Thoughts on supercharging v8v?
Discussion
I've not seen this discussed in the forum before so didn't even know it was a thing until this week. Booking in my next service, the indy talked about planning to put one on his (planned) v8 vantage. By coincidence I then saw one with a supercharger kit advertised on PH just now, so looked it up. I'm not planning on doing it, just wondered what the forum experts think of the idea?
https://www.evo.co.uk/aston-martin/v12-vantage/708...
https://www.evo.co.uk/aston-martin/v12-vantage/708...
geresey said:
I've not seen this discussed in the forum before so didn't even know it was a thing until this week. Booking in my next service, the indy talked about planning to put one on his (planned) v8 vantage. By coincidence I then saw one with a supercharger kit advertised on PH just now, so looked it up. I'm not planning on doing it, just wondered what the forum experts think of the idea?
https://www.evo.co.uk/aston-martin/v12-vantage/708...
Rich of Redpants runs a supercharged 4.3 and he sometimes posts on here (I forget his user name on PH.https://www.evo.co.uk/aston-martin/v12-vantage/708...
geresey said:
I've not seen this discussed in the forum before so didn't even know it was a thing until this week. Booking in my next service, the indy talked about planning to put one on his (planned) v8 vantage. By coincidence I then saw one with a supercharger kit advertised on PH just now, so looked it up. I'm not planning on doing it, just wondered what the forum experts think of the idea?
https://www.evo.co.uk/aston-martin/v12-vantage/708...
A few years back some chap turned up on this forum discussing this modification. He got a little bit fractious, maybe it was his dinner time or he missed a nap. Anyway, have a look for this using Google rather than the forum search.https://www.evo.co.uk/aston-martin/v12-vantage/708...
Short answer - look at the Range Rover supercharged V8 compression ratios and set-up versus the AML 4.3 and 4.7 v8.
Each to their own, but I wouldn't with your barge pole...
My grandpa told me, that supercharging was quite a popular power modification during the 1960s.
Shorrock was the main name. It was an easy DIY bolt on exercise, just like fitting a dynamo.
A friend of his had an Austin 1100 (bigger brother of the Mini), and not a very powerful car.
With the Shorrock fitted it became great fun. Instantly much more powerful. The inside front wheel would spin when driving out of corners and there was a glorious wailing sound, which becaime louder as the supercharger spun faster.
Then one day, after quite a while of enjoying the much faster car,
BANG, the engine became many pieces of scap metal.
Those BMC engines were quite cheap, so a replacement was soon fitted, but without the supercharger.
It was fun while it lasted.
They said, "It is the extra heat wot did it".
The fashion just seem to go away.
Heat still seems to be the problem. I think a much lower compression ratio, is one of the first essentials for supercharging.
JohnG1 said:
A few years back some chap turned up on this forum discussing this modification. He got a little bit fractious, maybe it was his dinner time or he missed a nap. Anyway, have a look for this using Google rather than the forum search.
Short answer - look at the Range Rover supercharged V8 compression ratios and set-up versus the AML 4.3 and 4.7 v8.
Each to their own, but I wouldn't with your barge pole...
There are lots and lots of after market supercharger kits being run successfully without issue fitted to standard engines . The m3 e46 kit is one example . Short answer - look at the Range Rover supercharged V8 compression ratios and set-up versus the AML 4.3 and 4.7 v8.
Each to their own, but I wouldn't with your barge pole...
Chap round my way runs a GMR supercharged vantage , loves it , another is run successfully in club sprints and hill climbs .
So the reality is that they can and do work .
But it isn’t a cheap conversion in a Vantage
Bamford Rose will never comment on the fact that lots of people have used after market kits successfully .
But you have pulled the pin ... let’s see what happens (again )
I had a brief discussion with GMR a few years ago. Ignoring the engineering- does it produce the power claimed etc, they wouldn't guarantee the engine once the work was done. Whilst I could see their viewpoint that they didn't know what state the engine was in prior to their work, they were basically asking for a shed load of money with no guarantees that they wouldn't damage your engine.
They also recommended brake upgrades and then better suspension. All in all more than the cost to change to a V12 Vantage with no guarantees
They also recommended brake upgrades and then better suspension. All in all more than the cost to change to a V12 Vantage with no guarantees
Jon39 said:
I think a much lower compression ratio, is one of the first essentials for supercharging.
Just my two penneth....
If it was me, I would rather spend the money and put it into a v12 or just do all the mechanical mods to the v8 headers/cats, remap, twin plate clutch, upgraded dampers, bigger brakes etc to make it just a better all round car. I think you can even go down the gt4 engine path and that could deliver similar results but maybe without all the exaggerated/promo BHP that comes with the supercharger.
I think the supercharger option on a Vantage is still frowned upon but at the end of the day, its down to you and what you want.
Each to their own !
I think the supercharger option on a Vantage is still frowned upon but at the end of the day, its down to you and what you want.
Each to their own !
The big issue with the SC conversion was the cost when new and lack of any warranty on the engine (just the conversion parts)
So you spent £20k and if your engine failed you were on your own. The £20k on top of a good V8 at the time brought it close to low end V12 money. The latter being a safe bet from depreciation perspective, whereas trying to sell a modified used old Vantage with an SC conversion has limited market appeal.
So who is the target market for the Vantage Supercharger ? its a niche car and even more niche appeal conversion.
Im all for superchargers where it makes sense. I used to run a SC Honda engined Elise very well for some years. Thats a £3500 off the shelf SC conversion from Jackson Racing on top a couple of grand lightly used mainstream 4 cyl engine. 300-320bhp in an 800kg car made it very appealing from a price/performance ratio. It also came with an unlimited mileage no quibble warranty on the total package from the company doing the conversion. That's what gave owners the confidence in it and it became a popular conversion 15 years ago that still maintain their used value now.
So you spent £20k and if your engine failed you were on your own. The £20k on top of a good V8 at the time brought it close to low end V12 money. The latter being a safe bet from depreciation perspective, whereas trying to sell a modified used old Vantage with an SC conversion has limited market appeal.
So who is the target market for the Vantage Supercharger ? its a niche car and even more niche appeal conversion.
Im all for superchargers where it makes sense. I used to run a SC Honda engined Elise very well for some years. Thats a £3500 off the shelf SC conversion from Jackson Racing on top a couple of grand lightly used mainstream 4 cyl engine. 300-320bhp in an 800kg car made it very appealing from a price/performance ratio. It also came with an unlimited mileage no quibble warranty on the total package from the company doing the conversion. That's what gave owners the confidence in it and it became a popular conversion 15 years ago that still maintain their used value now.
Jon39 said:
My grandpa told me, that supercharging was quite a popular power modification during the 1960s.
Shorrock was the main name. It was an easy DIY bolt on exercise, just like fitting a dynamo.
A friend of his had an Austin 1100 (bigger brother of the Mini), and not a very powerful car.
With the Shorrock fitted it became great fun. Instantly much more powerful. The inside front wheel would spin when driving out of corners and there was a glorious wailing sound, which becaime louder as the supercharger spun faster.
Then one day, after quite a while of enjoying the much faster car,
BANG, the engine became many pieces of scap metal.
Those BMC engines were quite cheap, so a replacement was soon fitted, but without the supercharger.
It was fun while it lasted.
They said, "It is the extra heat wot did it".
The fashion just seem to go away.
Heat still seems to be the problem. I think a much lower compression ratio, is one of the first essentials for supercharging.
The truth is, to gain a meaningful increase in power by supercharging (or indeed, turbocharging), requires lowering the compression ratio (for 97 or 99 octane fuel) to around 8 - 8.5:1, along with changing the cam(s). Larger exhaust valve lift and duration are necessary because otherwise it's just a waste of time. At the end of the day, the engine is simply a big fluid & air pump and you're trying to process more fuel and air through it (efficiently), which when you increase the intake side of the equation, you need to address how all that extra pressure exits the combustion process because the cam spec was chosen for a predetermined volume of air or fuel (which would have since changed).
In any case, superchargers are wonderful, but there's a time and a place.
obligatory proper supercharger photo...
RMDB9 said:
bogie said:
So who is the target market for the Vantage Supercharger ? its a niche car and even more niche appeal conversion.
Probably somebody who already owns a Vantage and who believes he can easily do most of the work himself.bogie said:
RMDB9 said:
bogie said:
So who is the target market for the Vantage Supercharger ? its a niche car and even more niche appeal conversion.
Probably somebody who already owns a Vantage and who believes he can easily do most of the work himself.haha
ha
haha
AstonV said:
geresey said:
Thanks, I think these BR vids answer the question pretty well! As someone else said, it definitely turned out to be a "pull the pin" post given how the thread went.. .. Apologies, that wasn't the intention. Needless to say, this is not something I'd ever contemplate doing, but even less so now!
Plus it's a ridiculous amount of money for not so good returns, IMO. You should probably think through the numbers on those videos, from memory, there is an assumption that if you supercharge a 2 litre engine and it gives you x bhp, then supercharging an engine more than twice the size will still just give you x bhp more. Even though at a given pressure, it will actually pack far more mixture into the larger cylinders of the bigger engine.
If Mike's theory is right, then supercharging my 50cc moped will give it more power than a 1200cc superbike.
If Mike's theory is right, then supercharging my 50cc moped will give it more power than a 1200cc superbike.
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