Reichman Vs The Rest - Pictures

[DB4DM]

I have a 1962 Rapide which was one of DB's taxis so am familiar with AML efforts at 4 doors, and agree the Taraf is spectacular. However, it has a huge airbag construction above the rear doors which makes getting in or out somewhat undignified if tall in stature, and there is not much legroom in the rear if the driver is also tall

[Jon39]

Noogly said:

What would a clean sheet Reichman design look like? Is it the mid engined cars?

We have been told that Adrian Newey designed the undercar shapes of the Valkyrie, but as a top aerodynamicist, surely he must have also designed the upper surface body shape as well.

The Valhalla is so similar to the Valkyrie, that I could probably not tell them apart.
The Vanquish concept which has been displayed, has a body shape which is clearly derived from the Valkyrie, but to my eyes does benefit from a slightly more attractive and smoothed design, although presumably not with the Valkyrie class of aerodynamic downforce.

If my assumptions are correct, then the designs originate from Newey and not Reichman.

[Agent57]

Shapes that do well in a wind tunnel are not always the best looking.

[anonymous-user]

Jon39 said:

We have been told that Adrian Newey designed the undercar shapes of the Valkyrie, but as a top aerodynamicist, surely he must have also designed the upper surface body shape as well.

The Valhalla is so similar to the Valkyrie, that I could probably not tell them apart.
The Vanquish concept which has been displayed, has a body shape which is clearly derived from the Valkyrie, but to my eyes does benefit from a slightly more attractive and smoothed design, although presumably not with the Valkyrie class of aerodynamic downforce.

If my assumptions are correct, then the designs originate from Newey and not Reichman.

The plan was for Marek to do a design tour for Valkyrie in a similar way to Vantage. During the Vantage design tour, he did touch upon the Valkyrie though; it's a project quite dear to him and one he's very proud of I think. Aston's external design team came at it from one side, and Red Bull's aero team from another. When they overlayed the Aston silhouette of what they wanted the design language to be on the upper surfaces, it correlated with Red Bull's approach in an uncanny way. They weren't the same, but the Aston design team's concept carried through without major changes for performance reasons.

The benefit for Valkyrie, Valhalla and Vanqiush Vision external design language, is they rely heavily on undercar aero in order to produce downforce. The end result being you can be a bit more stylistic (within reason) on top side surfaces. That's not to say you can do whatever you like, but when the underbody aero is doing the bulk of the work, you can be a bit more 'form over function' with the visible upper bodywork.

Valhalla is a more restrained version of Valkyrie ethos (less envisaged as a lap record holder, more of an all round hypercar) and Vanquish Vision is the 'sensible' descendant, aimed at the Ferrari F8 / 720S segment. Aston's keen on the tamer mid-engine cars not being downforce monsters that are all about wind tunnel numbers and not attractive. At a time where Ferrari and McLaren are going with what the wind tunnel tells them a good car looks like, wouldn't it be nice for a attractive looking supercar to be available where some care's been taken about the form. Of course none of the 3 Mid-engine V-cars are anything like any Aston Martin that's gone before, so they put noses out of joint just by existing at all, but as a new chapter of the story, it's one of the more exciting developments IMO.

When I saw the Valhalla model a few months ago, I was immediately smitten - it's of course not a finished car, but if it's anything like that when complete, they'll have done a cracking job. I wish I had the money for one. I'm pinning my hopes on being able to get a Vanquish if and when I'm able.





A reminder of how aggressive the underbody aero of the Valhalla is...

[DBSSV20]

Any design can be, and in most cases most certainly is, subjective ! Cars, buildings, houses, suits the list goes on and on.

Opinions are always objective, because of what we personally believe, especially when it comes to Aston Martin.

My personal opinion is , whoever designed the DBS-S/SV is a genius because ( again) in my personal opinion it is the most striking/ beautiful/ handsome/sic/etc etc( use whichever adjective your age and upbringing is appropriate) of any car in the last 40 years.
If this persons initials are M R then that’s my two penneth-worth!

[CB07]

I personally think a Vantage which was in essence a mini DBS-S would sell exceptionally well. Of course this would bear strong resemblance to the DB11 and they would be accused of being derivative again.

I’m sure though that wouldn’t actually be a problem. If Vantage was a mini DBS-S I would be working as hard as possible to get into one!

[Ken Figenus]

Vulcan. Who designed this stunning car? The big motorsport inspired low protruding mouth just sits on it so well and works a treat.

I was at the new Vantage talk and Reichman kept talking of the 'team' and never once said he designed it - maybe they are a committee job? Not sure how it all works - especially when you have a team of eager young things wanting to make their mark?

[anonymous-user]

Ken Figenus said:

Vulcan. Who designed this stunning car? The big motorsport inspired low protruding mouth just sits on it so well and works a treat.

I was at the new Vantage talk and Reichman kept talking of the 'team' and never once said he designed it - maybe they are a committee job? Not sure how it all works - especially when you have a team of eager young things wanting to make their mark?

I don't know the exact organogram or team structure, but within Marek's team, you have Miles Nurnberger (director of design), and at foot soldier level - Sam Holgate who's penned multiple cars over the last few years. It's not a massive team, and some have more public presence than others, but Reichman carries the can, and (as witnessed on this forum) often gets the blame for everything that's disliked. He has an overview, but the design studio allows ideas from each individual to be expressed.

[8Tech]

I think what has happened, is that the designs are now being aimed at the "New Money" generation who are probably 2 decades younger than the traditional "successful" buyer who doesn't wear his baseball cap backwards, rap or sell YouTube time. For this audience, you really need the "look at me" appearances rather than the subdued beauty and class of previous models.
These include the huge Chinese market of the got rich quick brigade, most certainly a target market for AM.
Unfortunately, these buyers will get rid as soon as the next trendy supercar comes along to keep up with their peers.
The hypercars have a similar audience and will just end up in collections, or as hopeful investments.

[nite_narc]

Coming to the design team's defence a little there are a few cars they are deserving a good dose of credit.

- Vanquish & Vanquish S (despite being 'evolutions' they're carefully and considerately executed)
- Vulcan
- One-77
- Rapide
- Rapide AMR (deserves its own line as a future classic)
- Vanquish Zagato - all 3 (obviously a collaboration but...wow)
- DBX

So while none of the second-century generation float my boat (including the submarines, helicopters and marine vessels) there are a few gems within the portfolio. There are also some horrors; Cygnet, Lagonda SUV (first showing), Taraf to name a few.

But even though Marek is in the crosshairs (he designed the Chrysler Crossfire too I believe) ultimately the CEO signs off the development and production of designs. Marke's team will design dozens of variations on a new product before it goes to clay modelling and then final sign-off. The blame for an ugly duck doesn't fall exclusively on the design team.

In the car world it seems you're more remembered for your failures than successes.

[ninepoint2]

The One-77 is just a stunning looking machine

[oilit]

nite_narc said:

Coming to the design team's defence a little there are a few cars they are deserving a good dose of credit.

- Vanquish & Vanquish S (despite being 'evolutions' they're carefully and considerately executed)
- Vulcan
- One-77
- Rapide
- Rapide AMR (deserves its own line as a future classic)
- Vanquish Zagato - all 3 (obviously a collaboration but...wow)
- DBX

So while none of the second-century generation float my boat (including the submarines, helicopters and marine vessels) there are a few gems within the portfolio. There are also some horrors; Cygnet, Lagonda SUV (first showing), Taraf to name a few.

But even though Marek is in the crosshairs (he designed the Chrysler Crossfire too I believe) ultimately the CEO signs off the development and production of designs. Marke's team will design dozens of variations on a new product before it goes to clay modelling and then final sign-off. The blame for an ugly duck doesn't fall exclusively on the design team.

In the car world it seems you're more remembered for your failures than successes.

You make a very good point.

IMHO the vulcan stands out as the exception - which indeed may be why my Vantage front end love isn't what it should be. I would also add the Cygnet - but I know I stand alone in that regard


- Vanquish & Vanquish S (despite being 'evolutions' they're carefully and considerately executed) Yes
- Vulcan Nope
- One-77 Yes
- Rapide Yes
- Rapide AMR (deserves its own line as a future classic) Yes
- Vanquish Zagato - all 3 (obviously a collaboration but...wow) Yes
- DBX Yes

Edited by oilit on Thursday 16th July 05:40

[magarnett]

I give him 6 months max when new CEO arrives and he will be out.

We need fresh thinking.

[AstonV]

magarnett said:

I give him 6 months max when new CEO arrives and he will be out.

We need fresh thinking.

I hope you are correct. The new design direction for the Valkyrie, Valhalla and Vanqiush Vision are epic fails IMO.

[dbs2000]

AstonV said:

I hope you are correct. The new design direction for the Valkyrie, Valhalla and Vanqiush Vision are epic fails IMO.

That's a cracking looking car imo but I probably wouldn't want it, even if I could afford it. My biggest fear being the tub is not CF. Why would someone pay more for that than a McLaren?