Can Aston Martin Survive in the Electric Vehicle Era?
Discussion
AdamV12V said:
M1AGM said:
Well one thing is for sure reading some of the opinions here, Aston Martin most certainly will not survive the electric vehicle era if many of those contributing posters are supposed to be their customers.
Indeed, exactly! Back on the actual thread topic finally!Except for the one sole person supporting the pro EV side, who ironically is the only person posting who hasn't actually ever bought an Aston Martin!
Point proven, thread closed!
Clicque-Smash!
AM will be ok as long as the cars are of tolerable quality, very good-looking, and expensive. Engines don’t matter.
SpeckledJim said:
AdamV12V said:
M1AGM said:
Well one thing is for sure reading some of the opinions here, Aston Martin most certainly will not survive the electric vehicle era if many of those contributing posters are supposed to be their customers.
Indeed, exactly! Back on the actual thread topic finally!Except for the one sole person supporting the pro EV side, who ironically is the only person posting who hasn't actually ever bought an Aston Martin!
Point proven, thread closed!
Clicque-Smash!
AM will be ok as long as the cars are of tolerable quality, very good-looking, and expensive. Engines don’t matter.
Everything you spout may (or may not) be relevant to the wider EV debate, but it most certainly is not relevant to this thread.
But don't worry you must be right, because how you see the core attributes of the brand is actually correct and the only thing that matters.
AdamV12V said:
SpeckledJim said:
AdamV12V said:
M1AGM said:
Well one thing is for sure reading some of the opinions here, Aston Martin most certainly will not survive the electric vehicle era if many of those contributing posters are supposed to be their customers.
Indeed, exactly! Back on the actual thread topic finally!Except for the one sole person supporting the pro EV side, who ironically is the only person posting who hasn't actually ever bought an Aston Martin!
Point proven, thread closed!
Clicque-Smash!
AM will be ok as long as the cars are of tolerable quality, very good-looking, and expensive. Engines don’t matter.
Everything you spout may (or may not) be relevant to the wider EV debate, but it most certainly is not relevant to this thread.
But don't worry you must be right, because how you see the core attributes of the brand is actually correct and the only thing that matters.
SpeckledJim said:
Engines don’t matter.
... he says, ignoring multiple posts to the contrary in this and other threads, and demonstrating a fervent belief in the mantra "if I say it enough times, it will be true!"Engines have always been the most important aspect of a performance / enthusiast car, full stop.
If you wish to make an argument that Aston Martins are not, or will not be, performance or enthusiast cars, then the engine may not be as important. Perhaps forum members, presumably enthusiasts (at least, the majority of them) are not representative of current or future Aston customers. I don't believe any of those things, but will concede that Aston may have a future appealing to prestige buyers, and certainly a segment of their sales have been to those types of people in the past.
I wish them all the best. It is a company with a fascinating history and heritage. I just won't be one of their EV customers.
quench said:
SpeckledJim said:
Engines don’t matter.
... he says, ignoring multiple posts to the contrary in this and other threads, and demonstrating a fervent belief in the mantra "if I say it enough times, it will be true!"Engines have always been the most important aspect of a performance / enthusiast car, full stop.
If you wish to make an argument that Aston Martins are not, or will not be, performance or enthusiast cars, then the engine may not be as important. Perhaps forum members, presumably enthusiasts (at least, the majority of them) are not representative of current or future Aston customers. I don't believe any of those things, but will concede that Aston may have a future appealing to prestige buyers, and certainly a segment of their sales have been to those types of people in the past.
I wish them all the best. It is a company with a fascinating history and heritage. I just won't be one of their EV customers.
Are you saying now we've made that one change that nobody is going to be interested in a high-performance luxury sporting car any more?
If you're right, then everyone in that game will be closing their factories and selling their trademarks to the Chinese. But they aren't, are they?
Instead they're enthusiastically engineering high-performance luxury sporting cars with electric motors. They're not voluntarily spending those billions with the expectation of business failure. Maybe they can't sell one to you. But they're not expecting that they're not going to sell to anyone, are they.
Well, Jim, reread my post.
I never said they won't sell them to anyone else, just not to me. And I wasn't joking when I said I wish them well.
The ICE performance car enthusiast may well be replaced by electric car enthusiasts.
Here's a case where I agree with one of your earlier comments. It may happen, but I sure don't get it.
I never said they won't sell them to anyone else, just not to me. And I wasn't joking when I said I wish them well.
The ICE performance car enthusiast may well be replaced by electric car enthusiasts.
Here's a case where I agree with one of your earlier comments. It may happen, but I sure don't get it.
quench said:
Well, Jim, reread my post.
I never said they won't sell them to anyone else, just not to me. And I wasn't joking when I said I wish them well.
The ICE performance car enthusiast may well be replaced by electric car enthusiasts.
Here's a case where I agree with one of your earlier comments. It may happen, but I sure don't get it.
Well, fair enough. It's a task for all the manufacturers to find a new customer for their new EV to replace the lost customer who liked their ICE cars but won't buy an electric one. Certainly those cases exist.I never said they won't sell them to anyone else, just not to me. And I wasn't joking when I said I wish them well.
The ICE performance car enthusiast may well be replaced by electric car enthusiasts.
Here's a case where I agree with one of your earlier comments. It may happen, but I sure don't get it.
It remains to be seen how many people in 2023 say they won't have an EV, but by 2033 will have bitten the bullet.
SpeckledJim said:
Well, fair enough. It's a task for all the manufacturers to find a new customer for their new EV to replace the lost customer who liked their ICE cars but won't buy an electric one. Certainly those cases exist.
It remains to be seen how many people in 2023 say they won't have an EV, but by 2033 will have bitten the bullet.
If they want a new car and the only new cars are EVs they'll have no choice - or buy second-hand. It will be interesting to see what happens to the value of s/h ICE cars when everything else is a £50K+ EV.It remains to be seen how many people in 2023 say they won't have an EV, but by 2033 will have bitten the bullet.
SpeckledJim said:
Engines don’t matter.
If you have never bought an Aston Martin Jim, then I wonder whether you have ever driven one ?
Once behind the wheel, when there is a safe opportunity to use the throttle, you will immediately become aware that the engine does form an important part of the Aston Martin driving experience.
The same car with an electric motor, would probably be faster, but it would then provide a generic driving experience, hence the concern questioned in my topic title.
I could have a Great Wall Funky Cat EV, costing 'peanuts' in comparison and it would probably feel just the same to drive.
Pedestrians might still want to wave to me, but instead of smiling, would they be laughing?
However, I suppose I could do what Richard Hammond did when driving along Ledbury High Street. He put a bag over his head. -
Octavarium said:
Jon39 …. Could you please archive this thread and diarise the reopening of it in 2035 to see where we’re at
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yes, to begin with it will be interesting to see if the UK 2030 ban actually happens.
Now that the EU have already relaxed their 2035 ban, we now know that Porsche will still be selling (IC) 911s.
I strayed on to the PH caravan forum, doing a slight tease by drawing their attention to a Skoda EV (claimed range 320 miles), towing a tiny caravan when the range at steady 60 mph became 68 miles. To recharge, the caravan has to be uncoupled, hope no one nicks it, then drive to the recharging box.
The conclusion was, that caravaners intend to buy new diesel tow cars in 2029 and keep them as long as possible.
It seems that EVs are not any good in practice for towing.
Even some UK politicians are now saying that the planned ban dates cannot happen.
I suspect the answer to the thread title is possibly not unfortunately but I too won’t be a buyer of anything fully electric coming from Aston.
But in fairness I’m not sure I see myself as ever wanting anything from any manufacturer to be fully electric although I concede I may at some point have to succumb to something hybrid.
As such as 2035 draws closer - it’s still a considerably way off - I’ll just have to think of what to buy that has an ICE and makes a proper noise or keep my current fleet and run them as “ classics “.
But in fairness I’m not sure I see myself as ever wanting anything from any manufacturer to be fully electric although I concede I may at some point have to succumb to something hybrid.
As such as 2035 draws closer - it’s still a considerably way off - I’ll just have to think of what to buy that has an ICE and makes a proper noise or keep my current fleet and run them as “ classics “.
Jon39 said:
SpeckledJim said:
Engines don’t matter.
If you have never bought an Aston Martin Jim, then I wonder whether you have ever driven one ?
Once behind the wheel, when there is a safe opportunity to use the throttle, you will immediately become aware that the engine does form an important part of the Aston Martin driving experience.
The same car with an electric motor, would probably be faster, but it would then provide a generic driving experience, hence the concern questioned in my topic title.
I could have a Great Wall Funky Cat EV, costing 'peanuts' in comparison and it would probably feel just the same to drive.
Pedestrians might still want to wave to me, but instead of smiling, would they be laughing?
However, I suppose I could do what Richard Hammond did when driving along Ledbury High Street. He put a bag over his head. -
So, the reason to buy the Aston Martin would seem to be more like 'everything except the engine'.
Of course, it's a great engine. It's part of the reason to buy the car.
But when there's no longer such a thing as a great engine, just a universally huge amount of oomph, then all the manufacturers (and all the customers) are in the same boat.
Whatever those reasons to buy an Aston Martin over a Mercedes might be - they all still apply.
Simpo Two said:
SpeckledJim said:
Well, fair enough. It's a task for all the manufacturers to find a new customer for their new EV to replace the lost customer who liked their ICE cars but won't buy an electric one. Certainly those cases exist.
It remains to be seen how many people in 2023 say they won't have an EV, but by 2033 will have bitten the bullet.
If they want a new car and the only new cars are EVs they'll have no choice - or buy second-hand. It will be interesting to see what happens to the value of s/h ICE cars when everything else is a £50K+ EV.It remains to be seen how many people in 2023 say they won't have an EV, but by 2033 will have bitten the bullet.
What I doubt I'll buy is anything other than an electric SUV or saloon. I just don't see the point and, based on how the Taycan drives, don't especially like electric as a sports car drivetrain.
SpeckledJim said:
If the engine is 'the thing' then you can get the 4.0 V8 'Hot V' Mercedes engine in umpteen cars. Mostly a lot cheaper than an Aston Martin.
So, the reason to buy the Aston Martin would seem to be more like 'everything except the engine'.
Of course, it's a great engine. It's part of the reason to buy the car.
But when there's no longer such a thing as a great engine, just a universally huge amount of oomph, then all the manufacturers (and all the customers) are in the same boat.
Whatever those reasons to buy an Aston Martin over a Mercedes might be - they all still apply.
And still you keep coming back and trolling the thread even more... So, the reason to buy the Aston Martin would seem to be more like 'everything except the engine'.
Of course, it's a great engine. It's part of the reason to buy the car.
But when there's no longer such a thing as a great engine, just a universally huge amount of oomph, then all the manufacturers (and all the customers) are in the same boat.
Whatever those reasons to buy an Aston Martin over a Mercedes might be - they all still apply.
The reason I asked you months ago which Aston you drove was because it was very very obvious from your prior posts that you simply didn't grasp what it was that made Aston Martins appeal to those people who buy them. You have convinced yourself that its nothing more than a brand and as a long as a car has the brand on the boot, well then, its an Aston of course and everyone will love it.
I don't post in the Ferrari section because I simply don't understand the appeal of a Ferrari, which is evident in the fact that I have never bought one, and have no desire to do so in the future. So if I were to start posting some drivel like "Ferrari's should be built in China because xyz reasons, then you can imagine how frustrated the Ferrari owners would get because, as I understand it, a little place called Maranello is really rather importantly linked with what makes their brand what it is. Take that away, and it simply wouldn't be a Ferrari and wouldn't appeal to the vast majority of them.
So to answer your earlier question, no I would not buy any Aston Martin EV, end of. But nor would I buy any brand of EV as the very nature of what an EV is takes away the very things I want from my car. Buying an EV is a case of " nope - over my dead body" for me. I rest happy that I own already, what for me are pretty much the two ultimate Aston Martins made in the last 20years, that are affordable to me. I will run them for as long as I feasibly can, and if I have to or want to buy another car then it will have to be some used ICE car, either Aston or otherwise.
I couldn't care two jots if an EV wins the generic debate about it making for a better car for 99.9% of the public, for me it is a square peg in a round hole. A complete misfit, satisfying not a single thing that I want from a car.
So please stop preaching your endless justification as to why YOU prefer EVs and you don't believe there is any significant to the Aston Martin marque other than the brand name itself.
AdamV12V said:
SpeckledJim said:
If the engine is 'the thing' then you can get the 4.0 V8 'Hot V' Mercedes engine in umpteen cars. Mostly a lot cheaper than an Aston Martin.
So, the reason to buy the Aston Martin would seem to be more like 'everything except the engine'.
Of course, it's a great engine. It's part of the reason to buy the car.
But when there's no longer such a thing as a great engine, just a universally huge amount of oomph, then all the manufacturers (and all the customers) are in the same boat.
Whatever those reasons to buy an Aston Martin over a Mercedes might be - they all still apply.
And still you keep coming back and trolling the thread even more... So, the reason to buy the Aston Martin would seem to be more like 'everything except the engine'.
Of course, it's a great engine. It's part of the reason to buy the car.
But when there's no longer such a thing as a great engine, just a universally huge amount of oomph, then all the manufacturers (and all the customers) are in the same boat.
Whatever those reasons to buy an Aston Martin over a Mercedes might be - they all still apply.
The reason I asked you months ago which Aston you drove was because it was very very obvious from your prior posts that you simply didn't grasp what it was that made Aston Martins appeal to those people who buy them. You have convinced yourself that its nothing more than a brand and as a long as a car has the brand on the boot, well then, its an Aston of course and everyone will love it.
I don't post in the Ferrari section because I simply don't understand the appeal of a Ferrari, which is evident in the fact that I have never bought one, and have no desire to do so in the future. So if I were to start posting some drivel like "Ferrari's should be built in China because xyz reasons, then you can imagine how frustrated the Ferrari owners would get because, as I understand it, a little place called Maranello is really rather importantly linked with what makes their brand what it is. Take that away, and it simply wouldn't be a Ferrari and wouldn't appeal to the vast majority of them.
So to answer your earlier question, no I would not buy any Aston Martin EV, end of. But nor would I buy any brand of EV as the very nature of what an EV is takes away the very things I want from my car. Buying an EV is a case of " nope - over my dead body" for me. I rest happy that I own already, what for me are pretty much the two ultimate Aston Martins made in the last 20years, that are affordable to me. I will run them for as long as I feasibly can, and if I have to or want to buy another car then it will have to be some used ICE car, either Aston or otherwise.
I couldn't care two jots if an EV wins the generic debate about it making for a better car for 99.9% of the public, for me it is a square peg in a round hole. A complete misfit, satisfying not a single thing that I want from a car.
So please stop preaching your endless justification as to why YOU prefer EVs and you don't believe there is any significant to the Aston Martin marque other than the brand name itself.
'he can't possibly know what he's on about, he hasn't even bought the correct car!
You've ruled yourself out of an Aston Martin EV, and also out of any other EV. Fine. Your prerogative.
So the reasons that you bought an Aston Martin all disappear when the car doesn't have an ICE. Yet you found a reason to buy an Aston Martin in a period when everything has an ICE, so there must be something about it in addition to the ICE part that won your favour, in comparison to the other ICE cars you could have bought.
Whatever that thing is (styling, exclusivity, brand, whatever) is still there in 2035. You're free to ignore it, of course, but other people will still see 'it', and value 'it', and buy 'it'.
Aston Martin just has to keep 'it' going. I think that's 'on thread' isn't it?
AdamV12V said:
And still you keep coming back and trolling the thread even more...
The reason I asked you months ago which Aston you drove was because it was very very obvious from your prior posts that you simply didn't grasp what it was that made Aston Martins appeal to those people who buy them. You have convinced yourself that its nothing more than a brand and as a long as a car has the brand on the boot, well then, its an Aston of course and everyone will love it.
I don't post in the Ferrari section because I simply don't understand the appeal of a Ferrari, which is evident in the fact that I have never bought one, and have no desire to do so in the future. So if I were to start posting some drivel like "Ferrari's should be built in China because xyz reasons, then you can imagine how frustrated the Ferrari owners would get because, as I understand it, a little place called Maranello is really rather importantly linked with what makes their brand what it is. Take that away, and it simply wouldn't be a Ferrari and wouldn't appeal to the vast majority of them.
So to answer your earlier question, no I would not buy any Aston Martin EV, end of. But nor would I buy any brand of EV as the very nature of what an EV is takes away the very things I want from my car. Buying an EV is a case of " nope - over my dead body" for me. I rest happy that I own already, what for me are pretty much the two ultimate Aston Martins made in the last 20years, that are affordable to me. I will run them for as long as I feasibly can, and if I have to or want to buy another car then it will have to be some used ICE car, either Aston or otherwise.
I couldn't care two jots if an EV wins the generic debate about it making for a better car for 99.9% of the public, for me it is a square peg in a round hole. A complete misfit, satisfying not a single thing that I want from a car.
So please stop preaching your endless justification as to why YOU prefer EVs and you don't believe there is any significant to the Aston Martin marque other than the brand name itself.
Adam,The reason I asked you months ago which Aston you drove was because it was very very obvious from your prior posts that you simply didn't grasp what it was that made Aston Martins appeal to those people who buy them. You have convinced yourself that its nothing more than a brand and as a long as a car has the brand on the boot, well then, its an Aston of course and everyone will love it.
I don't post in the Ferrari section because I simply don't understand the appeal of a Ferrari, which is evident in the fact that I have never bought one, and have no desire to do so in the future. So if I were to start posting some drivel like "Ferrari's should be built in China because xyz reasons, then you can imagine how frustrated the Ferrari owners would get because, as I understand it, a little place called Maranello is really rather importantly linked with what makes their brand what it is. Take that away, and it simply wouldn't be a Ferrari and wouldn't appeal to the vast majority of them.
So to answer your earlier question, no I would not buy any Aston Martin EV, end of. But nor would I buy any brand of EV as the very nature of what an EV is takes away the very things I want from my car. Buying an EV is a case of " nope - over my dead body" for me. I rest happy that I own already, what for me are pretty much the two ultimate Aston Martins made in the last 20years, that are affordable to me. I will run them for as long as I feasibly can, and if I have to or want to buy another car then it will have to be some used ICE car, either Aston or otherwise.
I couldn't care two jots if an EV wins the generic debate about it making for a better car for 99.9% of the public, for me it is a square peg in a round hole. A complete misfit, satisfying not a single thing that I want from a car.
So please stop preaching your endless justification as to why YOU prefer EVs and you don't believe there is any significant to the Aston Martin marque other than the brand name itself.
The guy is one of those who seem to have infested PistonHeads (the clue is in the name) and they're always right!
The place is becoming full of them who's main interest is how cheap EVs are to run and how fast they are. They also allude to everyone who has no interest in EV's is nothing but a dinosaur Whilst they're all wearing sandals worn with white socks and thinking they're saving the planet,
moktabe said:
AdamV12V said:
And still you keep coming back and trolling the thread even more...
The reason I asked you months ago which Aston you drove was because it was very very obvious from your prior posts that you simply didn't grasp what it was that made Aston Martins appeal to those people who buy them. You have convinced yourself that its nothing more than a brand and as a long as a car has the brand on the boot, well then, its an Aston of course and everyone will love it.
I don't post in the Ferrari section because I simply don't understand the appeal of a Ferrari, which is evident in the fact that I have never bought one, and have no desire to do so in the future. So if I were to start posting some drivel like "Ferrari's should be built in China because xyz reasons, then you can imagine how frustrated the Ferrari owners would get because, as I understand it, a little place called Maranello is really rather importantly linked with what makes their brand what it is. Take that away, and it simply wouldn't be a Ferrari and wouldn't appeal to the vast majority of them.
So to answer your earlier question, no I would not buy any Aston Martin EV, end of. But nor would I buy any brand of EV as the very nature of what an EV is takes away the very things I want from my car. Buying an EV is a case of " nope - over my dead body" for me. I rest happy that I own already, what for me are pretty much the two ultimate Aston Martins made in the last 20years, that are affordable to me. I will run them for as long as I feasibly can, and if I have to or want to buy another car then it will have to be some used ICE car, either Aston or otherwise.
I couldn't care two jots if an EV wins the generic debate about it making for a better car for 99.9% of the public, for me it is a square peg in a round hole. A complete misfit, satisfying not a single thing that I want from a car.
So please stop preaching your endless justification as to why YOU prefer EVs and you don't believe there is any significant to the Aston Martin marque other than the brand name itself.
Adam,The reason I asked you months ago which Aston you drove was because it was very very obvious from your prior posts that you simply didn't grasp what it was that made Aston Martins appeal to those people who buy them. You have convinced yourself that its nothing more than a brand and as a long as a car has the brand on the boot, well then, its an Aston of course and everyone will love it.
I don't post in the Ferrari section because I simply don't understand the appeal of a Ferrari, which is evident in the fact that I have never bought one, and have no desire to do so in the future. So if I were to start posting some drivel like "Ferrari's should be built in China because xyz reasons, then you can imagine how frustrated the Ferrari owners would get because, as I understand it, a little place called Maranello is really rather importantly linked with what makes their brand what it is. Take that away, and it simply wouldn't be a Ferrari and wouldn't appeal to the vast majority of them.
So to answer your earlier question, no I would not buy any Aston Martin EV, end of. But nor would I buy any brand of EV as the very nature of what an EV is takes away the very things I want from my car. Buying an EV is a case of " nope - over my dead body" for me. I rest happy that I own already, what for me are pretty much the two ultimate Aston Martins made in the last 20years, that are affordable to me. I will run them for as long as I feasibly can, and if I have to or want to buy another car then it will have to be some used ICE car, either Aston or otherwise.
I couldn't care two jots if an EV wins the generic debate about it making for a better car for 99.9% of the public, for me it is a square peg in a round hole. A complete misfit, satisfying not a single thing that I want from a car.
So please stop preaching your endless justification as to why YOU prefer EVs and you don't believe there is any significant to the Aston Martin marque other than the brand name itself.
The guy is one of those who seem to have infested PistonHeads (the clue is in the name) and they're always right!
The place is becoming full of them who's main interest is how cheap EVs are to run and how fast they are. They also allude to everyone who has no interest in EV's is nothing but a dinosaur Whilst they're all wearing sandals worn with white socks and thinking they're saving the planet,
I'm pretty much the only one on the thread with any optimism about the future of Aston Martin. Everyone else reckons they're never buying another, so they might as well turn out the lights.
I think the future is brighter than it's been for a while - the status quo isn't working and this change is an opportunity.
20yrs?....good for you.
However I don't have to justify anything to you....you obviously have absolutely no interest whatsoever in Aston Martin and you are only on this sub-forum to beat your drum about EVs.
I find it quite amusing you failed to deny anything about sandals and white socks though, presumably you also have a shaggy beard?
What is it that you fail to see about no-one on this sub-forum has any interest in your drum banging? Plus leccyheads like yourself simply cannot accept that EVs aren't the be all and end all of motoring to all and sundry?....now awaiting the response where you say "no one will have a choice". Maybe they do have one and decide to either stick with the ICE AM they have or look into the used market.
If you want one (or have one) then great, again good for you however give people a break and stop preaching that we all should have one.....by the way, I think your white socks can come out of the tumble drier now as they should be dry.
However I don't have to justify anything to you....you obviously have absolutely no interest whatsoever in Aston Martin and you are only on this sub-forum to beat your drum about EVs.
I find it quite amusing you failed to deny anything about sandals and white socks though, presumably you also have a shaggy beard?
What is it that you fail to see about no-one on this sub-forum has any interest in your drum banging? Plus leccyheads like yourself simply cannot accept that EVs aren't the be all and end all of motoring to all and sundry?....now awaiting the response where you say "no one will have a choice". Maybe they do have one and decide to either stick with the ICE AM they have or look into the used market.
If you want one (or have one) then great, again good for you however give people a break and stop preaching that we all should have one.....by the way, I think your white socks can come out of the tumble drier now as they should be dry.
SpeckledJim said:
So the conclusion to the thread is:
"No. They're doomed. Nobody will buy one. Only one guy thinks they stand a chance, and he didn't even buy an ICE one so we all wish he'd go away."
All done?
All done?"No. They're doomed. Nobody will buy one. Only one guy thinks they stand a chance, and he didn't even buy an ICE one so we all wish he'd go away."
All done?
Fat chance of that with all the drivel you and your ilk tend to spout.
All done?
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