New vantage chat

[Westlondondriver]

jonnyfox said:

Hi. New to Aston Martin I picked up a 6 month old 2k miles Hammerhead Silver Vantage (which is more a medium grey) last Wednesday from Cheltenham, it was their demonstrator. I'm very happy with it. I think it's a beautiful car, as did 10 or so different people (at least) I met over this last weekend.

I drove to Anglesey from Sutton Coldfield on the A5 and back on the M6 using one tank of petrol. I didn't track it, I save that for my R300 but I did have a spirited drive there Saturday. Took it easy on the way home Sunday evening. Fuel light came on as I pulled into my local garage. Close to a 6 hour trip overall, no issue with seats either, all good.

Yep tyres jump, my wife's Merc did the same, especially in the cold. Merc replaced them, I don't find it an issue. Hyper sensitive parking sensors, I just turn them off.

Sports plus pack, tech pack, comfort pack, black pack, premium audio, dark chrome jewellery and black leather interior. I've missed a few others bits but not much. Hope you like it too





Collection day

Looks fantastic - a great buy. I think the new Vantage definitely looks best with the DB11 wheels like this one.

[KevinBird]

Jon39 said:

This puzzles me, because someone, or someone's business must own these cars.
Unlikely that it is a philanthropic charity, so presumably it is a financing company.

Are they knowingly going to lose money, by charging the users £25k, then face depreciation of a higher amount ?

There must be more to this. Can anyone explain?

As I understand it the finance co are able to write down the value of the car, recover the VAT and clearly won't be buying it at list. They have to charge VAT when they sell it but on a lower value. With the difference in paid and recovered VAT, say 50% right down on the value over two years and the £25K received from the hirer, they'll make a return and AML will shift a load of stock

This is a straight hire purchase agreement with and optional final payment dressed up as a PCP

[Greg_D]

Jon39 said:

DB9VolanteDriver said:

cayman-black said:

25k for two years? If you paid outright i think you will lose far more, so seems a good deal..

If this is indeed a "25K and walk away after two years" deal, then anyone buying one would be an idiot. Of course these cars will lose more than 25K in 2 years. What Aston doesn't lose at least 1/3 after two years?

This puzzles me, because someone, or someone's business must own these cars.
Unlikely that it is a philanthropic charity, so presumably it is a financing company.

Are they knowingly going to lose money, by charging the users £25k, then face depreciation of a higher amount ?

There must be more to this. Can anyone explain?

Sure. It’s pretty straightforward, the dealer pays nowhere near list for the car so can finance it accordingly.

List prices are a fallacy nowadays. The manufacturers business model isn’t predicated on list at all.

If the dealer actually pays, say, 100k for a stock car then they can do that sort of finance deal.

For most cars nowadays, paying list or anywhere close in cash is absolute madness...

I never used to finance cars, but nowadays I tend to as cash is not king any more

[ds666]

Greg_D said:

Jon39 said:

DB9VolanteDriver said:

cayman-black said:

25k for two years? If you paid outright i think you will lose far more, so seems a good deal..

If this is indeed a "25K and walk away after two years" deal, then anyone buying one would be an idiot. Of course these cars will lose more than 25K in 2 years. What Aston doesn't lose at least 1/3 after two years?

This puzzles me, because someone, or someone's business must own these cars.
Unlikely that it is a philanthropic charity, so presumably it is a financing company.

Are they knowingly going to lose money, by charging the users £25k, then face depreciation of a higher amount ?

There must be more to this. Can anyone explain?

Sure. It’s pretty straightforward, the dealer pays nowhere near list for the car so can finance it accordingly.

List prices are a fallacy nowadays. The manufacturers business model isn’t predicated on list at all.

If the dealer actually pays, say, £100k for a stock car then they can do that sort of finance deal.

For most cars nowadays, paying list or anywhere close in cash is absolute madness...

I never used to finance cars, but nowadays I tend to as cash is not king any more

That's quite a risk for the dealer - adverts on here show lowest price Vantage at about £92k, nearly new . In 2 years time that might be worth , say £70k . Dealer then has £25k income on £100k cost with a car now worth , say , £60k ?? (I'm assuming that this is a lease deal ??) .
Has anyone seen this deal in writing ?

[Greg_D]

ds666 said:

Greg_D said:

Jon39 said:

DB9VolanteDriver said:

cayman-black said:

25k for two years? If you paid outright i think you will lose far more, so seems a good deal..

If this is indeed a "25K and walk away after two years" deal, then anyone buying one would be an idiot. Of course these cars will lose more than 25K in 2 years. What Aston doesn't lose at least 1/3 after two years?

This puzzles me, because someone, or someone's business must own these cars.
Unlikely that it is a philanthropic charity, so presumably it is a financing company.

Are they knowingly going to lose money, by charging the users £25k, then face depreciation of a higher amount ?

There must be more to this. Can anyone explain?

Sure. It’s pretty straightforward, the dealer pays nowhere near list for the car so can finance it accordingly.

List prices are a fallacy nowadays. The manufacturers business model isn’t predicated on list at all.

If the dealer actually pays, say, £100k for a stock car then they can do that sort of finance deal.

For most cars nowadays, paying list or anywhere close in cash is absolute madness...

I never used to finance cars, but nowadays I tend to as cash is not king any more

That's quite a risk for the dealer - adverts on here show lowest price Vantage at about £92k, nearly new . In 2 years time that might be worth , say £70k . Dealer then has £25k income on £100k cost with a car now worth , say , £60k ?? (I'm assuming that this is a lease deal ??) .
Has anyone seen this deal in writing ?

i think there's a bit of 1+1=11 going on here. let me do a run through using numbers

completely made up example:

list price £130k
dealer actually buys it for £100k
finances/leases it to customer @ £25k cost over 2 years with a guaranteed future value of £80k - once the forms are signed, the finance company owns the asset, AM dealer have sold a car and made money...
if the car ends up worth 90k then the customer sells it (usually PXs it with AM) and has £10k 'deposit' for the next car
if the car ends up worth 75k then the customer walks away and the finance company takes a £5k bath.

thats it!

the problem comes when the dealer holds onto depreciating 'nearly new' stock such that it's retail price is lower than what they actually paid for it - then it is the dealer that is taking a bath.

and once in a while an old boy turns up and pays near to list for the car outright and the dealer absolutely kills it....

[superlightr]

Greg_D said:

i think there's a bit of 1+1=11 going on here. let me do a run through using numbers

completely made up example:

list price £130k
dealer actually buys it for £100k
finances/leases it to customer @ £25k cost over 2 years with a guaranteed future value of £80k - once the forms are signed, the finance company owns the asset, AM dealer have sold a car and made money...
if the car ends up worth 90k then the customer sells it (usually PXs it with AM) and has £10k 'deposit' for the next car
if the car ends up worth 75k then the customer walks away and the finance company takes a £5k bath.

thats it!

the problem comes when the dealer holds onto depreciating 'nearly new' stock such that it's retail price is lower than what they actually paid for it - then it is the dealer that is taking a bath.

and once in a while an old boy turns up and pays near to list for the car outright and the dealer absolutely kills it....

think it will be more like
List £120k
Dealer buys the car for £85k

I suspect the initial dealer cost price will be the anticipated price they would offer on a used in 2 years time.

Be keen to know the real split if any AM dealers want to post?

Edited by superlightr on Tuesday 3rd December 12:10

[Mr.Tremlini]

jonnyfox said:

Hi. New to Aston Martin I picked up a 6 month old 2k miles Hammerhead Silver Vantage (which is more a medium grey) last Wednesday from Cheltenham, it was their demonstrator. I'm very happy with it. I think it's a beautiful car, as did 10 or so different people (at least) I met over this last weekend.

I drove to Anglesey from Sutton Coldfield on the A5 and back on the M6 using one tank of petrol. I didn't track it, I save that for my R300 but I did have a spirited drive there Saturday. Took it easy on the way home Sunday evening. Fuel light came on as I pulled into my local garage. Close to a 6 hour trip overall, no issue with seats either, all good.

Yep tyres jump, my wife's Merc did the same, especially in the cold. Merc replaced them, I don't find it an issue. Hyper sensitive parking sensors, I just turn them off.

Sports plus pack, tech pack, comfort pack, black pack, premium audio, dark chrome jewellery and black leather interior. I've missed a few others bits but not much. Hope you like it too

Very nice and tastefully specced, congratulations, long may the happiness continue!

[8Speed]

jonnyfox said:

Hi. New to Aston Martin I picked up a 6 month old 2k miles Hammerhead Silver Vantage (which is more a medium grey) last Wednesday from Cheltenham, it was their demonstrator. I'm very happy with it. I think it's a beautiful car, as did 10 or so different people (at least) I met over this last weekend.

I drove to Anglesey from Sutton Coldfield on the A5 and back on the M6 using one tank of petrol. I didn't track it, I save that for my R300 but I did have a spirited drive there Saturday. Took it easy on the way home Sunday evening. Fuel light came on as I pulled into my local garage. Close to a 6 hour trip overall, no issue with seats either, all good.

Yep tyres jump, my wife's Merc did the same, especially in the cold. Merc replaced them, I don't find it an issue. Hyper sensitive parking sensors, I just turn them off.

Sports plus pack, tech pack, comfort pack, black pack, premium audio, dark chrome jewellery and black leather interior. I've missed a few others bits but not much. Hope you like it too





Collection day

I don't normally like grey cars but that is very nice.
Congratulations!

[ds666]

superlightr said:

Greg_D said:

i think there's a bit of 1+1=11 going on here. let me do a run through using numbers

completely made up example:

list price £130k
dealer actually buys it for £100k
finances/leases it to customer @ £25k cost over 2 years with a guaranteed future value of £80k - once the forms are signed, the finance company owns the asset, AM dealer have sold a car and made money...
if the car ends up worth 90k then the customer sells it (usually PXs it with AM) and has £10k 'deposit' for the next car
if the car ends up worth 75k then the customer walks away and the finance company takes a £5k bath.

thats it!

the problem comes when the dealer holds onto depreciating 'nearly new' stock such that it's retail price is lower than what they actually paid for it - then it is the dealer that is taking a bath.

and once in a while an old boy turns up and pays near to list for the car outright and the dealer absolutely kills it....

think it will be more like
List £120k
Dealer buys the car for £85k

I suspect the initial dealer cost price will be the anticipated price they would offer on a used in 2 years time.

Be keen to know the real split if any AM dealers want to post?

Edited by superlightr on Tuesday 3rd December 12:10

From what I've seen ,future values are always conservative .

Anyway - do these deals actually exist ??? If so seem like a real bargain

[nickv8]

Greg_D said:

i think there's a bit of 1+1=11 going on here. let me do a run through using numbers

completely made up example:

list price £130k
dealer actually buys it for £100k
finances/leases it to customer @ £25k cost over 2 years with a guaranteed future value of £80k - once the forms are signed, the finance company owns the asset, AM dealer have sold a car and made money...
if the car ends up worth 90k then the customer sells it (usually PXs it with AM) and has £10k 'deposit' for the next car
if the car ends up worth 75k then the customer walks away and the finance company takes a £5k bath.

thats it!

the problem comes when the dealer holds onto depreciating 'nearly new' stock such that it's retail price is lower than what they actually paid for it - then it is the dealer that is taking a bath.

and once in a while an old boy turns up and pays near to list for the car outright and the dealer absolutely kills it....

Greg - I appreciate you trying to break it down. I’ve been (so far... touch wood!) successfully in business for 10+ years and to me the numbers are too close.

Naturally, it depends on margins and prices we’re not privy to, but I can’t shake off a bad feeling about all this. It smells very much of US housing market circa 2007. I’m not for a moment accusing anyone of doing anything wrong or illegal, and all car makers are at it, not just AM, but it appears to be a house of cards to me.

OK - snapping out of the somber mood, all the potential risk appears to be with AM, the dealer and/or the finance company. Amazingly, the customer appears to have an absolute bargain (relatively!) on their hands with no obvious risk.

With servicing and warranty built in, and all costs over a 24 month period set in stone at the start (let’s assume interest rates don’t go up... seems unlikely anyway), a great new sports car for £25k (+insurance, petrol and tyres) for 2 years is amazing! That it’s an Aston seems too good to be true.

I wonder what the figures on an in-stock DBSS are

[KevinBird]

The interest rate is fixed so risk

DBSS deals also available on a pro rata basis

[oilit]

jonnyfox said:

Hi. New to Aston Martin I picked up a 6 month old 2k miles Hammerhead Silver Vantage (which is more a medium grey) last Wednesday from Cheltenham, it was their demonstrator. I'm very happy with it. I think it's a beautiful car, as did 10 or so different people (at least) I met over this last weekend.

I drove to Anglesey from Sutton Coldfield on the A5 and back on the M6 using one tank of petrol. I didn't track it, I save that for my R300 but I did have a spirited drive there Saturday. Took it easy on the way home Sunday evening. Fuel light came on as I pulled into my local garage. Close to a 6 hour trip overall, no issue with seats either, all good.

Yep tyres jump, my wife's Merc did the same, especially in the cold. Merc replaced them, I don't find it an issue. Hyper sensitive parking sensors, I just turn them off.

Sports plus pack, tech pack, comfort pack, black pack, premium audio, dark chrome jewellery and black leather interior. I've missed a few others bits but not much. Hope you like it too





Collection day

congratulations - looks great - enjoy it to the max!!

Is that the delightful Rachel I see in the background? Apologies if it isn't 0 but she is incredibly helpful and a good long time employee up there.

[jonnyfox]

Thank you, I really appreciate all your kind words. Good positive stuff.

I dealt with an excellent salesman called Ben. I didn't get her name but she helped with the unveiling.

I tried a few similar marks for the money but this was by far the best deal. There is a lot of Pork for similar money that also isn't moving. I rang around and had a good look at a 992 in Sutton Coldfield. The salesman clearly thought I owed him a favour and needs to properly work on his nonchalant posture, but anyways it just felt underwhelming in comparison and too much like the 997 I'd picked up years earlier. But Bigger!

Time for a change and I'm loving it. What an engine, fair play to AM for recognising what a great engine the AMG bi-turbo is and acting on it. Infotainment is ok, no particular drama to operate either and less fussy than my wife's GLC. How are you guys finding the Merc infotainment?

[oilit]

jonnyfox said:

........ The salesman clearly thought I owed him a favour and needs to properly work on his nonchalant posture,

Isn't it funny - I have always encountered that at the Porsche dealers, never at the AM ones though...

I heard the Mercedes infotainment is tuned by AML and it is best heard through tunnels with the windows down and the pedal to the floor....

After that - who gives a damn about radios and sat navs :-)

[SagMan]

I think I can help shed some light on recent Vantage deals, we have just gone with one !

Had choice of 5 vehicles , list ranging £134k to £151k all same finance cost. We took £151k car as spec was so near what we wanted.

Deal is 1x £1100 plus 23 x £1100 for 2 years 20,000 miles.

Cost to dealer was only £106k, finance was 5.9% fixed. Our PCP is fixed with option to buy at end of contract or just hand back . Plus includes first year RFL snd 5 years servicing .

In my eyes amazing deal for £150k car, paid similar for £75k BMW not that long ago.

I hope this helps

[jonnyfox]

If I'm honest I didn't quite get that deal, close but I'm happy with my bang for buck.

[RobDown]

KevinBird said:

The interest rate is fixed so risk

DBSS deals also available on a pro rata basis

To put numbers to that I believe the DBS deal is 2.5k down and 2.5k per month

I think from memory the CFO said on the Q3 results call that AML were taking a bit of a margin hit to offer better leasing deals.

Have to say if I didn’t already have 2 Astons I would be sorely tempted by this. Ok it’s a stock car, so maybe not your ideal spec. But £25k (or slightly more depending on options) to drive the car for 2 years with no risks seems like a great offer.

And I guess for the dealers it allows them to clear some space ahead of DBX coming in

[SagMan]

jonnyfox said:

If I'm honest I didn't quite get that deal, close but I'm happy with my bang for buck.

Sorry if not clear. Basically 24 payments of £1100 inc vat, no deposit, for 24 months use and 20,000 miles.

Dealer bought go for £106k when list was £151k
That’s what made the offer I guess

[anonymous-user]

So is this deal available at all dealers or just some? This might tempt me from my 911!

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 3rd December 21:41

[jonnyfox]

Wasn't all dealers when I tried, I had some hard ball thrown in to that equation locally.

20k miles never raised its head over two years either. Good effort though.