Can Aston Martin Survive in the Electric Vehicle Era?
Discussion
Jon39 said:
Hoofy said:
I'd love to know what a pure EV sports car is like to drive compared to a similar modern ICE.
(Richard Hammond might be able to tell you how the 2 seater Rimac performs.)
............
Facetious suggestion, but you never know, it might be true.
Take a perfectly balanced (front/rear) Aston Martin Vantage, then strap in 1 ton of lead weights.
Drive around the twisty Cadwell Park circuit as fast as you can and report back with your findings.
Take care at the downhill approach to the Hairpin corner. You might find the car understeering off the track towards Skegness!
Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 14th July 13:39
Well, is it about performance alone? Any of Tesla's range of family cars will outperform many modern sports cars for the same money.
Piston Ted said:
SpeckledJim said:
But they won't sound like a V12. Everyone can decide for themselves how important that is.
For me VERY important I’m afraid. More important than the 0-60 time, more important than whether it’s the best in its class for handling, more important than having apple car play music (or whatever it’s called) more important than the latest touch screen glued to the dashboard and certainly far far more important than ‘the joy’ of starting a journey with 100% juice.Edited by ds666 on Thursday 14th July 15:18
Jon39 said:
Hoofy said:
I'd love to know what a pure EV sports car is like to drive compared to a similar modern ICE.
(Richard Hammond might be able to tell you how the 2 seater Rimac performs.)
............
Facetious suggestion, but you never know, it might be true.
Take a perfectly balanced (front/rear) Aston Martin Vantage, then strap in 1 ton of lead weights.
Drive around the twisty Cadwell Park circuit as fast as you can and report back with your findings.
Take care at the downhill approach to the Hairpin corner. You might find the car understeering off the track towards Skegness!
Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 14th July 13:39
Piston Ted said:
SpeckledJim said:
But they won't sound like a V12. Everyone can decide for themselves how important that is.
For me VERY important I’m afraid. More important than the 0-60 time, more important than whether it’s the best in its class for handling, more important than having apple car play music (or whatever it’s called) more important than the latest touch screen glued to the dashboard and certainly far far more important than ‘the joy’ of starting a journey with 100% juice.I would say that once every new sports car on offer is an EV, then the people who today are deciding between new V12 Ferraris and Bentleys and Aston Martins will, for the very most part, be choosing between EV Ferraris and Bentleys and Aston Martins.
They'll miss their V12s. But not enough to remove themselves from the market. The other reasons why they always wanted an expensive, beautiful, flash car will still all exist, absent the noise. Objectively, their new EV Ferrari will be a superior product to their old V12 Ferrari in some significant ways.
Jon39 said:
Hoofy said:
I'd love to know what a pure EV sports car is like to drive compared to a similar modern ICE.
(Richard Hammond might be able to tell you how the 2 seater Rimac performs.)
............
Facetious suggestion, but you never know, it might be true.
Take a perfectly balanced (front/rear) Aston Martin Vantage, then strap in 1 ton of lead weights.
Drive around the twisty Cadwell Park circuit as fast as you can and report back with your findings.
Take care at the downhill approach to the Hairpin corner. You might find the car understeering off the track towards Skegness!
Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 14th July 13:39
But, in all likelihood, a pinnacle-of-development ICE Vantage wouldn't see which way the very first electric AM Vantage went.
The EV will be in a completely different league for performance, and if they get their heads around the torque-vectoring potential, it might also be more fun.
They have their weaknesses, of course, but they also have undeniable strengths.
Here is one comparison that an EV cannot match.
I know that most people like to use the very latest model car, so probably my comparison has little relevance.
For 23 years, my trusty Mercedes has provided completely reliable (and therefore as it turned out, overall very cheap) daily driving.
Which electric car could do that, for so many years, with the original rotational power system ?
Daily driver cars tend to be replaced frequently, but many owners of Aston Martins keep their cars for a much longer time, so there is some relevance for us. I have owned my Vantage for 10 years and it is now 12 years old. Still looks new, but if it was an EV, might soon need a new main battery. That might mean the scrap heap.
Thank you to the EU for allowing their low volume manufacturers an extra 5 years of IC. Hopefully for AML, the UK will follow.
Jon39 said:
ds666 said:
Jon - which EV's have you driven ?
None ds, but adding considerable extra weight, cannot improve the handling of any motor vehicle.
Colin Chapman was the disciple of that science and proved it many times.
The BMW I4 weighs in at 2040ish KG, not light that’s for sure. The ICE 4 series is quoted at “ 1,625kg - 1,930kg” - hardy on the diet pills either.
Model 3 = 1,725 to 1,819 kg
Edited by dbs2000 on Thursday 14th July 18:15
Jon39 said:
ds666 said:
Jon - which EV's have you driven ?
None ds, but adding considerable extra weight, cannot improve the handling of any motor vehicle.
Colin Chapman was the disciple of that science and proved it many times.
You will be amazed .
Jon39 said:
I expect you have all noticed, that EV buyers spend say £75,000 to £100,000 on an electric car, then immediately say how cheap the fuel is.
Why are they even worried about fuel cost?
Must be almost the same as people who buy a £100,000 motor home, go to a campsite and discuss how much they save each year on 3 weeks hotel cost. Perhaps they are the same people! They cannot be accountants.
I thought you'd recognise Man Maths when you see it Jon!Why are they even worried about fuel cost?
Must be almost the same as people who buy a £100,000 motor home, go to a campsite and discuss how much they save each year on 3 weeks hotel cost. Perhaps they are the same people! They cannot be accountants.
I have a theory on EVs. If you just want something to whisk you from A-B in auto, silently, then bingo, you're in.
But if you're used to a rorty manual sports car like a TVR or V8V, then you need a stick to stir and some noise. So, whilst we know that EVs don't need a gearbox, if you put one in, and some sort of loudness, you might get back some of the entertainment.
Imagine that you had the whole clout of an EV's power just from 0-30mph before you had to change into second - imagine how fast off the line THAT would be...
ds666 said:
Drive a decent ev and then come back and comment .
You will be amazed .
The McGurty Nutter-B*stard at Goodwood was truly amazing. Not so sure of the range though!You will be amazed .
Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 14th July 18:53
Dewi 2 said:
Here is one comparison that an EV cannot match.
I know that most people like to use the very latest model car, so probably my comparison has little relevance.
For 23 years, my trusty Mercedes has provided completely reliable (and therefore as it turned out, overall very cheap) daily driving.
Which electric car could do that, for so many years, with the original rotational power system ?
Daily driver cars tend to be replaced frequently, but many owners of Aston Martins keep their cars for a much longer time, so there is some relevance for us. I have owned my Vantage for 10 years and it is now 12 years old. Still looks new, but if it was an EV, might soon need a new main battery. That might mean the scrap heap.
Thank you to the EU for allowing their low volume manufacturers an extra 5 years of IC. Hopefully for AML, the UK will follow.
ds666 said:
Dewi 2 said:
Here is one comparison that an EV cannot match.
I know that most people like to use the very latest model car, so probably my comparison has little relevance.
For 23 years, my trusty Mercedes has provided completely reliable (and therefore as it turned out, overall very cheap) daily driving.
Which electric car could do that, for so many years, with the original rotational power system ?
Daily driver cars tend to be replaced frequently, but many owners of Aston Martins keep their cars for a much longer time, so there is some relevance for us. I have owned my Vantage for 10 years and it is now 12 years old. Still looks new, but if it was an EV, might soon need a new main battery. That might mean the scrap heap.
Thank you to the EU for allowing their low volume manufacturers an extra 5 years of IC. Hopefully for AML, the UK will follow.
Obviously it is statistically too early to draw any sensible conclusion.
There has been some, but very little publicity at present, about battery failures. We are mainly shown fires, which annoy fire brigades because they keep reigniting and crashes, when the automatic driver supposedly fails to see danger ahead.
My example was 23 years, so if an EV battery can last 23 years, then EVs win.
There’s a reason everything in our houses runs on electricity.
It’s reliable, simple, cheap, clean, powerful, reliable.
Did I mention reliable?
If you love your car because it runs on petrol that’s absolutely fine. Take good care of it and keep it forever.
But EV is, mostly, just a better way. Not always. But mostly.
It’s reliable, simple, cheap, clean, powerful, reliable.
Did I mention reliable?
If you love your car because it runs on petrol that’s absolutely fine. Take good care of it and keep it forever.
But EV is, mostly, just a better way. Not always. But mostly.
Simpo Two said:
Jon39 said:
I expect you have all noticed, that EV buyers spend say £75,000 to £100,000 on an electric car, then immediately say how cheap the fuel is.
Why are they even worried about fuel cost?
Must be almost the same as people who buy a £100,000 motor home, go to a campsite and discuss how much they save each year on 3 weeks hotel cost. Perhaps they are the same people! They cannot be accountants.
I thought you'd recognise Man Maths when you see it Jon!Why are they even worried about fuel cost?
Must be almost the same as people who buy a £100,000 motor home, go to a campsite and discuss how much they save each year on 3 weeks hotel cost. Perhaps they are the same people! They cannot be accountants.
I have a theory on EVs. If you just want something to whisk you from A-B in auto, silently, then bingo, you're in.
But if you're used to a rorty manual sports car like a TVR or V8V, then you need a stick to stir and some noise. So, whilst we know that EVs don't need a gearbox, if you put one in, and some sort of loudness, you might get back some of the entertainment.
Imagine that you had the whole clout of an EV's power just from 0-30mph before you had to change into second - imagine how fast off the line THAT would be...
ds666 said:
Drive a decent ev and then come back and comment .
You will be amazed .
The McGurty Nutter-B*stard at Goodwood was truly amazing. Not so sure of the range though!You will be amazed .
Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 14th July 18:53
An EV with a manual gearbox simply wouldn’t sell. Everyone would choose lazy, just as we’re seeing in the ICE market now.
SpeckledJim said:
Simpo Two said:
Jon39 said:
I expect you have all noticed, that EV buyers spend say £75,000 to £100,000 on an electric car, then immediately say how cheap the fuel is.
Why are they even worried about fuel cost?
Must be almost the same as people who buy a £100,000 motor home, go to a campsite and discuss how much they save each year on 3 weeks hotel cost. Perhaps they are the same people! They cannot be accountants.
I thought you'd recognise Man Maths when you see it Jon!Why are they even worried about fuel cost?
Must be almost the same as people who buy a £100,000 motor home, go to a campsite and discuss how much they save each year on 3 weeks hotel cost. Perhaps they are the same people! They cannot be accountants.
I have a theory on EVs. If you just want something to whisk you from A-B in auto, silently, then bingo, you're in.
But if you're used to a rorty manual sports car like a TVR or V8V, then you need a stick to stir and some noise. So, whilst we know that EVs don't need a gearbox, if you put one in, and some sort of loudness, you might get back some of the entertainment.
Imagine that you had the whole clout of an EV's power just from 0-30mph before you had to change into second - imagine how fast off the line THAT would be...
ds666 said:
Drive a decent ev and then come back and comment .
You will be amazed .
The McGurty Nutter-B*stard at Goodwood was truly amazing. Not so sure of the range though!You will be amazed .
Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 14th July 18:53
An EV with a manual gearbox simply wouldn’t sell. Everyone would choose lazy, just as we’re seeing in the ICE market now.
Simpo Two said:
Jon39 said:
I expect you have all noticed, that EV buyers spend say £75,000 to £100,000 on an electric car, then immediately say how cheap the fuel is.
Why are they even worried about fuel cost?
Must be almost the same as people who buy a £100,000 motor home, go to a campsite and discuss how much they save each year on 3 weeks hotel cost. Perhaps they are the same people! They cannot be accountants.
I thought you'd recognise Man Maths when you see it Jon!Why are they even worried about fuel cost?
Must be almost the same as people who buy a £100,000 motor home, go to a campsite and discuss how much they save each year on 3 weeks hotel cost. Perhaps they are the same people! They cannot be accountants.
Simpo Two said:
Imagine that you had the whole clout of an EV's power just from 0-30mph before you had to change into second - imagine how fast off the line THAT would be...
These days John, I try to be as law abiding as possible on the road. Want to keep my licence clean.
0 to 100mph to 0 in 15 seconds and top 180 mph, has never been verified.
To back up my philosophy, I noticed yesterday on the opposite carriageway of the M4, repeated flashing of a speed camera. Every oncoming car was being caught. Most unusual. After I passed the gantry, I could see in my door mirror, that there were 50 mph speed signs illuminated. Had previously not observed a reason for the other carriageway to require a reduced speed limit.
Imagine switching on the 50 mph signs, then collecting tens of thousands of Pounds every minute. How clever is that? Perhaps that is what Smart Motorway means (although they have been rebranded now, following so many deaths, to Digital Motorways). Wonder who gets to keep the fines money?
Have you noticed, many drivers won't use lane 1, so the hard shoulder is partly still there ?
Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 14th July 20:17
Dewi 2 said:
For 23 years, my trusty Mercedes has provided completely reliable (and therefore as it turned out, overall very cheap) daily driving.
Which electric car could do that, for so many years, with the original rotational power system ?
SpeckledJim said:
There’s a reason everything in our houses runs on electricity.
It’s reliable, simple, cheap, clean, powerful, reliable.
Did I mention reliable?
If you love your car because it runs on petrol that’s absolutely fine. Take good care of it and keep it forever.
But EV is, mostly, just a better way. Not always. But mostly.
That's not really a valid comparison because you could hardly have domestic appliances using IC. A V8 toaster, a flat-four vacuum cleaner, a diesel television...? And houses have the wonderful advantage of being attached to the national grid - unless yours runs on batteries It’s reliable, simple, cheap, clean, powerful, reliable.
Did I mention reliable?
If you love your car because it runs on petrol that’s absolutely fine. Take good care of it and keep it forever.
But EV is, mostly, just a better way. Not always. But mostly.
Jon39 said:
These days John, I try to be as law abiding as possible on the road. Want to keep my licence clean.
Makes perfect sense. But - so far anyway - there is no law against acceleration, unless they introduce 'Conspiring to speed' or 'Driving a desirable car during the hours of daylight', in which case we are all doomed...Simpo Two said:
SpeckledJim said:
There’s a reason everything in our houses runs on electricity.
It’s reliable, simple, cheap, clean, powerful, reliable.
Did I mention reliable?
If you love your car because it runs on petrol that’s absolutely fine. Take good care of it and keep it forever.
But EV is, mostly, just a better way. Not always. But mostly.
That's not really a valid comparison because you could hardly have domestic appliances using IC. A V8 toaster, a flat-four vacuum cleaner, a diesel television...? And houses have the wonderful advantage of being attached to the national grid - unless yours runs on batteries It’s reliable, simple, cheap, clean, powerful, reliable.
Did I mention reliable?
If you love your car because it runs on petrol that’s absolutely fine. Take good care of it and keep it forever.
But EV is, mostly, just a better way. Not always. But mostly.
Jon39 said:
These days John, I try to be as law abiding as possible on the road. Want to keep my licence clean.
Makes perfect sense. But - so far anyway - there is no law against acceleration, unless they introduce 'Conspiring to speed' or 'Driving a desirable car during the hours of daylight', in which case we are all doomed...Now that we have the battery tech to have cars running on electricity, like the hoover, we will quickly see that in general, it makes sense to do it that way.
Not always. But mostly.
SpeckledJim said:
You could absolutely have a single cylinder petrol hoover.
You don’t, because such a thing would be awful when it worked, and worse when it didn’t.
You don’t, because such a thing would be awful when it worked, and worse when it didn’t.
Yes, they are awful, achieve nothing, except to annoy anyone with ears.
The new name is leaf blower. In action already, blowing dust. Leaves have not even begun falling.
Blow leaves one day, then later the wind blows them back where they came from.
If your gardener uses these infernal combustion machines, it is simply a ploy to look busy, whilst waiting for you to pay.
Probably knows nothing about horticulture.
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