Can Aston Martin Survive in the Electric Vehicle Era?
Discussion
Simpo Two said:
After all, why go to the bother and expense of making cars yourself when you can just buy them from China like everything else?
Clever those Chinese; gradually getting the world by the balls.
(not sure about 'Ora Funky Cat' as a brand though)
Clever those Chinese; gradually getting the world by the balls.
(not sure about 'Ora Funky Cat' as a brand though)
Have you looked at their website (link in my post above)?
Some might say a breath of fresh air, if you are in the target market.
Certainly a different style from most other car makers.
There are some YT videos showing hugely automated Chinese car factories.
One can produce a finished car every 15 seconds.
If they try to bring their cars here through Dover, that might give our car makers a bit of chance. -
NMNeil said:
Going to really limit the choice of cars at the dealership after they all go into bankruptcy 
Some say, an EV is just a fast generic domestic appliance, so if they all feel so similar, then not many car manufacturers will be needed.
Anyway, manufacturers seem now to be trying to ditch dealerships and sell online themselves instead.
So much changes very quickly these days.
Perhaps all the giant glass car dealerships, will become the next bank branches.
Whereas many bank branches became coffee shops, I don't know who could use a huge glass showroom building.
Quick run for it.
Jon39 said:
Some say, an EV is just a fast generic domestic appliance, so if they all feel so similar, then not many car manufacturers will be needed.
....
I was very pleasantly surprised with the way a Taycan drives (binned my order because of dicking about with orders by Porsche...and the heater issues probably meant a bullet may have been dodged...but it felt like a Porsche).....
With the right engineers, Aston could make a car drive properly.
Jon39 said:
Some say, an EV is just a fast generic domestic appliance, so if they all feel so similar, then not many car manufacturers will be needed.
Anyway, manufacturers seem now to be trying to ditch dealerships and sell online themselves instead.
So much changes very quickly these days.
Perhaps all the giant glass car dealerships, will become the next bank branches.
Whereas many bank branches became coffee shops, I don't know who could use a huge glass showroom building.
Quick run for it.
AstonV said:
McDonalds is planning to remake the fast food industry. Going all automated. No more humans. Unfortunately this is being brought on by idiot politicians. They keep driving up the minimum wage. These jobs were never meant to be a career, they were for students and part time jobs. So now there will be no or minimal jobs.
This will be the start of the split of civilisation in the modern world, Millions of people are out of work as robots have replaced them, then the joke will be McDonald's may struggle to survive when the core customer base can no longer pay for the food they sell.
We have seen in the March new car sales figures, that two Chinese makes of electric cars have now commenced sales in Britain.
A YT video has appeared, showing numerous Chinese EVs catching fire.
Who knows whether this film is exaggerated. I don't know, but thought a link might be of some interest.
Jon39 said:
We have seen in the March new car sales figures, that two Chinese makes of electric cars have now commenced sales in Britain.
A YT video has appeared, showing numerous Chinese EVs catching fire.
Who knows whether this film is exaggerated. I don't know, but thought a link might be of some interest.
...
Only had a cursory glance, but:
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/are-electric-car-fi...
Suggests they're harder to deal with when they happen, but not as likely....
We'll see.
Jon39 said:
Some say, an EV is just a fast generic domestic appliance, so if they all feel so similar, then not many car manufacturers will be needed.
Anyway, manufacturers seem now to be trying to ditch dealerships and sell online themselves instead.
So much changes very quickly these days.
Perhaps all the giant glass car dealerships, will become the next bank branches.
Whereas many bank branches became coffee shops, I don't know who could use a huge glass showroom building.
Quick run for it.
Murph7355 said:
Jon39 said:
We have seen in the March new car sales figures, that two Chinese makes of electric cars have now commenced sales in Britain.
A YT video has appeared, showing numerous Chinese EVs catching fire.
Who knows whether this film is exaggerated. I don't know, but thought a link might be of some interest.
...
Only had a cursory glance, but:
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/are-electric-car-fi...
Suggests they're harder to deal with when they happen, but not as likely....
We'll see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1b7nH8L5Ko&t=...
This was something I posted in page 47 of this thread.
Also professional Fire Risk Assessors and the Fire Brigade are giving advice that EV's represent an increased risk of fire over ICE vehicles.
We had two Fire Risk Assessment's (An external wall and a Type 1) undertaken at the end of 2022 to form the basis of our Building Safety Fund grant (remediation of dangerous layers of cladding), and the advice from the Fire Risk Assessors was that the two EV's we had in the garage (out of c45 spaces) presented an increased risk of Fire and we were not to permit any additional EV's to be kept in the garage until defects have been remediated. A follow up site inspection from local Fire Brigade was triggered, and they also noted the two EV's and reiterated the same instructions about no additional EV's due to their increased risk of fire.
So without doubt the official stance of those in charge of such things in the UK, is that EV's are a greater fire risk than ICE vehicles. That maybe right or wrong, I do not know, but I can assure you it is the case.
We had two Fire Risk Assessment's (An external wall and a Type 1) undertaken at the end of 2022 to form the basis of our Building Safety Fund grant (remediation of dangerous layers of cladding), and the advice from the Fire Risk Assessors was that the two EV's we had in the garage (out of c45 spaces) presented an increased risk of Fire and we were not to permit any additional EV's to be kept in the garage until defects have been remediated. A follow up site inspection from local Fire Brigade was triggered, and they also noted the two EV's and reiterated the same instructions about no additional EV's due to their increased risk of fire.
So without doubt the official stance of those in charge of such things in the UK, is that EV's are a greater fire risk than ICE vehicles. That maybe right or wrong, I do not know, but I can assure you it is the case.
Did they mean an increased risk of fire to the building because EV fires are more difficult to put out, or because EVs combust more frequently? I presume the former because of the comment that more EVs would be acceptable once the inherent fire issues with the building have been addressed?
M1AGM said:
Did they mean an increased risk of fire to the building because EV fires are more difficult to put out, or because EVs combust more frequently? I presume the former because of the comment that more EVs would be acceptable once the inherent fire issues with the building have been addressed?
The wording on EV cars was vague but the wording on EV bikes was quite specific:"Ensure electric scooters with lithium ion batteries which can be temporarily hired across the City by the general population are not housed within close proximity of the building. They pose a potential spontaneous ignition risk."
One assumes the same logic applies to lithium ion batteries in EV's then too, even if it wasn't worded as clearly.
According to this article published by the WY fire service e-scooters, e-bikes and mobility scooters are a risk:
https://www.westyorksfire.gov.uk/news/fire-chief-w...
Perhaps the specific reference to hire scooters is due to heavy use and abuse of the things?
“According to figures around 700 fires a year are caused by inappropriate disposal of lithium batteries. The Environmental Services Association says resulting fires cost fire services and waste operators some £158m a year.
Across the country there are a growing number of incidents involving rechargeable household items including E-Cigarettes, E-Scooters, E-bikes, Hover Boards, phones, powerpacks, laptops, children’s toys and rechargeable power tools. All of these incidents have been caused by the lithium battery failing due to issues which include damage, overheating or using an incorrect charging cable.”
So anything with a lithium battery is a fire risk…..
https://www.westyorksfire.gov.uk/news/fire-chief-w...
Perhaps the specific reference to hire scooters is due to heavy use and abuse of the things?
“According to figures around 700 fires a year are caused by inappropriate disposal of lithium batteries. The Environmental Services Association says resulting fires cost fire services and waste operators some £158m a year.
Across the country there are a growing number of incidents involving rechargeable household items including E-Cigarettes, E-Scooters, E-bikes, Hover Boards, phones, powerpacks, laptops, children’s toys and rechargeable power tools. All of these incidents have been caused by the lithium battery failing due to issues which include damage, overheating or using an incorrect charging cable.”
So anything with a lithium battery is a fire risk…..
AstonV said:
I was reading about Ford today. I didn’t realize but the EV will be the death nail to the dealerships. All EV’s will be online order only, dealers won’t stock. They will be service only. I would bet most won’t survive. Doesn’t look too good for the factory workers either. I own 3 Fords. I’ll never own another.
Not sure that's 100% accurate.Ford gave their franchised dealers the option of selling EV's or go out of business when Ford stops making ICE engines.
The dealerships had such a bad reputation for gouging the customers on prices that Ford decided to just go with a 'This is the price you pay, no negotiations', model.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/dealers-will-feel-for...
As for no cars in stock; I doubt it as nobody will buy a car if they can't test drive it. So It will probably be, go to the dealership, test drive a car, order the car at Ford's fixed no haggle pricing, and have it delivered to the dealership so the new owner can collect it.
NMNeil said:
Not sure that's 100% accurate.
Ford gave their franchised dealers the option of selling EV's or go out of business when Ford stops making ICE engines.
The dealerships had such a bad reputation for gouging the customers on prices that Ford decided to just go with a 'This is the price you pay, no negotiations', model.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/dealers-will-feel-for...
As for no cars in stock; I doubt it as nobody will buy a car if they can't test drive it. So It will probably be, go to the dealership, test drive a car, order the car at Ford's fixed no haggle pricing, and have it delivered to the dealership so the new owner can collect it.
I agree that Ford dealers have been gouging for years, and I have no sympathy for them. Since they are private businesses it is totally legal. But Ford has known about this for years and have done nothing. Dealers will also sell below MSRP close to invoice to get business. Unfortunately it's more about cutting out the middle man, people will lose jobs. Who know, they don't need dealerships. Cars can be delivered directly to the buyer. The Amazon-ization of the auto industry. Ford gave their franchised dealers the option of selling EV's or go out of business when Ford stops making ICE engines.
The dealerships had such a bad reputation for gouging the customers on prices that Ford decided to just go with a 'This is the price you pay, no negotiations', model.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/dealers-will-feel-for...
As for no cars in stock; I doubt it as nobody will buy a car if they can't test drive it. So It will probably be, go to the dealership, test drive a car, order the car at Ford's fixed no haggle pricing, and have it delivered to the dealership so the new owner can collect it.
BiggaJ said:
These guys seem to be saying something different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1b7nH8L5Ko&t=...
This was something I posted in page 47 of this thread.
I'm not an EV owner, nor your typical environmentalist - 2x V8s, a flat six and a slightly mad 4 see to that. But....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1b7nH8L5Ko&t=...
This was something I posted in page 47 of this thread.
"These guys"? If anyone is reliant on the two main speakers "against" there, then they have no hope.
There is no objective assessment being given whatsoever.
I fully agree that the end to end impacts of EVs are poorly thought out. The mining of cobalt and battery production are good points. But how do they compare with the production of other consumerist goods?
On fires, there is no objective comparison in the arguments given. How many equivalent ICE fires have their been? What's the toxicity of run off from an ICE fire in comparison (fuel, oil etc).
The lady insisting on 100% safety before anything is done is barking mad. We'd all still be walking everywhere if that criteria were used in everything.
Hydrogen? How does the lady mooting this think hydrogen is produced? And how safe that is to store?
The post above about fire assessments, as someone else notes, seems more to do with potential risk in contained areas - it would be interesting to know what "other issues" they are asking to be sorted before any change in assessment is made...
ICE has a lot of life left in it yet. ICE cars won't fall off the face of the earth in 2035. But change is coming.
(The guy at the end makes a good point on cycle lanes, but that's a totally different argument
).AstonV said:
I agree that Ford dealers have been gouging for years, and I have no sympathy for them. Since they are private businesses it is totally legal. But Ford has known about this for years and have done nothing. Dealers will also sell below MSRP close to invoice to get business. Unfortunately it's more about cutting out the middle man, people will lose jobs. Who know, they don't need dealerships. Cars can be delivered directly to the buyer. The Amazon-ization of the auto industry.
But if your new Ford EV needs warranty repairs, where would you go?Murph7355 said:
BiggaJ said:
These guys seem to be saying something different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1b7nH8L5Ko&t=...
This was something I posted in page 47 of this thread.
I'm not an EV owner, nor your typical environmentalist - 2x V8s, a flat six and a slightly mad 4 see to that. But....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1b7nH8L5Ko&t=...
This was something I posted in page 47 of this thread.
"These guys"? If anyone is reliant on the two main speakers "against" there, then they have no hope.
There is no objective assessment being given whatsoever.
I fully agree that the end to end impacts of EVs are poorly thought out. The mining of cobalt and battery production are good points. But how do they compare with the production of other consumerist goods?
Notice the absence of cobalt and nickel.
Murph7355 said:
BiggaJ said:
These guys seem to be saying something different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1b7nH8L5Ko&t=...
This was something I posted in page 47 of this thread.
I'm not an EV owner, nor your typical environmentalist - 2x V8s, a flat six and a slightly mad 4 see to that. But....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1b7nH8L5Ko&t=...
This was something I posted in page 47 of this thread.
"These guys"? If anyone is reliant on the two main speakers "against" there, then they have no hope.
There is no objective assessment being given whatsoever.
I fully agree that the end to end impacts of EVs are poorly thought out. The mining of cobalt and battery production are good points. But how do they compare with the production of other consumerist goods?
On fires, there is no objective comparison in the arguments given. How many equivalent ICE fires have their been? What's the toxicity of run off from an ICE fire in comparison (fuel, oil etc).
The lady insisting on 100% safety before anything is done is barking mad. We'd all still be walking everywhere if that criteria were used in everything.
Hydrogen? How does the lady mooting this think hydrogen is produced? And how safe that is to store?
The post above about fire assessments, as someone else notes, seems more to do with potential risk in contained areas - it would be interesting to know what "other issues" they are asking to be sorted before any change in assessment is made...
ICE has a lot of life left in it yet. ICE cars won't fall off the face of the earth in 2035. But change is coming.
(The guy at the end makes a good point on cycle lanes, but that's a totally different argument
).Hydrogen is ludicrously unmanageable and bloody dangerous in comparison to electricity. Not to mention hugely less efficient. We'd be better off sticking with petrol. At least petrol stays in the tank you put it in.
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