V12 vantage official
Discussion
BlackWidow13 said:
.... And a Merc derived (probably not that great an issue) turbocharged engine (hmm) vs the lovely NA 5.9.
Obviously no official announcement yet, but the consensus here seems that it will have the Aston Martin 5.2T V12, so a derivative of your own engine, but yes, not NA.
Was the Rapide the 'final edition' of the NA V12 ?
Jon39 said:
Obviously no official announcement yet, but the consensus here seems that it will have the Aston Martin 5.2T V12, so a derivative of your own engine, but yes, not NA.
AdamV12V said:
Jon39 said:
Obviously no official announcement yet, but the consensus here seems that it will have the Aston Martin 5.2T V12, so a derivative of your own engine, but yes, not NA.
That’s one thing moved from the con to the pro column, but turbo… not for me. Having sampled a few engines, NA > SC >> turbo. Just don’t like the characteristics.
The points system sounds familiar to the one they claimed to use on vanquish zagato (but there will still plenty of flippers - remember the one sold by the finance company at BCA)- but if you buy and flip then presumably you could make the grade via the multiple purchases ?
I heard the price inc vat before extras was under £300k
I heard the price inc vat before extras was under £300k
BlackWidow13 said:
.... but turbo… not for me. Having sampled a few engines, NA > SC >> turbo. Just don’t like the characteristics.
I don't follow the intricacies of turbos, but I know about the power delay aspect, inevitable due to the way they work.
I noticed recently that some Mercedes cars have dealt with the lag aspect, by using electric power to fill in for the delay. The NA exhaust sound is of course spoilt by turbos, but with a limousine type saloon it is not important.
Shrimpvende said:
I'm always surprised when Aston roll out the whole 'special customers only' thing as if their products are as desirable as Porsche, Ferrari or even Rolex. This isn't a post to slag them off, I love the brand, but I'm not convinced they've ever truly sold out their special production runs.
I think I said similar on another thread in this section, but rumour has it they didn't sell all the One-77's and the leftovers went into making the Vulcan. They couldn't sell the last couple of Vulcans at list price, GT8, GT12, Zagato...none of them were instantly sold out in the way the Pista or GT3 were. That's reinforced by the secondhand values, GT8's are trading below list and Zagato's are way down - collecting cars only confirms this.
I really, really hope I'm proven wrong but I'm convinced I could order a Vantage V12 without too much trouble as I don't think the demand will really be there. This is reinforced by a recent dealer visit where discounts were mentioned on cars they had in stock without really even asking...it feels like they're back to being desperate to make a sale again. As I said previously, a stark contrast to Porsche who now have waiting lists even for a Macan!!
100%I think I said similar on another thread in this section, but rumour has it they didn't sell all the One-77's and the leftovers went into making the Vulcan. They couldn't sell the last couple of Vulcans at list price, GT8, GT12, Zagato...none of them were instantly sold out in the way the Pista or GT3 were. That's reinforced by the secondhand values, GT8's are trading below list and Zagato's are way down - collecting cars only confirms this.
I really, really hope I'm proven wrong but I'm convinced I could order a Vantage V12 without too much trouble as I don't think the demand will really be there. This is reinforced by a recent dealer visit where discounts were mentioned on cars they had in stock without really even asking...it feels like they're back to being desperate to make a sale again. As I said previously, a stark contrast to Porsche who now have waiting lists even for a Macan!!
AFAIK the only cars in the last 15 years that are making more than cost new are V12V Zags and One-77's. Neither of which sold out. I stand to be corrected.
Graze - You need to start thinking about colours etc.
I don’t think we should be giving AML too hard a time here. I think there is a distinct difference to what Aston are looking to do which seems to me to be more akin to Ferrari than Porsche and Rolex.
Porsche and Rolex dealers decide who to grant their allocation to. Porsche in particular have been criticised quite rightly for selling GT3s and beyond to the same old crowd and they even partake in the flipping. The turnover on ownership of nearly new GT models is astonishing! Alternatively if you want a new GT3 simply buy 3 or 4 mainstream cars and see your name rise to the top.
Ferrari on the other hand have a closer relationship with their end customer on the limited cars and there is little influence from the dealer. Although you could argue they take this too far.
I think we can expect AML to be a little more discerning still and in taking the decision process more centrally than dealer allocations for this limited car we are less likely to see flippers.
My view is they are not encouraging customers to buy a fleet of cars they don’t want just to be given the privilege (a la Porsche dealers), instead they would like to see these cars go to customers for whom this car would be a natural addition or progression, whether it reaches stratospheric critical acclaim or not.
Interestingly, existing V12V customers sit within this category. I for one would rather see this happen than see the cars being flipped should they reach critical acclaim, which is damaging to the brand and lines the wrong pockets.
It’s a new approach for Aston and I hope it works out well for all the right reasons and the cars go to ‘longtermers’ who will appreciate and enjoy them as intended.
Porsche and Rolex dealers decide who to grant their allocation to. Porsche in particular have been criticised quite rightly for selling GT3s and beyond to the same old crowd and they even partake in the flipping. The turnover on ownership of nearly new GT models is astonishing! Alternatively if you want a new GT3 simply buy 3 or 4 mainstream cars and see your name rise to the top.
Ferrari on the other hand have a closer relationship with their end customer on the limited cars and there is little influence from the dealer. Although you could argue they take this too far.
I think we can expect AML to be a little more discerning still and in taking the decision process more centrally than dealer allocations for this limited car we are less likely to see flippers.
My view is they are not encouraging customers to buy a fleet of cars they don’t want just to be given the privilege (a la Porsche dealers), instead they would like to see these cars go to customers for whom this car would be a natural addition or progression, whether it reaches stratospheric critical acclaim or not.
Interestingly, existing V12V customers sit within this category. I for one would rather see this happen than see the cars being flipped should they reach critical acclaim, which is damaging to the brand and lines the wrong pockets.
It’s a new approach for Aston and I hope it works out well for all the right reasons and the cars go to ‘longtermers’ who will appreciate and enjoy them as intended.
Djit said:
I don’t think we should be giving AML too hard a time here. I think there is a distinct difference to what Aston are looking to do which seems to me to be more akin to Ferrari than Porsche and Rolex.
Porsche and Rolex dealers decide who to grant their allocation to. Porsche in particular have been criticised quite rightly for selling GT3s and beyond to the same old crowd and they even partake in the flipping. The turnover on ownership of nearly new GT models is astonishing! Alternatively if you want a new GT3 simply buy 3 or 4 mainstream cars and see your name rise to the top.
Ferrari on the other hand have a closer relationship with their end customer on the limited cars and there is little influence from the dealer. Although you could argue they take this too far.
I think we can expect AML to be a little more discerning still and in taking the decision process more centrally than dealer allocations for this limited car we are less likely to see flippers.
My view is they are not encouraging customers to buy a fleet of cars they don’t want just to be given the privilege (a la Porsche dealers), instead they would like to see these cars go to customers for whom this car would be a natural addition or progression, whether it reaches stratospheric critical acclaim or not.
Interestingly, existing V12V customers sit within this category. I for one would rather see this happen than see the cars being flipped should they reach critical acclaim, which is damaging to the brand and lines the wrong pockets.
It’s a new approach for Aston and I hope it works out well for all the right reasons and the cars go to ‘longtermers’ who will appreciate and enjoy them as intended.
Why would you think that? My experience of AML marketing is that nothing seems to have been done centrally in the way of customer relationship building, something that (as I’ve said previously in the DBX thread) I genuinely feel has been to the detriment of the brand. Instead it’s all been dealer level and a bit lacklustre…Porsche and Rolex dealers decide who to grant their allocation to. Porsche in particular have been criticised quite rightly for selling GT3s and beyond to the same old crowd and they even partake in the flipping. The turnover on ownership of nearly new GT models is astonishing! Alternatively if you want a new GT3 simply buy 3 or 4 mainstream cars and see your name rise to the top.
Ferrari on the other hand have a closer relationship with their end customer on the limited cars and there is little influence from the dealer. Although you could argue they take this too far.
I think we can expect AML to be a little more discerning still and in taking the decision process more centrally than dealer allocations for this limited car we are less likely to see flippers.
My view is they are not encouraging customers to buy a fleet of cars they don’t want just to be given the privilege (a la Porsche dealers), instead they would like to see these cars go to customers for whom this car would be a natural addition or progression, whether it reaches stratospheric critical acclaim or not.
Interestingly, existing V12V customers sit within this category. I for one would rather see this happen than see the cars being flipped should they reach critical acclaim, which is damaging to the brand and lines the wrong pockets.
It’s a new approach for Aston and I hope it works out well for all the right reasons and the cars go to ‘longtermers’ who will appreciate and enjoy them as intended.
AIUI, there is considerable pressure in Ferrari circles to buy cars you may not want in order to avoid the risk of dropping down the list.
I think Aston are playing a risky game if they think that they’re ready to emulate Ferrari on this.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
Jon39 said:
Champs said:
I'm hoping they give it a proper interior treatment from the Speedster or Victor !
And do buyers want their interior to have the current Mercedes-Benz MBUX infotainment system, or continue with the previous generation version?
I understand why you prefer Vanquish Steve, but I expect you know what I was really asking.
The (new) Vantage at present does not have the latest Mercedes-Benz MBUX infotainment version (for a modern system it is quite admired), but the previous M-B version.
Don’t get the whole flipping flipper concern. Wouldn’t bother, myself, even if I had the excess $$$ to play that game, but if others want to, that’s the free market mentality for you.
I don’t know why a manufacturer or dealer should be expected to judge if one person’s money is more or less worthy than the next. AM and the dealers need to financially sell all the rare models they can to balance the “normal” models. If that means a temporary shark frenzy, so be it.
The cars simply return to the market. Those who missed out may have to wait 6-12 months for prices to normalise. But with Astons, that usually means a reduction on list.
Mind, I am never really tempted by new cars…
I don’t know why a manufacturer or dealer should be expected to judge if one person’s money is more or less worthy than the next. AM and the dealers need to financially sell all the rare models they can to balance the “normal” models. If that means a temporary shark frenzy, so be it.
The cars simply return to the market. Those who missed out may have to wait 6-12 months for prices to normalise. But with Astons, that usually means a reduction on list.
Mind, I am never really tempted by new cars…
Djit said:
I think that’s the point. Perhaps they recognise what you are saying and maybe that’s why they are getting more involved centrally.
Hopefully, but can’t help thinking that if you were going to do that then you’d get the engagement side of things sorted as the first stepGT3ZZZ said:
Dealers are to put forward their desired customers to Gaydon and make their case.
Shame if that’s the case. Aside from thinking that it’s the wrong way to do it for reasons already mentioned, the “make their case” element it relies (as dealers will probably like) on dealer loyalty/history rather than brand loyalty/history. GT3ZZZ said:
300 units worldwide so maybe 50-60 for the UK?
DBS S 5.2L V12 TT engine
Dealers are to put forward their desired customers to Gaydon and make their case.
DBS S 5.2L V12 TT engine
Dealers are to put forward their desired customers to Gaydon and make their case.
Prior to the official announcement, even with reported dealer comments we don't know, but GT3ZZZ suggests a 300 car Limited Edition, whereas an earlier post said this is not going to be a limited number run.
Choosing a number at the outset, has in the past often been a vague attempt at guessing demand, so it will be interesting to see whether this model becomes a Limited Edition or a Special Edition. AML finally admitted that they were disappointed, that the new Vantage did not meet their sales expectations (PHers decided why), so perhaps they will take a cautious approach. The pre-announcement demand might help their decision.
Jon39 said:
Prior to the official announcement, even with reported dealer comments we don't know, but GT3ZZZ suggests a 300 car Limited Edition, whereas an earlier post said this is not going to be a limited number run.
Choosing a number at the outset, has in the past often been a vague attempt at guessing demand, so it will be interesting to see whether this model becomes a Limited Edition or a Special Edition. AML finally admitted that they were disappointed, that the new Vantage did not meet their sales expectations (PHers decided why), so perhaps they will take a cautious approach. The pre-announcement demand might help their decision.
Nice marketing ring 300 at 300 plus if successful a cool £90m in the coffers.
Edited by oilit on Monday 29th November 10:02
oilit said:
Jon39 said:
Prior to the official announcement, even with reported dealer comments we don't know, but GT3ZZZ suggests a 300 car Limited Edition, whereas an earlier post said this is not going to be a limited number run.
Choosing a number at the outset, has in the past often been a vague attempt at guessing demand, so it will be interesting to see whether this model becomes a Limited Edition or a Special Edition. AML finally admitted that they were disappointed, that the new Vantage did not meet their sales expectations (PHers decided why), so perhaps they will take a cautious approach. The pre-announcement demand might help their decision.
Nice marketing ring 300 at 300 plus if successful a cool £90m in the coffers.
Edited by oilit on Monday 29th November 10:02
Let’s hope AM sell them all and the demand is there.
Have any U.K. based posters on here ordered one?
If so, are you able to confirm the number of units and the price, or is that prohibited under the AM disclosure rules?
Best Regards
Minglar
Minglar said:
I think it’s 299 units, priced at £265,000 without options in the U.K. I’m sure someone posted that in one of the AM Facebook groups towards the end of September, and I think I posted it in the other thread that was running on here at the time.
Let’s hope AM sell them all and the demand is there.
Have any U.K. based posters on here ordered one?
If so, are you able to confirm the number of units and the price, or is that prohibited under the AM disclosure rules?
I have not ordered one, as I said "thanks, but no thanks" when called by my dealer offering me one a couple of weeks ago, but I can confirm that I was told that it is 299 units and £265k + options (inc VAT) in the UK. Likely to be around £300k (inc VAT) fully specced up of course.Let’s hope AM sell them all and the demand is there.
Have any U.K. based posters on here ordered one?
If so, are you able to confirm the number of units and the price, or is that prohibited under the AM disclosure rules?
I am aware of one UK person who has said they have a deposit down on one of the whatsapp groups I am a member of.
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