V12 vantage official

[cayman-black]

I think then that this Aston has to be better and more engaging than the DBSS which seems to be its biggest rival.

Now if it had a manual gearbox this would make a big difference between the two.

[Champs]

Definitely needs a manual gearbox ! Sadly this will not be an option.
AM should have made an unlimited run of V12 Vantages with the DBS gearbox, then offered this final edition V12 RS, with a limited on builds, in a manual, and charged extra !
This way development costs could be amortized over a bigger volume of V12's, and the manual RS version would be the cream !
Just what I would have done

[AdamV12V]

A manual box would indeed have made it a hugely more attractive proposition, but they don't have one in their arsenal already that suitable for the power on tap, and I'm not sure where they would source one from either?

Maybe if the auto proves to be successful and sells out, then maybe somehow they will source or engineer one? I can't see either of these happening, but I would love to be proven wrong.

[Agent57]

I remember when Dell announced they were no longer going to supply floppy disc drives with their PCs. Ooh I wasn't happy at the time.

[oilit]

Agent57 said:

I remember when Dell announced they were no longer going to supply floppy disc drives with their PCs. Ooh I wasn't happy at the time.

Ha ha - and the parallel port and serial port ?

[Jon39]

AdamV12V said:

.... As somebody who owns a V12VSM and an AMR Rapide, the new V12V RS offers me nothing really that either of the other two cars don't already offer a whole lot more of.

There is no way Id swap the V12VSM analogue manual na experience for something which is going to be a lot less analogue due to an automatic gearbox and TT engine. So less noise oh and worse infortainment and less good looking. Even if it was faster and more comfortable, neither of these attributes are what I want in my primary driving machine.

And when you consider that even I traded both cars in I would probably still have to find a little bit more cash still for a new V12V RS, then its just nonsense really.

Used - well a GT12, now at similar money to the RS this also offers far far more. Again the better na V12, sounds and looks far far better, SSIII gearbox (far preferable to an automatic in this kind of car), jaw dropping wild aero and probably a safer place to park £300k if depreciation concerns come into it. .....

I agree with all that you have said Adam.

Thinking aloud;

- It is clear that many of the regulars here are in love with their VH era Aston Martins and have not been tempted by the current models.
- Those with a V12V probably see it as madness, to pay about £200,000 then part with their car, in exchange for a turbocharged automatic, with 'new' Vantage origins.

- Mr Stroll might envisage the 'new younger customers' (or was that only AP?) for this car, even though supposedly, existing customers have priority.
- LS is always keen to tell us about the Aston Martin marketing to the huge F1 audience (he mentions billions - but that must be counting the audience for one race, then multiplying by the number of races). Perhaps those are the customers AML are expecting for this quarter of a million Pounds car.

[Champs]

AdamV12V said:

A manual box would indeed have made it a hugely more attractive proposition, but they don't have one in their arsenal already that suitable for the power on tap, and I'm not sure where they would source one from either?

Maybe if the auto proves to be successful and sells out, then maybe somehow they will source or engineer one? I can't see either of these happening, but I would love to be proven wrong.

Is the 6 speed in the victor totally unusable Adam?

[LordBretSinclair]

AdamV12V said:

A manual box would indeed have made it a hugely more attractive proposition, but they don't have one in their arsenal already that suitable for the power on tap, and I'm not sure where they would source one from either?

Maybe if the auto proves to be successful and sells out, then maybe somehow they will source or engineer one? I can't see either of these happening, but I would love to be proven wrong.

So would the manual be the final final edition????
AM have past history in producing "last" V12 Vantage editions

[Beckson]

I don't understand why they would make "one version" of the new V12 Vantage. It seem once they develop the v12V multiple versions could be made with little extra R&D

I'd have guessed:

"normal" V12 Vantage coupe - auto only

normal V12 Vantage roadster - auto only

RS Version Coupe- auto only - more similar to GT12 or a gt3 etc

RS version roadster - more expensive - think Ferrari 16m etc.

"Final" Version coupe + roadster - manual option - "very" expensive.

Zagato coupe + barchetta - maybe a manual option "very very" expensive.

[Champs]

LordBretSinclair said:

So would the manual be the final final edition????
AM have past history in producing "last" V12 Vantage editions

I have wondered the same Sir !
They would have some really pis..ed cutomers if they did this !
How many meanings does final have for crying out loud ?
Sincerely hope they know this !

[Greg_D]

what always confuses me with all of this is why the manufacturers don't simply say, "best and final offers and the top bidders get the cars"

that way, they maximise their earnings and if you REALLY want one, just bid high...

[Champs]

Has anyone else here read the wording on the exclusive Gaydon viewing invite ?
It clearly says : The v12 Vantage will mark the end of an Era, it won't just be a limited edition, it will be a final edition.
I've typed it exactly as it stands !
So Heaven help us if we can't trust this wording !

[Jon39]

Champs said:

.... 'The v12 Vantage will mark the end of an Era, it won't just be a limited edition, it will be a final edition.' ....

Previously it might not have been in writing, but;
V12V Coupe buyers thought there would only be 1000 cars, then 200 more were built for the USA.
V12VR buyers thought that model was the last V12 Vantage Roadster, then later the V12VSR was announced.
Valkyrie buyers might have thought theirs would be the only road version of the Valkyrie, then the Spyder appeared.

If anyone wants to be cynical?
Is it just the final edition of V12V Coupe Auto ?
Leaving future scope for Roadster and Manual models.

[Champs]

Jon39 said:

Champs said:

.... 'The v12 Vantage will mark the end of an Era, it won't just be a limited edition, it will be a final edition.' ....

Previously it might not have been in writing, but;
V12V Coupe buyers thought there would only be 1000 cars, then 200 more were built for the USA.
V12VR buyers thought that model was the last V12 Vantage Roadster, then later the V12VSR was announced.
Valkyrie buyers might have thought theirs would be the only road version of the Valkyrie, then the Spyder appeared.

If anyone wants to be cynical?
Is it just the final edition of V12V Coupe Auto ?
Leaving future scope for Roadster and Manual models.

I'm just as unsure Jon ! Never know how marketing sharks operate!
At the same time, AM have said they are moving towards an electric future at around 2025 and back in 2018 when manual AMR coupe was announced I for one thought there would be a manual AMR Roadster ?
So it looks to me like the past may not be a map for the future ?
I'm totally unsure right now !

[LooneyTunes]

Jon39 said:

Champs said:

.... 'The v12 Vantage will mark the end of an Era, it won't just be a limited edition, it will be a final edition.' ....

Previously it might not have been in writing, but;
V12V Coupe buyers thought there would only be 1000 cars, then 200 more were built for the USA.
V12VR buyers thought that model was the last V12 Vantage Roadster, then later the V12VSR was announced.
Valkyrie buyers might have thought theirs would be the only road version of the Valkyrie, then the Spyder appeared.

If anyone wants to be cynical?
Is it just the final edition of V12V Coupe Auto ?
Leaving future scope for Roadster and Manual models.

Even where it's written above it is a final edition not the final edition. One hopes it is intended to be one and the same.

Importantly, a change in ownership/management usually presents an opportunity for slates to be wiped clean (to a degree!) but with near-term decisions scrutinised. Bearing in mind the desire to sell these to current owners, if current management then try to wriggle on linguistic nuances, I suspect the loss of trust is likely to be significant and long-lived...

Will be intrigued to see what those invited along think of the car.

[AMVSVNick]

LooneyTunes said:

I suspect the loss of trust is likely to be significant and long-lived...

McLaren didn’t seem to care. Let’s hope AML are different

[Shrimpvende]

Couple of things after reading various comments,

I'm surprised they're only doing the V12 now. 'All that engineering work' isn't actually all that much. The Vantage and DB11 chassis aren't wildly different, the DB11 is available in both V8 and V12 so both engines clearly fit - it's not unlikely that the mounting points are similar and they're not going to design and manufacture 2 completely different DB11 front ends to have one for each engine.

Secondly, the 'ultimate' Vantage would no doubt be the Merc hot vee wound up. Jon's right, it's comfortably in the 700bhp+ range in some Merc applications (it's a phenomenal engine, regardless of the argument of whether it belongs in an AM or not). The only issue with that is a) treading on the toes of Mercedes halo products (why do you think the Vantage power output is where it is when a simple remap takes it over 600bhp) and b) purists want V12's.

That's why Aston had to develop their own engine, even though the Merc unit in the right state of tune can be over and above what's in the DBSS. I don't think they would get away with their halo car being either a V8 or a Mercedes engine, and I'm sure Mercedes wouldn't allow the 'full beans' version to go into an AM product rather than one of theirs.

FWIW, I'd prefer a wound up Mercedes V8 in a halo Vantage than the V12, it's just a better engine. The fact that it wasn't developed by AML doesn't bother me, it's the best tool for the job.

[cayman-black]

Thats how Pagani think also!

[AdamV12V]

I have no idea where any of you think a manual gearbox capable of handling 700+bhp and 850-900nm of torque is coming from?

The "best" manual gearbox Aston have cannot even handle the 685Nm of torque in the AMG V8, so we are not even batting in the same division as what the 5.2 V12TT can produce.

Can anyone name ANY manual gearbox in any vaguely mainstream car capable of handling these figures?

Sadly I suspect there will be no manual V12VTT RS....

Edited by AdamV12V on Tuesday 30th November 21:30

[ITP]

Zonda mated a powerful Mercedes motor to a manual gearbox.
Just watched a ‘car guys’ video of a Koenigsegg CCX, that’s manual and has 1018bhp.

Not sure why a special 300k Aston would need a manual gearbox from a mainstream car?

Wether a manual box in a car that powerful would be easy to drive is another question, it would be fun trying though!