Aston Martin Enthusiasts - Miscellaneous
Discussion
RichB said:
Lance is 23 and in his 6th season in F1, so no longer a rookie. Personally, I can't see it working out for Alonso, he'll probably retire at the end of next season.
6th season but still young at 23 and also known for his somewhat impetuous driving. They write that Alonso is in for a multi-year contract so would assume until the end of 2024 at least. He is still very hungry judging from his performances with Alpine.
Since Fernando Alonso began his F1 career in 2001 (up to 2021), he has outperformed his team mate every season (draw in 2004 against Jarno Trulli).
This year the qualifying figures are Fernando Alonso 7 - 4 Estaban Ocon.
Race results though favour Estaban Ocon, mainly I think, because Fernando Alonso has had more bad luck with mechanical failures.
The data indicates that Fernando Alonso is still in top form.
Presume he must anticipate a performance improvement with the AM F1 car, because his present team hold 4th position in the Constructors Championship (AM F1 is second to last).
I hope AML (road cars business) will not be paying his salary.
williamp said:
...for a fading ex wdc to go just before retirement
Maybe, but they can bring a wealth of experience to help develop the car. And if you can't afford a Verstappen, then you either have a pro on the way down, or a rookie on the way up (who if any good will get stolen by a richer team). It was notable yesterday how the race was split into the top three teams scrapping for the podium, and 'everybody else' trotting along behind. Not sure how you can get up the pack.Simpo Two said:
williamp said:
...for a fading ex wdc to go just before retirement
Maybe, but they can bring a wealth of experience to help develop the car. And if you can't afford a Verstappen, then you either have a pro on the way down, or a rookie on the way up (who if any good will get stolen by a richer team). It was notable yesterday how the race was split into the top three teams scrapping for the podium, and 'everybody else' trotting along behind. Not sure how you can get up the pack.I would not call Fernando Alonso fading yet.
7 to 4 qualifying results, against his young teammate this season.
..............................
Yes, your point about 'everybody else', is starkly shown by the big gap in Constructors Championship points.
In 3rd place ..... Mercedes ...........= 304 points.
In 4th place ...... Alpine Renault .....= 99 points.
Defo seems like a similar quality driver with experience as Vettel. We can probably assume he has seen there future plans and likes them but he is a little cornered by his, in particular past, abrasive and selfish character.
I still hope for great things with AM F1 but it is a massive money pit. If AM were up there it would be terrific.
I don't know what car they should copy next but Ferrari would be good and just plan your strategy to........ Well actually just have a strategy
I still hope for great things with AM F1 but it is a massive money pit. If AM were up there it would be terrific.
I don't know what car they should copy next but Ferrari would be good and just plan your strategy to........ Well actually just have a strategy
leman600 said:
Defo seems like a similar quality driver with experience as Vettel. We can probably assume he has seen there future plans and likes them but he is a little cornered by his, in particular past, abrasive and selfish character.
Alonso is more of a fighter than Vettel, who really seemed to have lost interest.leman600 said:
I still hope for great things with AM F1 but it is a massive money pit. If AM were up there it would be terrific.
The problem IMHO is that, even if AM was able to spend enough to be competitive, it would kill them. They wouldn't sell enough extra cars on the back of it to cover the gap. It's just not a sport that AM can really compete in, sadly. And their F1 team is only badge marketing.If I was buying a car based purely on F1 prowess, then it would have to be Mercedes or Ferrari... I wonder if Red Bull will launch a road car...?
Redbull may well be Porsche in the not too distant future.
Not sure how it works financially regarding money's etc but I can't imagine AM cars are directly putting anything in except if they ever made a profit.
Money is king (which is a shame) so I think there will always be a 2 or 3 tier racing.
The sad thing is if you level the playing field too much then the big boys won't see an advantage and would likely spit there dummies out.
It's all getting a bit legal and stroppy right now and even elements of the fans are letting the sport down.
I still love it though.
Not sure how it works financially regarding money's etc but I can't imagine AM cars are directly putting anything in except if they ever made a profit.
Money is king (which is a shame) so I think there will always be a 2 or 3 tier racing.
The sad thing is if you level the playing field too much then the big boys won't see an advantage and would likely spit there dummies out.
It's all getting a bit legal and stroppy right now and even elements of the fans are letting the sport down.
I still love it though.
Simpo Two said:
The problem IMHO is that, even if AM was able to spend enough to be competitive, it would kill them. They wouldn't sell enough extra cars on the back of it to cover the gap. It's just not a sport that AM can really compete in, sadly. And their F1 team is only badge marketing.
If I was buying a car based purely on F1 prowess, then it would have to be Mercedes or Ferrari... I wonder if Red Bull will launch a road car...?
If I was buying a car based purely on F1 prowess, then it would have to be Mercedes or Ferrari... I wonder if Red Bull will launch a road car...?
You have slightly confused me, 'They wouldn't sell enough extra cars on the back of it to cover the gap.'
The road cars business and F1 cars, being completely separate businesses.
The interesting aspect is that with far less money, the predecessor team (Force India) was widely recognised as achieving much better results, than would be expected for their budget size. Therefore that must have been the team effort of all the employees. Some key people have since been eased out, ironically the main man to Alpine Renault, who are now 4th in the Championship.
Aston Martin pays £21 million annually (for 10 years), to LS's private F1 team. For that money, Mr S. very kindly allows the AM name to be used on his cars. After that deal was announced, sponsorship money 'fell from the sky', possibly far more than LS has personally invested in AML. Rumoured to involve hundreds of £millions.
If you meet LS, be very careful not to mention Minardi.
'I wonder if Red Bull will launch a road car...? '
We both know the ideal project leader, Les Edgar.
Not completely experienced yet in mastering car production, but with a few gulps of Red Bull, and the ever helpful book, 'How to Build Cars for Dummies', he could try. Problem being, Red Bull would not stand for slipped timescale targets, which with his latest production date for the Griffith now at 5 years behind target, perhaps a pep talk from Christian Horner might be the solution. -
Edited by Jon39 on Monday 1st August 14:30
Jon39 said:
Since Fernando Alonso began his F1 career in 2001 (up to 2021), he has outperformed his team mate every season (draw in 2004 against Jarno Trulli).
Simpo Two said:
But the road car business is sending money to the F1 business, no?
Yes, maybe I misunderstood the comment in your post.
'The problem IMHO is that, even if AM was able to spend enough to be competitive, it would kill them. They wouldn't sell enough extra cars on the back of it to cover the gap.'
The (sponsorship) agreement is for the annual contracted sum, don't think any additional money involved 'to be competitive'.
I think possibly the annual payment might be about double the amount being paid to Red Bull previously.
The many new sponsors of LS's F1 team (now including the largest listed company in the world), presumably were attracted by the opportunity to be associated with the Aston Martin brand. Therefore I suppose LS needs to keep AML in business, otherwise the sponsors would lose that connection.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
Jon39 said:
Since Fernando Alonso began his F1 career in 2001 (up to 2021), he has outperformed his team mate every season (draw in 2004 against Jarno Trulli).
Thank you Steve. You have an excellent memory.
I was simply going by the data on this webpage.
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/p3ooeh/...
Considering Fernando Alonso had his 41st birthday at the weekend, he has had some good results this season.
Still seems to perform very well, against his 25 year old team mate.
Does Juan Manuel Fangio still hold the age record? Five World Championships (with four different teams), the last of which when he was age 46. The different teams aspect seems impressive, because occasionally we have seen the making of a champion, who happens to be driving the outstanding car of the season, with a team mate obeying orders.
Jon39 said:
The many new sponsors of LS's F1 team (now including the largest listed company in the world), presumably were attracted by the opportunity to be associated with the Aston Martin brand. Therefore I suppose LS needs to keep AML in business, otherwise the sponsors would lose that connection.
Which brings us back to the point that LS should be paying AM, not the other way round...The biggest sponsors, or 'partners' as they seem to be called, appear to be Cognizant and Aramco: https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/partners. If they are the largest listed companies in the world they could simply buy the team...
Simpo Two said:
Which brings us back to the point that LS should be paying AM, not the other way round...
The biggest sponsors, or 'partners' as they seem to be called, appear to be Cognizant and Aramco: https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/partners. If they are the largest listed companies in the world they could simply buy the team...
The biggest sponsors, or 'partners' as they seem to be called, appear to be Cognizant and Aramco: https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/partners. If they are the largest listed companies in the world they could simply buy the team...
Yes, Aramco is the big one.
2022 first quarter Net Income = $40 billion.
98% owned by the government. IPO in 2019, the company is now valued at about $2.5 trillion.
Expect there is probably enough to buy Aston Martin, amongst the loose change in their petty cash tin. -
Jon39 said:
Yes, Aramco is the big one.
2022 first quarter Net Income = $40 billion.
98% owned by the government. IPO in 2019, the company is now valued at about $2.5 trillion.
Expect there is probably enough to buy Aston Martin, amongst the loose change in their petty cash tin. -
One wonders how much of that $2.5T is thanks to having their logo on AM-branded F1 cars... At that level it must be like me casually putting a fiver in the Poppy Fund tin as I leave the supermarket!2022 first quarter Net Income = $40 billion.
98% owned by the government. IPO in 2019, the company is now valued at about $2.5 trillion.
Expect there is probably enough to buy Aston Martin, amongst the loose change in their petty cash tin. -
kevin_cambs_uk said:
Well the Grand Prix is over, as a new owner I want them to do well, I don’t follow sport but feel I can support them, but it is a little disappointing, but the surely it can only get better!
Remain confident Kevin.
When the 2021 season AM F1 racing car was unveiled, Mr Stroll said, "Aston Martin has its sights set on winning the Formula One world championship within the next five years".
We are now in year 2. The leading constructor team has 545 points and Aston Martin 25 (9th place out of 10, nils points today), but perhaps they are just holding back a little, to confuse the opposition, before being all conquering in year 5.
Joking aside, the cars at the front are fast and the cars at the back are almost as fast. Only a second or so difference in lap times. Not like the old days, when lapping occurred far more.
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