DBX sheds some disguise
Discussion
RL17 said:
Not seen that one . Any pictures? Know they had a Rapide winning Le Mans (top class) when AM were still in the 1.5 litre class and a WO Bentley V12 pre-war. And there's 1960's Rapide in local club.
I'll see what I can find. They weren't successful that's for sure. 1954 they raced at Le Mans so probably elsewhere too. Eric Thompson drove, so maybe Jack Fairman as well. No, no good, I'll have to check.Way Off Topic: I knew a chap who drove a pre-war V12 Lagonda as his daily transport. This was in the nineties so the car was at least 60 years old. He was sleeping partner in a classic car restoration business. When it came time for his car to be fettled, they took the engine to pieces and it became obvious that it was the first time it had been apart since it was new. Whether it was a version of this engine that AM used in the 50s racing car is something else I must check. I'll be in the library. Talk quietly amongst yourselves.
Buster73 said:
james-witton said:
Maybe you could have those words embroidered on your AM jacket.
You like it really , I’ll wear it the next time you organise a NE run out ....
Sorry for the thread hijack. Will stop now.
Edited by james-witton on Thursday 21st November 21:24
Jon39 said:
Greetings George. Good to hear again from a knowledgeable engineer.
Yes, I had wondered whether the reality of hybrid cars, is more about impressing neighbours, rather than saving the planet.
Had forgotten about the employers car tax situation mentioned in the post above, but it appears that a significant proportion of hybrid car users never bother to plug in the supplied charging cable, so they are just driving a petrol powered car.
Do you still have your DB9 ?
I saw somewhere on the internet, that you have joined a different racing team.
They have improved suddenly. Would have had a first podium appearance for a long time, if the stewards had acted faster.
It is repeatedly said to be a collective team sport, but your arrival seems to have suddenly made a big difference. -
Well done.Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 21st November 18:29
I do think the only reason you’d have one is the BIK tax benefits, or the free congestion charge if you’re in London. Plus the fact unless the energy that charges the battery is created from renewables then it’s not really any more efficient than driving a small diesel/petrol car. I think mild hybrids (the non plug in type) make more sense, but they still generally add lots of weight. Not had the DB9 for a while. Got an M2 Competition for now, and just focusing on the bike racing! Would like to get an AM again at some point, probably a V12VSR when I stop wasting a fortune on bikes!
I have indeed! Thanks but I had no input on this years car. Hopefully there will be another step forward next year and some more silverware without the need for post race penalties promoting us there!
George29 said:
I have indeed! Thanks but I had no input on this years car. Hopefully there will be another step forward next year and some more silverware without the need for post race penalties promoting us there!
George, how on earth do you live in Lancashire and work in Woking? I know I'm very intolerant of commuting traffic but hitting the M25 at 5pm just once when I visited the MTC last week was enough to remind me that my 7-10 mile cycle commute is just about perfect.
The Ongoing AM / AML V12 Distraction.
Well, I've been wrong before. The engine in the DB Lagonda racing cars of 1954 and 1955 was not the rejuvenated pre-war Lagonda V12 engine - which was what I thought up until last night - but engines built at David Brown's request as he considered a luxury car to rival Bentley to follow on from the pre-war Lagonda saloons. The engine was two Lagonda/Aston Martin straight sixes in V form displacing four and a half litres. Six engines are thought to have been built. The cars were development projects and had chassis numbers beginning DP115. Three chassis were built for the 1954 season, DP115/1, 2 and 3 and two cars were built. The first car crashed at Le Mans and was later rebuilt using chassis DP115/3 and parts of DP166/1, the sole 1955 car which only raced once, at Le Mans. Two cars survive; DP115/2 (in its original form as far as I can see) and DP115/3 (as mentioned, constructed from DP115/1 and DP116). The engine had bearing failure problems. The solution was a tighter fit which meant the engine wouldn't function properly when cold and necessitated heating the oil and water before starting.
Long story short, there were two V12 engines that pre-dated the Ford derived V12. One was the successful pre-war Lagonda V12 which doesn't appear to have been used after Aston Martin bought Lagonda and the unsuccessful V12 used in a handful of uncompetitive racing cars in the 50s. This was not the long standing AM V12 heritage I was seeking.
This is DickyC for AM Trivial News handing you back to the studio.
Well, I've been wrong before. The engine in the DB Lagonda racing cars of 1954 and 1955 was not the rejuvenated pre-war Lagonda V12 engine - which was what I thought up until last night - but engines built at David Brown's request as he considered a luxury car to rival Bentley to follow on from the pre-war Lagonda saloons. The engine was two Lagonda/Aston Martin straight sixes in V form displacing four and a half litres. Six engines are thought to have been built. The cars were development projects and had chassis numbers beginning DP115. Three chassis were built for the 1954 season, DP115/1, 2 and 3 and two cars were built. The first car crashed at Le Mans and was later rebuilt using chassis DP115/3 and parts of DP166/1, the sole 1955 car which only raced once, at Le Mans. Two cars survive; DP115/2 (in its original form as far as I can see) and DP115/3 (as mentioned, constructed from DP115/1 and DP116). The engine had bearing failure problems. The solution was a tighter fit which meant the engine wouldn't function properly when cold and necessitated heating the oil and water before starting.
Long story short, there were two V12 engines that pre-dated the Ford derived V12. One was the successful pre-war Lagonda V12 which doesn't appear to have been used after Aston Martin bought Lagonda and the unsuccessful V12 used in a handful of uncompetitive racing cars in the 50s. This was not the long standing AM V12 heritage I was seeking.
This is DickyC for AM Trivial News handing you back to the studio.
V8V Pete said:
George29 said:
I have indeed! Thanks but I had no input on this years car. Hopefully there will be another step forward next year and some more silverware without the need for post race penalties promoting us there!
George, how on earth do you live in Lancashire and work in Woking? I know I'm very intolerant of commuting traffic but hitting the M25 at 5pm just once when I visited the MTC last week was enough to remind me that my 7-10 mile cycle commute is just about perfect.DickyC said:
The Ongoing AM / AML V12 Distraction.
Well, I've been wrong before. The engine in the DB Lagonda racing cars of 1954 and 1955 was not the rejuvenated pre-war Lagonda V12 engine - which was what I thought up until last night - but engines built at David Brown's request as he considered a luxury car to rival Bentley to follow on from the pre-war Lagonda saloons. The engine was two Lagonda/Aston Martin straight sixes in V form displacing four and a half litres. Six engines are thought to have been built. The cars were development projects and had chassis numbers beginning DP115. Three chassis were built for the 1954 season, DP115/1, 2 and 3 and two cars were built. The first car crashed at Le Mans and was later rebuilt using chassis DP115/3 and parts of DP166/1, the sole 1955 car which only raced once, at Le Mans. Two cars survive; DP115/2 (in its original form as far as I can see) and DP115/3 (as mentioned, constructed from DP115/1 and DP116). The engine had bearing failure problems. The solution was a tighter fit which meant the engine wouldn't function properly when cold and necessitated heating the oil and water before starting.
Long story short, there were two V12 engines that pre-dated the Ford derived V12. One was the successful pre-war Lagonda V12 which doesn't appear to have been used after Aston Martin bought Lagonda and the unsuccessful V12 used in a handful of uncompetitive racing cars in the 50s. This was not the long standing AM V12 heritage I was seeking.
This is DickyC for AM Trivial News handing you back to the studio.
Fascinating. Although my original point was a much less educated view that a lot of AM purists don’t like the V8 because it is a Merc unit whereas the V12 isn’t. Well, I've been wrong before. The engine in the DB Lagonda racing cars of 1954 and 1955 was not the rejuvenated pre-war Lagonda V12 engine - which was what I thought up until last night - but engines built at David Brown's request as he considered a luxury car to rival Bentley to follow on from the pre-war Lagonda saloons. The engine was two Lagonda/Aston Martin straight sixes in V form displacing four and a half litres. Six engines are thought to have been built. The cars were development projects and had chassis numbers beginning DP115. Three chassis were built for the 1954 season, DP115/1, 2 and 3 and two cars were built. The first car crashed at Le Mans and was later rebuilt using chassis DP115/3 and parts of DP166/1, the sole 1955 car which only raced once, at Le Mans. Two cars survive; DP115/2 (in its original form as far as I can see) and DP115/3 (as mentioned, constructed from DP115/1 and DP116). The engine had bearing failure problems. The solution was a tighter fit which meant the engine wouldn't function properly when cold and necessitated heating the oil and water before starting.
Long story short, there were two V12 engines that pre-dated the Ford derived V12. One was the successful pre-war Lagonda V12 which doesn't appear to have been used after Aston Martin bought Lagonda and the unsuccessful V12 used in a handful of uncompetitive racing cars in the 50s. This was not the long standing AM V12 heritage I was seeking.
This is DickyC for AM Trivial News handing you back to the studio.
bananarob said:
Jon39 said:
I heard a comment recently, saying a considerable majority of hybrid owners, never bother to use their car's plug-in feature.
Does that therefore mean, they are actually driving an ordinary petrol car, except for the braking creating a small amount of electricity ?
Using my fag packet calculator, it costs about £35 per month in electricity and current consumption for the car is an average of nearly 83 mpg.
Now, I may be out of touch, but that's not too bad for a practical SUV, is it?
V8V Pete said:
George, how on earth do you live in Lancashire and work in Woking? I know I'm very intolerant of commuting traffic but hitting the M25 at 5pm just once when I visited the MTC last week was enough to remind me that my 7-10 mile cycle commute is just about perfect.
I’m not in Lancashire any more! Further south but still have a 90 mile commute. I stop down here mid week too, and am in work for 6am most days so miss all the trafficNeil1300r said:
He's seen the light and moved from the frozen wastelands of the North to Sunny Surrey where the streets are paved with Gold. He may be moaning about the price of beer though
Not that far south thankfully. Although anything south of Manchester is bad. And yes a pint is a rip off here! ArgieBargy said:
It's unfortunate that so many are wrongly using a PHEV for it's tax break and not running them as they should. My daily driving fits a PHEV perfectly, so I'm very much a convert for Monday-Friday. I've been running a Cayenne E-Hybrid (both generations) as my daily for just under 3 years now and love it. I'm all electric for the daily drive to / from work and any local stuff, then I've still got the petrol motor for those longer runs.
Using my fag packet calculator, it costs about £35 per month in electricity and current consumption for the car is an average of nearly 83 mpg.
Now, I may be out of touch, but that's not too bad for a practical SUV, is it?
That is quite impressive! Using my fag packet calculator, it costs about £35 per month in electricity and current consumption for the car is an average of nearly 83 mpg.
Now, I may be out of touch, but that's not too bad for a practical SUV, is it?
The only thing I would say though is from a government/legislation point of view, hybrids are supposed to be about cutting back on emissions. What’s the average CO2/KW, and how many KW have been used in the electric only use? To make something cheaper to run I can definitely see the benefits
Also another thought. How much longer will it be cheaper? With the massive taxation on fuel, if everyone swapped to a hybrid and say doubled their MPG. That’s a lot of money the government is losing through fuel duty. Do they then start taxing electric used for cars?
Edited by George29 on Friday 22 November 11:27
George29 said:
That is quite impressive!
The only thing I would say though is from a government/legislation point of view, hybrids are supposed to be about cutting back on emissions. What’s the average CO2/KW, and how many KW have been used in the electric only use? To make something cheaper to run I can definitely see the benefits
Also another thought. How much longer will it be cheaper? With the massive taxation on fuel, if everyone swapped to a hybrid and say doubled their MPG. That’s a lot of money the government is losing through fuel duty. Do they then start taxing electric used for cars?
"What’s the average CO2/KW, and how many KW have been used in the electric only use?"The only thing I would say though is from a government/legislation point of view, hybrids are supposed to be about cutting back on emissions. What’s the average CO2/KW, and how many KW have been used in the electric only use? To make something cheaper to run I can definitely see the benefits
Also another thought. How much longer will it be cheaper? With the massive taxation on fuel, if everyone swapped to a hybrid and say doubled their MPG. That’s a lot of money the government is losing through fuel duty. Do they then start taxing electric used for cars?
Edited by George29 on Friday 22 November 11:27
Sorry George, but my fag packet calculator just exploded! However, since March 2016, my charger's meter has clocked up 7,653.09 kWh. Is that any use?
"That’s a lot of money the government is losing through fuel duty. Do they then start taxing electric used for cars?"
Without a doubt, the Chancellor is going to come back and hit all electric vehicles when there are enough of them on the road, so I'm enjoying the benfits whilst I can. However, there is also the benefit that it is just nicer to electrically waft along at 22mph in a West Midlands traffic jam rather than put up with auto stop/start.
DickyC said:
The Ongoing AM / AML V12 Distraction.
Well, I've been wrong before. The engine in the DB Lagonda racing cars of 1954 and 1955 was not the rejuvenated pre-war Lagonda V12 engine - which was what I thought up until last night - but engines built at David Brown's request as he considered a luxury car to rival Bentley to follow on from the pre-war Lagonda saloons. The engine was two Lagonda/Aston Martin straight sixes in V form displacing four and a half litres. Six engines are thought to have been built. The cars were development projects and had chassis numbers beginning DP115. Three chassis were built for the 1954 season, DP115/1, 2 and 3 and two cars were built. The first car crashed at Le Mans and was later rebuilt using chassis DP115/3 and parts of DP166/1, the sole 1955 car which only raced once, at Le Mans. Two cars survive; DP115/2 (in its original form as far as I can see) and DP115/3 (as mentioned, constructed from DP115/1 and DP116). The engine had bearing failure problems. The solution was a tighter fit which meant the engine wouldn't function properly when cold and necessitated heating the oil and water before starting.
Long story short, there were two V12 engines that pre-dated the Ford derived V12. One was the successful pre-war Lagonda V12 which doesn't appear to have been used after Aston Martin bought Lagonda and the unsuccessful V12 used in a handful of uncompetitive racing cars in the 50s. This was not the long standing AM V12 heritage I was seeking.
This is DickyC for AM Trivial News handing you back to the studio.
Thanks DickyCWell, I've been wrong before. The engine in the DB Lagonda racing cars of 1954 and 1955 was not the rejuvenated pre-war Lagonda V12 engine - which was what I thought up until last night - but engines built at David Brown's request as he considered a luxury car to rival Bentley to follow on from the pre-war Lagonda saloons. The engine was two Lagonda/Aston Martin straight sixes in V form displacing four and a half litres. Six engines are thought to have been built. The cars were development projects and had chassis numbers beginning DP115. Three chassis were built for the 1954 season, DP115/1, 2 and 3 and two cars were built. The first car crashed at Le Mans and was later rebuilt using chassis DP115/3 and parts of DP166/1, the sole 1955 car which only raced once, at Le Mans. Two cars survive; DP115/2 (in its original form as far as I can see) and DP115/3 (as mentioned, constructed from DP115/1 and DP116). The engine had bearing failure problems. The solution was a tighter fit which meant the engine wouldn't function properly when cold and necessitated heating the oil and water before starting.
Long story short, there were two V12 engines that pre-dated the Ford derived V12. One was the successful pre-war Lagonda V12 which doesn't appear to have been used after Aston Martin bought Lagonda and the unsuccessful V12 used in a handful of uncompetitive racing cars in the 50s. This was not the long standing AM V12 heritage I was seeking.
This is DickyC for AM Trivial News handing you back to the studio.
Turns out I'd forgotten about the V12 bit as I think one of these cars had 3 different grills during 1954. They were big engined versions of the AM as Le Mans in bid for overall title as ACO didn't cap engine size at 3 litres until a couple of years before the 59 win.
Looks like one car also the star of Checkpoint 1956 movie (producers thank David Brown organisation and others connected with racing programme
Seems to be a lots of detail and pictures on the 1954 Le Mans and crash at the Esses in the primotipo link (a few in middle and loads more at bottom as scroll down:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...
https://primotipo.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/imag...
A good review from Carfection here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Vjrt0Pupo
I like it.
I can't afford it, but I like it.
I like it.
I can't afford it, but I like it.
Road & Track seem to have an interview with Andy Palmer where he confirms the V12 engine could fit in DBX and that there’s likely to be an AMR version at some point (green with yellow stripes anyone?)
I’m not sure about the v12. I mean I can see the positives. But equally for me an SUV is going to cover some miles so the v6 hybrid might make more sense).
I’m not sure about the v12. I mean I can see the positives. But equally for me an SUV is going to cover some miles so the v6 hybrid might make more sense).
RobDown said:
Road & Track seem to have an interview with Andy Palmer where he confirms the V12 engine could fit in DBX and that there’s likely to be an AMR version at some point (green with yellow stripes anyone?)
I’m not sure about the v12. I mean I can see the positives. But equally for me an SUV is going to cover some miles so the v6 hybrid might make more sense).
It makes as much sense as a 5.0 SC in a Range Rover, but don't forget for a some people (and a disproportionate amount of the target audience) they just have to have the 'best' / most expensive version of whatever they buy. Even more so in the markets where this car will (hopefully) flourish...I’m not sure about the v12. I mean I can see the positives. But equally for me an SUV is going to cover some miles so the v6 hybrid might make more sense).
RobDown said:
Road & Track seem to have an interview with Andy Palmer where he confirms the V12 engine could fit in DBX and that there’s likely to be an AMR version at some point (green with yellow stripes anyone?)
I’m not sure about the v12. I mean I can see the positives. But equally for me an SUV is going to cover some miles so the v6 hybrid might make more sense).
The AM chap at Bicester Heritage Sunday Scramble 'suggested' to me that a V12 would follow.I’m not sure about the v12. I mean I can see the positives. But equally for me an SUV is going to cover some miles so the v6 hybrid might make more sense).
Chopdogs said:
A good review from Carfection here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Vjrt0Pupo
I like it.
I can't afford it, but I like it.
Another one here from Carwow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO9jwBH1Ob0&fe...I like it.
I can't afford it, but I like it.
It looks a lot better than I thought it would from the camo shots. And better than its competition too.
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