Which fuel do you buy for your Aston Martin ?
Discussion
I started this topic wondering whether there might be a discussion about ethanol.
The consensus though appears to be that octane is probably more important.
Petrol now contains 5% or 10% ethanol, but original petrol can still be obtained.
https://youtu.be/wOxxPYLhBhM
Well quite - chemistry and physics don't lie but are harnessed for use by good engineering. This (should!) ensure that fuel that is likely to be used in a car long term will not damage it. It might run better with this or that but if using 'everyday' fuel would damage the engine or components within its expected lifespan then that would be a poorly engineered machine, and not the inevitability of reaction. I have not heard of V12's failing due to using 95RON fuel??? I have a couple of V8's with knock sensors anyway...
It is true that high RON fuels will burn more smoothly and pink less, so if you want to give your engine an easier time then use it. But I would not subscribe that the engine using a fuel it was designed for will last less time. I have high performance (motorcycle) engines that have no knock sensor and I happily use 95RON in them.
I must say that the RON of fuels in some countries would cause me concern, it can be as low at 91 which for an engine designed and tuned for 95 could cause damage.
The original question for ethanol has been a big thing in motorcycle circles, really with older stuff where plastics and rubber are damaged by the stuff. I referred to plastic absorbing it and the fuel tanks of Aprilias swelling - to the degree that my tank taken off for servicing the engine would need to be levered back into place with a block of wood to fit back on the bike. But taking the tank off, draining it and letting it shrink back over a period of a couple of weeks and it was back to normal.
A bit like when we wisely turn our backs on leaded fuel, modern engines and fuel systems are designed to withstand ethanol although I do try and get 5% rather than 10% where I can (I filled with V-Power today and note it is 99RON and 5% ethanol. That'll do me.
It is true that high RON fuels will burn more smoothly and pink less, so if you want to give your engine an easier time then use it. But I would not subscribe that the engine using a fuel it was designed for will last less time. I have high performance (motorcycle) engines that have no knock sensor and I happily use 95RON in them.
I must say that the RON of fuels in some countries would cause me concern, it can be as low at 91 which for an engine designed and tuned for 95 could cause damage.
The original question for ethanol has been a big thing in motorcycle circles, really with older stuff where plastics and rubber are damaged by the stuff. I referred to plastic absorbing it and the fuel tanks of Aprilias swelling - to the degree that my tank taken off for servicing the engine would need to be levered back into place with a block of wood to fit back on the bike. But taking the tank off, draining it and letting it shrink back over a period of a couple of weeks and it was back to normal.
A bit like when we wisely turn our backs on leaded fuel, modern engines and fuel systems are designed to withstand ethanol although I do try and get 5% rather than 10% where I can (I filled with V-Power today and note it is 99RON and 5% ethanol. That'll do me.
My understanding is that in the UK, regular grade petrol must now contain 5% ethanol.
Most higher grade petrol does contain 5% ethanol, except ESSO Synergy Supreme+ which in some/most/all areas of the UK, does not contain any ethanol.
10 % ethanol I believe is now in some petrol on mainland Europe.
Pumps are labelled E5 or E10.
It seems that the label displayed on ESSO Synergy Supreme+ pumps, can be ignored.
Edited by Jon39 on Sunday 26th January 18:37
If you want to know if you are putting more Ethanol than the 0-5% limit then look for the E10 marking on the pump. Of course it wont be easy to see. This shows its 10%. And do not get too worried about Supermarket fuel, depending on where you are it will be the same fuel that is going into the more supposed better brands. Morrisons do not have a refinery next to Fawley for instance.
Tesco though tend to have better quality fuel from the point of view of additives and their higher Ron product is good. Dont fall for the Shell V-Power hype.
I know this as i have a good friend who is involved in one of the supermarket fuel departments.
Personally i put bog standard petrol in my V8V and on 40k+ its runs fine.
Tesco though tend to have better quality fuel from the point of view of additives and their higher Ron product is good. Dont fall for the Shell V-Power hype.
I know this as i have a good friend who is involved in one of the supermarket fuel departments.
Personally i put bog standard petrol in my V8V and on 40k+ its runs fine.
Constant source of frustration for me that a lot of Super near us (Sainsburys, Texaco, Esso) is RON97. I'll only put Super in our V12VS or Evora 400, and I don't like buying RON97 out of principle, so always on the lookout for Shell, BP or Tesco which are RON99.
Biggest insult was being low on fuel on the motorway and paying 156.9p/litre for RON97.
Biggest insult was being low on fuel on the motorway and paying 156.9p/litre for RON97.
Neil1300r said:
V8 has anti knock, so is better with higher octane fuel
V12 didn't have anti knock, so high octane fuel is a waste of money
This is completely and utterly illogical. Higher octane fuel resists knock more than lower octane fuel.V12 didn't have anti knock, so high octane fuel is a waste of money
If your car doesn't have a knock sensor then it can't retard the ignition when knock occurs in an effort to prevent it. Ergo having no knock sensor makes it more important to run higher octane fuel.
Ken Figenus said:
All we can compare is Octane. I had a really good look once and found nothing - if it said that Vmax had 1% more graphite than Tesco Extra Value petrol I'd buy it. But you can never find out!
https://support.shell.com/hc/en-gb/articles/115005935369-What-is-Ethanol-Shell said:
The RFTO target is typically met through the use of bio-derived ethanol in petrol and Fatty Acid Methyl Ester (FAME) in diesel, which are blended into Shell’s UK fuel products in compliance with current UK fuels specifications (up to 5% ethanol in petrol and up to 7% FAME in diesel fuel). This means that, in the UK, Shell regular unleaded and Shell V-Power unleaded are likely to contain some ethanol, but it will not be present at more than 5% (in accordance with current UK specification requirements).
https://www.esso.co.uk/fuels-faqsEsso said:
Esso super unleaded petrol (Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland). We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of ethanol in petrol to use Synergy Supreme+ – providing they do not fill up in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area or Scotland.
Edited by faa77 on Monday 27th January 02:58
Olivera said:
This is completely and utterly illogical. Higher octane fuel resists knock more than lower octane fuel.
If your car doesn't have a knock sensor then it can't retard the ignition when knock occurs in an effort to prevent it. Ergo having no knock sensor makes it more important to run higher octane fuel.
This is how it was explained to me - but I'm willing to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable. Lower octane fuels are more prone to knocking, so the earlier engines, without a knock sensor, were tuned with timing designed to prevent knock in the worse case scenario on 95 octane fuel. This means they shouldn't knock except under extreme circumstances, but it also means that they cannot adjust their timing to benefit from higher octane fuel. The later engines (with the sensor) have more aggressive timing, which can burn higher octane fuel more efficiently and thus achieve higher power, but will back off if you put 95 in there.If your car doesn't have a knock sensor then it can't retard the ignition when knock occurs in an effort to prevent it. Ergo having no knock sensor makes it more important to run higher octane fuel.
As I understand it with the earlier V12s unless you are driving very, very aggressively (i.e. track driving) knocking shouldn't be a concern because of their set up, so anything above 95 won't really be necessary, and since they can't adjust their timing you also won't get more out of the fuel.
Edited by murphyaj on Monday 27th January 09:10
JB65 said:
V8 Roadster said:
For those who live in germany, Shell V Power is the only fuel without Ethanol.
Regards
Torsten
That’s Incorrect, Aral Ultimate 102 has no ethanol and on top if it offers 102 octane vs Shell only 100.Regards
Torsten
Did take a while if 18 AMs filled up though
murphyaj said:
This is how it was explained to me - but I'm willing to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable. Lower octane fuels are more prone to knocking, so the earlier engines, without a knock sensor, were tuned with timing designed to prevent knock in the worse case scenario on 95 octane fuel. This means they shouldn't knock except under extreme circumstances, but it also means that they cannot adjust their timing to benefit from higher octane fuel. The later engines (with the sensor) have more aggressive timing, which can burn higher octane fuel more efficiently and thus achieve higher power, but will back off if you put 95 in there.
As I understand it with the earlier V12s unless you are driving very, very aggressively (i.e. track driving) knocking shouldn't be a concern because of their set up, so anything above 95 won't really be necessary, and since they can't adjust their timing you also won't get more out of the fuel.
Yup, that's a good description. As I understand it with the earlier V12s unless you are driving very, very aggressively (i.e. track driving) knocking shouldn't be a concern because of their set up, so anything above 95 won't really be necessary, and since they can't adjust their timing you also won't get more out of the fuel.
Edited by murphyaj on Monday 27th January 09:10
There is a little pinking (pre-ignition/knocking) in certain (transient) circumstances and this can be heard with a stethoscope and the engine components are designed to withstand this degree of stress. Higher octane fuels in a car without a sensor sounds smoother as you have a buffer before any will happen but as you say this engine can't take the benefit of an earlier spark with higher octane. The sensor basically keeping the ignition timing just off knock-conditions by listening to the block whatever the fuel - it can't magically tell it just senses the tell-tale frequency of the knock then the ignition timing backs off.
https://www.azosensors.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=...
Bamford Rose on which fuel to use
https://youtu.be/wOxxPYLhBhM
Apparently Esso premium the only fuel in UK market without ethanol in, will give it a try next time, been using Shell Vpower as thats the local garage I pass every week on my way out.
https://youtu.be/wOxxPYLhBhM
Apparently Esso premium the only fuel in UK market without ethanol in, will give it a try next time, been using Shell Vpower as thats the local garage I pass every week on my way out.
Edited by bogie on Tuesday 28th January 14:58
Edited by bogie on Tuesday 28th January 14:59
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