Why are AM's core products not selling?

[Viahuerto]

cypriot said:

lots of interesting comments on here. Here are my thoughts for a parallel universe:

Aston is in a unique position the luxury/sports car market that I believe it is not exploiting. Firstly, Aston needs to realise it only needs to sell 4,000/5,000 cars a year, like ferrari/lambo/mclaren. It should STOP trying to compete against porsche, as its volumes are in a totally different league. This means its pricing should and can remain as it is now, and due to the low volumes, Aston would not have to adhere to such strict emissions regulations like the rest. Which means it can stop spending vast sums of money on hybrid tech that will probably not be the end solution to motoring in 20 years time anyway. This leads on to its products... Unlike ferrari/lambo/mclaren, Aston does not have this "must be the fastest car on the road" problem which all the aforementioned brands must adhere too. This has led to (mostly) turbo powered cars, hybrid cars, dual clutch, 4wd in some cases, electric steering, 4 wheel steering, ugly cars due to downforce etc. In contrast, Aston can focus on creating fantastic "road" cars, that are not the fastest, but have lovely NA engines, offered with/without a manual 'box, no stupid aero elements, and beautiful interiors/exteriors. They should drive beautifully, which considering Aston has Matt Becker in employment, should not be a problem. All the models should be highly customisable (as they are now) and feel truly special - no parts bins from other manufacturers (please make nice indicator stalks for once!!). If mclaren can do it, then aston can do it as well. Ditch silly infotainment, return to buttons (they are proven to be safer than touchscreens anyhow) for stuff like A/c and radio, and just provide a way to display Apple Carplay/Android Auto. This solves all the infotainment needs anyone ever needs for these kind of cars (namely navigation and music), and it never goes out of date. They should stop trying to push volumes. Stick to a figure, and thats it. If the demand is greater than supply, thats great! it means your residuals are higher, and you are in the enviable position of knowing you will sell your full year's production every year with no discounts. Isnt that every manufacturer's dream? This constant push to drive up volumes for the benefit of the shareholder's meeting every year always leads down a difficult path, and into products/engine you do not want.

aston is a fantastic brand, has amazing heritage. I know they will survive whatever happens due to the power of the brand, but they should look are their strengths, and play to them.

More buttons, less screens is better. A smaller screen lower in the dash that has basic navi and apple play/ android would be great but not a plastic slab that sits in the middle of the dash like now. I had an E39 M5 that had the perfect dashboard layout. It was sober and all business. The other car I owned that had a great dash layout was a 2010 Audi S8. The screen folded into the dash. Everyone seems to forget the horrible navi unit in the previous generation Vantage. It vastly cheapened the feeling of the interior. Agree also about the switchgear. My spouse owns a MB and the stuff in my Vantage is identical it all works but isn't special.

[Shrimpvende]

Some slightly interesting anecdotes contrary to the general opinion of this thread;

I've been out in my new vantage a lot more recently now that lockdown has eased and the weather is better. I've still not managed to drive it much since I bought it in December, but the public reaction to it has been really surprising, and all massively positive. It's a bit of a garage queen so always looking very clean/detailed, but honestly I can't fill it up with petrol without someone commenting on it or giving me the thumbs up. I often catch people staring or they want to talk about it when I get out of it, only last night I was at a friend's house for a bbq and 3 separate neighbours of his came over independently to gawp at it and said how utterly stunning it was.

When they said they'd never seen one before I told them it's because of low sales due to slightly controversial looks and a weird mouth (a view anyone who's read my previous posts will know I also share) but they were flabbergasted at this and insisted it was beautiful. These were 2 blokes and a lady, all around middle age, so not the perceived new target audience being described in this thread.

By far, far and away the #1 comment I get on the car is how beautiful the colour is (including last night). It's Elwood blue, far from a more traditional grey/black. I'd say 90% of the comments come from 30+ year old's, and I've never heard any negativity from anyone about it, or even managed to get anyone to agree with me that the grille is too big! All anecdotal of course, but it seems that the general public think it's a great looking car. It's made me think twice about changing to the new front grille at least.

Edit - any excuse for a pic eh?

Edited by Shrimpvende on Monday 13th July 11:27

[JohnPM]

There still seems to be a lot of 'new' old stock to shift, Grange alone are listing nearly 40 unregistered cars for sale, most of them 17MY or 18MY.

[8Speed]

Shrimpvende said:

Some slightly interesting anecdotes contrary to the general opinion of this thread;

I've been out in my new vantage a lot more recently now that lockdown has eased and the weather is better. I've still not managed to drive it much since I bought it in December, but the public reaction to it has been really surprising, and all massively positive. It's a bit of a garage queen so always looking very clean/detailed, but honestly I can't fill it up with petrol without someone commenting on it or giving me the thumbs up. I often catch people staring or they want to talk about it when I get out of it, only last night I was at a friend's house for a bbq and 3 separate neighbours of his came over independently to gawp at it and said how utterly stunning it was.

When they said they'd never seen one before I told them it's because of low sales due to slightly controversial looks and a weird mouth (a view anyone who's read my previous posts will know I also share) but they were flabbergasted at this and insisted it was beautiful. These were 2 blokes and a lady, all around middle age, so not the perceived new target audience being described in this thread.

By far, far and away the #1 comment I get on the car is how beautiful the colour is (including last night). It's Elwood blue, far from a more traditional grey/black. I'd say 90% of the comments come from 30+ year old's, and I've never heard any negativity from anyone about it, or even managed to get anyone to agree with me that the grille is too big! All anecdotal of course, but it seems that the general public think it's a great looking car. It's made me think twice about changing to the new front grille at least.

Edit - any excuse for a pic eh?

Edited by Shrimpvende on Monday 13th July 11:27

Good to hear this from a current owner.
I reckon anything that tones down the prominent front & rear spoilers is a plus & I think the body colour diffuser on your car looks good. There's one I've seen advertised that is has all exterior parts in the same colour and to my eyes that's the best look.

[Bobajobbob]

Shrimpvende said:

Some slightly interesting anecdotes contrary to the general opinion of this thread

Edit - any excuse for a pic eh?

Edited by Shrimpvende on Monday 13th July 11:27

"Baby doll" blue does look stunning and from that angle so does the new Vantage. Very glad to hear that new owners are loving the car. I really really want to be a new owner too so hope that a few revisions down the road I'll be lusting after one again.

If they would just put the front end from that new V12 Speedster on the Vantage body then we'd be talking.

[anonymous-user]

Bobajobbob said:

"Baby doll" blue does look stunning and from that angle so does the new Vantage. Very glad to hear that new owners are loving the car. I really really want to be a new owner too so hope that a few revisions down the road I'll be lusting after one again.

If they would just put the front end from that new V12 Speedster on the Vantage body then we'd be talking.

Excluding the outer air intakes and slightly different bonnet and vents (louvered carbon ones are probably 50% smaller on the Vantage), it's pretty much already there:


Vaned grille (on the Vantage Roadster but available on the Coupe of course).


V12 Speedster.

When the Vaned grille was announced, that was disliked also - and the headlights became the next problem (as I alluded before, they're not a simple restyling job, they would require a chunk more overhang added to the nose as the light cluster sits quite close to the wheel arch liner (that's straight from Marek, who of course is receiving a character assassination along with the rest of the design team at the moment).

[RichB]

Shrimpvende said:

It's great to hear that you get such positive reactions, I also like the colour. Mind you it's interesting that you chose to post a picture of the rear of your car because, when asked for their favourite shot, most people would picture from some angle showing the front.

[Bobajobbob]

It may be a trick of the light or the additional vents but the grill looks in better proportion in the Speedster, it doesn't appear so wide, but the main difference for me is the removal of the panel gap right across the nose and around the lights. This has always been my biggest issue with the Vantage as it doesn't follow the lines of the car in any way, it just cuts straight across the nose and into the lights totally breaking up and detracting from the aggressive shark nose form. As it cuts across both flat and curved metal it also never quite sits flat so your eye is drawn to that imperfection and it compromises the form of the lights because the impact of their shape is lost with the panel gap hitting the inside curve.

In the DB10 and the new V12 Speedster you can see how the design was originally intended whereas when I look at the Vantage all I see is compromise and cost saving as that bonnet gap can only be there because in the design process they couldn't justify the cost of the clam shell bonnet that went on the DB11. With the new roadster they've taken a different direction making the bonnet opening an obvious and aggressive visible feature but for me at least it works as it leaves the more important nose area unmolested.

(I admit it, I am a bit obsessed with how much I hate that bonnet panel gap. I also hate the front of the old Vanquish for similar reasons though that car is marginally better).

Edited by Bobajobbob on Monday 13th July 20:06

[anonymous-user]

The picture of the vantage roadster above looks like the bonnet was a different spray job to the nose.?

[Mr.Tremlini]

Bobajobbob said:

It may be a trick of the light or the additional vents but the grill looks in better proportion in the Speedster, it doesn't appear so wide, but the main difference for me is the removal of the panel gap right across the nose and around the lights. This has always been my biggest issue with the Vantage as it doesn't follow the lines of the car in any way, it just cuts straight across the nose and into the lights totally breaking up and detracting from the aggressive shark nose form. As it cuts across both flat and curved metal it also never quite sits flat so your eye is drawn to that imperfection and it compromises the form of the lights because the impact of their shape is lost with the panel gap hitting the inside curve.

In the DB10 and the new V12 Speedster you can see how the design was originally intended whereas when I look at the Vantage all I see is compromise and cost saving as that bonnet gap can only be there because in the design process they couldn't justify the cost of the clam shell bonnet that went on the DB11. With the new roadster they've taken a different direction making the bonnet opening an obvious and aggressive visible feature but for me at least it works as it leaves the more important nose area unmolested.

(I admit it, I am a bit obsessed with how much I hate that bonnet panel gap. I also hate the front of the old Vanquish for similar reasons though that car is marginally better).

The only time I think about the panel gap on the bonnet is when someone mentions the panel gap on the bonnet. If I look at the car or pictures of one, it does not bother me one bit, I do not see it as a problem at all, but there we go, one mans trash is another mans treasure and all that!

[RichB]

soofsayer said:

The picture of the vantage roadster above looks like the bonnet was a different spray job to the nose.?

[JohnG1]

Shrimpvende said:

Some slightly interesting anecdotes contrary to the general opinion of this thread;

I've been out in my new vantage a lot more recently now that lockdown has eased and the weather is better. I've still not managed to drive it much since I bought it in December, but the public reaction to it has been really surprising, and all massively positive. It's a bit of a garage queen so always looking very clean/detailed, but honestly I can't fill it up with petrol without someone commenting on it or giving me the thumbs up. I often catch people staring or they want to talk about it when I get out of it, only last night I was at a friend's house for a bbq and 3 separate neighbours of his came over independently to gawp at it and said how utterly stunning it was.

When they said they'd never seen one before I told them it's because of low sales due to slightly controversial looks and a weird mouth (a view anyone who's read my previous posts will know I also share) but they were flabbergasted at this and insisted it was beautiful. These were 2 blokes and a lady, all around middle age, so not the perceived new target audience being described in this thread.

By far, far and away the #1 comment I get on the car is how beautiful the colour is (including last night). It's Elwood blue, far from a more traditional grey/black. I'd say 90% of the comments come from 30+ year old's, and I've never heard any negativity from anyone about it, or even managed to get anyone to agree with me that the grille is too big! All anecdotal of course, but it seems that the general public think it's a great looking car. It's made me think twice about changing to the new front grille at least.

Edit - any excuse for a pic eh?

Edited by Shrimpvende on Monday 13th July 11:27

One question - the blue part below the number plate that forms the undertray and the two vanes below each pair of exhaust pipes - can they be specified in carbon fibre or black?

I think that would look great!

[oilit]

Bobajobbob said:

It may be a trick of the light or the additional vents but the grill looks in better proportion in the Speedster, it doesn't appear so wide, but the main difference for me is the removal of the panel gap right across the nose and around the lights. This has always been my biggest issue with the Vantage as it doesn't follow the lines of the car in any way, it just cuts straight across the nose and into the lights totally breaking up and detracting from the aggressive shark nose form. As it cuts across both flat and curved metal it also never quite sits flat so your eye is drawn to that imperfection and it compromises the form of the lights because the impact of their shape is lost with the panel gap hitting the inside curve.

In the DB10 and the new V12 Speedster you can see how the design was originally intended whereas when I look at the Vantage all I see is compromise and cost saving as that bonnet gap can only be there because in the design process they couldn't justify the cost of the clam shell bonnet that went on the DB11. With the new roadster they've taken a different direction making the bonnet opening an obvious and aggressive visible feature but for me at least it works as it leaves the more important nose area unmolested.

(I admit it, I am a bit obsessed with how much I hate that bonnet panel gap. I also hate the front of the old Vanquish for similar reasons though that car is marginally better).

Edited by Bobajobbob on Monday 13th July 20:06

I dont think it is as wide - count the vertical slats and see where the centre one sits on each grille - suggesting the speedster is slightly narrower - I would say the edge of the grille is different in relation to where it aligns with the bulbs in the lights also

i also note that the bnnet line which continues towards the front of the car seems to extend further on the rhs than the left on the speedster... I wonder if they were undecided which route to go !!

Why oh why is this guy still heading up the designs when he has obviously failed on such an epic level?

I recall a video shared on here where he was at AM Bristol (I think) it was of an evening 'explaining the deign of the Vantage' - looking back on that - when did a successful design ever need explaining by the designer ?

Edited by oilit on Tuesday 14th July 05:57

[RMDB9]

8Speed said:

Good to hear this from a current owner.
I reckon anything that tones down the prominent front & rear spoilers is a plus & I think the body colour diffuser on your car looks good. There's one I've seen advertised that is has all exterior parts in the same colour and to my eyes that's the best look.

I bed to differ. I think the current Vantage and its design is aimed at new-to-the-brand buyers who othermise might have considered a Lotus or pre-owned Ferrari. Therefore, the extrovert design and candy colours suit the car very well.

[Viahuerto]

JohnG1 said:

One question - the blue part below the number plate that forms the undertray and the two vanes below each pair of exhaust pipes - can they be specified in carbon fibre or black?

I think that would look great!

I've had the exact same experience with my Vantage. People everywhere give me the thumbs up & many people come up to me in parking lots to talk about the car.

[Octavarium]

Viahuerto said:

JohnG1 said:

One question - the blue part below the number plate that forms the undertray and the two vanes below each pair of exhaust pipes - can they be specified in carbon fibre or black?

I think that would look great!

I've had the exact same experience with my Vantage. People everywhere give me the thumbs up & many people come up to me in parking lots to talk about the car.

How very odd. Are you saying that people don't come up to you and tell you that the bonnet shut line is all wrong, or the headlights are too small, or that it looks like an MX5 ?

Seriously though, I have many positive comments when out and about from people with my DB11. The only negative I've had from someone was that they didn't like the stuck-on iPad on the dashboard. I agreed with him, but still - how very dare he !!

[Shrimpvende]

JohnG1 said:

One question - the blue part below the number plate that forms the undertray and the two vanes below each pair of exhaust pipes - can they be specified in carbon fibre or black?

I think that would look great!

You can indeed, the standard car has the diffuser/vanes in the same colour as the lower skirts (dark grey or gloss black plastic, or carbon fibre). To have them in body colour like mine is actually an optional extra!

[hornbaek]

Edited by Shrimpvende on Monday 13th July 11:27

[/quote]

Love this colour - car looks great.

[cayman-black]

Shrimpvende said:

Some slightly interesting anecdotes contrary to the general opinion of this thread;

I've been out in my new vantage a lot more recently now that lockdown has eased and the weather is better. I've still not managed to drive it much since I bought it in December, but the public reaction to it has been really surprising, and all massively positive. It's a bit of a garage queen so always looking very clean/detailed, but honestly I can't fill it up with petrol without someone commenting on it or giving me the thumbs up. I often catch people staring or they want to talk about it when I get out of it, only last night I was at a friend's house for a bbq and 3 separate neighbours of his came over independently to gawp at it and said how utterly stunning it was.

When they said they'd never seen one before I told them it's because of low sales due to slightly controversial looks and a weird mouth (a view anyone who's read my previous posts will know I also share) but they were flabbergasted at this and insisted it was beautiful. These were 2 blokes and a lady, all around middle age, so not the perceived new target audience being described in this thread.

By far, far and away the #1 comment I get on the car is how beautiful the colour is (including last night). It's Elwood blue, far from a more traditional grey/black. I'd say 90% of the comments come from 30+ year old's, and I've never heard any negativity from anyone about it, or even managed to get anyone to agree with me that the grille is too big! All anecdotal of course, but it seems that the general public think it's a great looking car. It's made me think twice about changing to the new front grille at least.

Edit - any excuse for a pic eh?

Edited by Shrimpvende on Monday 13th July 11:27

Shrimp that's just beautiful, what a difference a colour makes, well done.

[markiii]

we need a pic from the front