Edited by urquattroGus on Saturday 20th October 16:35

[Jon39]

If you want (is it 600bhp?) for track use, then fine.

However, for the sum of money you have mentioned, 4.7 cars are available with original bodywork and manual gearboxes, at lower mileages.

I can assure you that you will find, 0 to 100mph to 0, in 15 seconds, 'reasonably sufficient' for road use in the UK.
My constant problem, is not being able to use full throttle for very long. With more power, that problem increases.

Edited by Jon39 on Saturday 20th October 17:08

[urquattroGus]

I see your point, but I like the idea of something mildly unhinged

[leerandle]

Get yourself a 4.3 or 4.7 and then a new full exhaust, de-cat/200 cell cats and an ECU remap.

Far better use of the money if you ask me.

Not only will you get a quicker non standard car, you won't spend a fortune and lose lots when you come to resell.

Supercharged Astons are still frowned upon generally, but there are obviously companies out there that provide the possibility.

If you're really interested, speak to the guys at Bamford Rose or David Appleby.

[BamfordMike]

urquattroGus said:

I see your point, but I like the idea of something mildly unhinged

As stated, 4.7 is a good starting base because everything is newer. If the budget stretches a bit further, the entry point of original V12V’s is bonkers low in relative comparison to what that money gets outside of the Aston world.

Unhinged you say? I see Katie Price’s Facebook page is currently showing single, but be careful, as with anything unhinged, dating her is likely to bite you in the butt in the long run!

[bogie]

Its not just the engine though, if you stick another 200bhp in it you will want to do the brakes and suspension etc. Probably another easy £5K + of improvements you will want..and maybe exhaust too if not included in the supercharger kit.

Then you have a 12 year old car that you have spent £20k on (to say £50K) with niche resale appeal and trade value of low £20k

Or spend £10k more and get an early V12V thats at the bottom of its depreciation curve. Run it for a year or two and when you get bored of the 500 odd bhp starting power you can spend a few quid on that for more

[urquattroGus]

I didn’t realise that early V12 van stages were as low as 65k, that has certainly turned my head. If I could afford one then I’d have one in a heartbeat.

Following on from the logic above then, all I need to do is wait for someone to advertise their supercharged V8 and snap it up for the bargain price of £20K..... Or not?

I don’t mind brake and suspension upgrades following on.

It seems that there is a stigma about the conversion?

I’m not completely convinced in spending thousands with Bamford Rose for an Extra 20bhp to be honest.

I’ve been there and done that with a full Larini system on a Maserati.

My main concern initially was that there is no charge cooler to cool the intake, just water Injection, but in fairness water injection is quite proven and I would imagine that it suits the packageing constraints of the car.

[BamfordMike]

urquattroGus said:

I don’t mind brake and suspension upgrades following on.

It seems that there is a stigma about the conversion?

I’m not completely convinced in spending thousands with Bamford Rose for an Extra 20bhp to be honest.

I’ve been there and done that with a full Larini system on a Maserati.

For someone who’s owned their 4.3L since new, or has sentimentality in a particular car, or doesn’t want to lose money in trade-up costs and another round of depreciation, or say at the opposite end of the scale, a AMR V8 and the owner wants the optimum performance, braking (CCM) and handling (electronic adaptive) to get the very best Vantage, we all get modification in those cases often means the numbers aren’t important, especially if year on year it’s a longer term plan of upgrading OEM stuff when it’s naturally worn out.
But without even owning the car from the outset and planning 30k on the purchase, £20k charger, £5k brakes, £5k dampers, £3k wishbone arms, tyres, geo, other consumables & inevitable repairs = V12V - easily. But why don’t you incur all of that spend and then come back to this forum and tell everyone how great the car is compared to the same price V12V, and then report come resale time and investment recoupment and surmise if it was all worth it.

Stigma?
I’ve not seen one video of a pressure charged car being put through it’s paces properly by someone that can drive half decently with a std car in the background as reference to properly assess the improvement.
But the real question is engine reliability. Forget any company, a guy, a private individual who’s day job isnt cars is modifying his own Vantage for fun (he’s on 6speed). He is without doubt, hands down the most advanced along the pressure charged development curve in terms of the charger, boost level, base engine and software. I don’t think he claims the dizzy height power figures the pro companies charge (read that less stress on the engine), yet what’s he doing right now? Building his own one off spec bulletproof engine because he’s had too many component failures from pressure charging! Why? because the compression ratio, valve overlap, sintered rods and a long list of other specs are all ‘wrong’ when it comes to pressure charging.
I can here you now... “but there’s many test miles on a mule car”, there might be, but the promo pictures of the engine (before photoshop), shows there was a tag left on the front of the engine by mistake. The tag shows ‘AMR Prodrive’, the development mule which has reportedly done thousands of arduous miles had a race engine (better spec internals) fitted, I’ve previously posted that picture on this forum.

The Masser in your history states a 3200. Larini offer cats, a centre section and ECU remap @ £3349, which yeah, is probably 20BHP, there is no manifold options stated for that masser by Larini. Most independents in the Aston world charge approx. 1500 quids for that / 20 BHP performance increase. Independents sell manifolds and cats for around 50 BHP for around 5k, so you “haven’t been there and done that” apples Vs apples. £5k on manifolds and cats transformes a 4.3L into 4.7L performance and that’s as far as the bulk of folk want to go on a 4.3L, so not only is your “spending thousands” comment not apples V apples, it’s also fundamentally not understanding what 99% of the Aston performance upgrade market actually wants.

[bogie]

urquattroGus said:

Following on from the logic above then, all I need to do is wait for someone to advertise their supercharged V8 and snap it up for the bargain price of £20K..... Or not?

It seems that there is a stigma about the conversion?

Ive never seen a supercharged car for sale ...I dont think they have done many to be honest. The trade in value of a 12 year old most early/leggy car is about £20k . If it was a private sale you would obviously get more. How much would you pay for a car already with the conversion ? Would you pay £5k more, £10k more ? this is what the market would decide. I think you would be lucky to get 50% of the mod cost back come resale. Who would want the risk of an older modified car with 600bhp and no engine warranty.

I wouldn't say there is a stigma as such to conversions, its just of very limited appeal.....maybe Aston owners are just too sensible/risk averse.

I had an engine conversion in a Lotus in 2004. It was worth having at the time, because it was near double the bhp of the factory car, for £10k and no quibble warranty on the engine included with the conversion. These days the factory has caught up, with 300-400bhp Lotus available (at a price) so the engine conversion market is limited with many opting for a used factory car already with the higher power output.

[urquattroGus]

The 3200 is twin turbo with cast iron log type manifolds, so there aren't really any tubular options, but the sports cats bolted directly onto the turbo flange.

I think to sum it up I would love a V12V, maybe I can dream and save for one.

That and the general hostility of people to the supercharging idea from others seems that it's a dead duck.

Anything short of that seems to dull for me and not quite special enough - but then I haven't even driven one so what can I say.

I'm looking for something that feels really special but with a hard edge to it and or old school feel.

The truth is I'm spoilt with daily driving the Guilia Quad, which is pretty special for a saloon.

I'm a little skeptical about 50bhp extra on the 4.3 from just a full exhaust system and remap, impressive if that is genuinely the case.

I'd imagine that it would still feel somewhat torque light despite the peak power increase.