Man After My Own Heart ... The Future Isn't Electric

[Pixelpeep 135]

DAMIT said:

Pixelpeep 135 said:

Other half did 2800 miles in march

Cost us £89.60 ish in electric

Your cost per mile is very good going.


As an owner of an EV for the last three years my average has been around 38kw per 100 mile.
Or at 2.63miles per kw from a current Rapid public charger (yesterday) at 50p per kw (They now charge 20% vat) means my EV would have cost me £532.32 to cover those 2800 miles!

Even if I charged it at home it would have cost me 30p per kw total of £320

From all the EV road test I have read my car is very much in line with their findings on range.

Averaging 4.5miles per KW based on the last 7000 ish miles (when we reset it) and pay 19p per KW at home (00:00-7am)

[Oilchange]

Cake and eat it for me would be running an Aston as a commuting car and not caring about cost but hey, each to their own

[Jon39]

We have now learnt about another aspect concerning electric cars, which might not suit Aston Martin custodians.
If my Vantage asks for a drink, I oblige and concentrate on carefully holding the filler nozzle. After the full click, I replace the fuel hose. How much it costs, will show up later on a statement. If the price goes up, then so will Shell and BP, so it is all balanced anyway.

If I had an electric car, it now appears that I would need to be obsessed with kWh, off peak unit costs, price per mile and goodness knows what else. Knowing the running costs must be adhered to, so that others can be told that owning an EV is only marginally more expensive than a bicycle.

[DAMIT]

Jon39 said:

We have now learnt about another aspect concerning electric cars, which might not suit Aston Martin custodians.
If my Vantage asks for a drink, I oblige and concentrate on carefully holding the filler nozzle. After the full click, I replace the fuel hose. How much it costs, will show up later on a statement. If the price goes up, then so will Shell and BP, so it is all balanced anyway.

If I had an electric car, it now appears that I would need to be obsessed with kWh, off peak unit costs, price per mile and goodness knows what else. Knowing the running costs must be adhered to, so that others can be told that owning an EV is only marginally more expensive than a bicycle.

The point I was trying to make was that the EV is NOT cheap to run! Their energy consumption is way higher than you expect especially on motorways and in cold tempertures. The range is usually less than 50% than stated and charging on public chargers, if you can get one that works/ not being used, is SOO Slow. (last time out 17 miles/ 6.2kw added in 15 mins, when it just stopped charging) on a so called latest rapid charger supposed to charge at 100+kw.

[BiggaJ]

DAMIT said:

The point I was trying to make was that the EV is NOT cheap to run! Their energy consumption is way higher than you expect especially on motorways and in cold tempertures. The range is usually less than 50% than stated and charging on public chargers, if you can get one that works/ not being used, is SOO Slow. (last time out 17 miles/ 6.2kw added in 15 mins, when it just stopped charging) on a so called latest rapid charger supposed to charge at 100+kw.

I can't claim to know about all electric/petrol hybrids however, in my petrol hybrid and running it in the UK where the average temp must be say 12 Deg C taking into account all seasons of the year. My electric range goes from a max of 32 miles in very warm conditions to approx. 17 miles in winter. I don't get that range of course as it typically falls short every time but those numbers are what is typically quoted after a full charge on a 3 pin home wall charger.

It has the ability to rapid charge if I can be bothered to plug it in but in three years of ownership I've never plugged it in anywhere other than home.

I know this will be different for full electrics however, Richard on YouTube that runs the channel CTR (challenge the road) has just done a video comparing his previous full electric Q5 to his now Hybrid Q5 .... Hybrid wins in his evaluation. Worth a watch if interested.

Edited by BiggaJ on Wednesday 20th April 20:05

[Evanivitch]

Jon39 said:

We have now learnt about another aspect concerning electric cars, which might not suit Aston Martin custodians.
If my Vantage asks for a drink, I oblige and concentrate on carefully holding the filler nozzle. After the full click, I replace the fuel hose. How much it costs, will show up later on a statement. If the price goes up, then so will Shell and BP, so it is all balanced anyway.

If I had an electric car, it now appears that I would need to be obsessed with kWh, off peak unit costs, price per mile and goodness knows what else. Knowing the running costs must be adhered to, so that others can be told that owning an EV is only marginally more expensive than a bicycle.

I'm assuming you exclusively fill the car at motorway service stations and Shell V-Power forecourts?

[Jon39]

DAMIT said:

Jon39 said:

We have now learnt about another aspect concerning electric cars, which might not suit Aston Martin custodians.
If my Vantage asks for a drink, I oblige and concentrate on carefully holding the filler nozzle. After the full click, I replace the fuel hose. How much it costs, will show up later on a statement. If the price goes up, then so will Shell and BP, so it is all balanced anyway.

If I had an electric car, it now appears that I would need to be obsessed with kWh, off peak unit costs, price per mile and goodness knows what else. Knowing the running costs must be adhered to, so that others can be told that owning an EV is only marginally more expensive than a bicycle.

The point I was trying to make was that the EV is NOT cheap to run! Their energy consumption is way higher than you expect especially on motorways and in cold tempertures. The range is usually less than 50% than stated and charging on public chargers, if you can get one that works/ not being used, is SOO Slow. (last time out 17 miles/ 6.2kw added in 15 mins, when it just stopped charging) on a so called latest rapid charger supposed to charge at 100+kw.

Thank you Dave,

My post was a tongue in cheek dig at the earlier emphasis on cheap electric fueling. The lifetime overall ownership cost being noticeable by its absence. For a £25,000 car with and additional £10,000 battery pack, recouping the initial cost through lower fueling cost, presumably requires a high mileage.

I suppose also, the average life of battery packs (effectively the car) has yet to be determined, but might well be shorter than an IC car.
Another aspect to consider to calculate overall ownership cost.

We love our Aston Martin's so much, that debating running costs on this forum, might never have happened before!

Like your Profile Cadwell Park photo. What was the occasion?

[Jon39]

Evanivitch said:

I'm assuming you exclusively fill the car at motorway service stations and Shell V-Power forecourts?

I sense a humorous trap here, but I will take the bait.

I draw the line at motorway service stations, but always try to use an ESSO fuel called Synergy Supreme+.
Reason - does not contain any ethanol. Don't know the petrol price, but with Brent Crude at $107 today, it must be quite high, especially as most of the cost is fuel duty with cheekily VAT as well, creating perhaps uniquely, a tax charged on a tax. As they say, you couldn't make it up.

[Evanivitch]

Jon39 said:

Reason - does not contain any ethanol.

Petrol is petrol, right?

[Octavarium]

Evanivitch said:

Jon39 said:

Reason - does not contain any ethanol.

Petrol is petrol, right?

Indeed it is. But, petrol with ethanol is petrol with an unwanted additive that makes our Aston (and AMG) engines less efficient and affects performance. I too use Esso Synergy Supreme + and fortunately where I live it is ethanol free. My understanding is that this benefit is only available to Esso customers in certain parts of the UK, and if you live in the South West, North Wales and Scotland then the pumps contain up to 5% ethanol.

Edited by Octavarium on Thursday 21st April 08:35

Edited by Octavarium on Thursday 21st April 08:36

[Evanivitch]

Octavarium said:

Evanivitch said:

Jon39 said:

Reason - does not contain any ethanol.

Petrol is petrol, right?

Indeed it is. But, petrol with ethanol is petrol with an unwanted additive that makes our Aston (and AMG) engines less efficient and affects performance. I too use Esso Synergy Supreme + and fortunately where I live it is ethanol free. My understanding is that this benefit is only available to Esso customers in certain parts of the UK, and if you live in the South West, North Wales and Scotland then the pumps contain up to 5% ethanol.

Edited by Octavarium on Thursday 21st April 08:35

Edited by Octavarium on Thursday 21st April 08:36

Sounds like you're both perfect candidates for EV ownership.

Jon39 said:

If I had an electric car, it now appears that I would need to be obsessed with kWh, off peak unit costs, price per mile and goodness knows what else. Knowing the running costs must be adhered to, so that others can be told that owning an EV is only marginally more expensive than a bicycle.

[Pixelpeep 135]

DAMIT said:

The point I was trying to make was that the EV is NOT cheap to run! Their energy consumption is way higher than you expect especially on motorways and in cold tempertures. The range is usually less than 50% than stated.

I'm not sure what experience you are drawing on, but my 5 years & 100k+ miles in two different EVs has been vastly different.

worst, and i mean the absolute worst i've managed - i did a 2 week, 100 mile a day intentional stress test during December 2020 i couldn't get our e-niro to lose more than 30% range. Driving like i stole it, with all the heating on etc.

as a comparison, my F40 m135i will give me 430 miles on a tank if i take care, if i drive it the same way i drove our e-niro id get around 220 to a tank.

and as for 'not cheap to run' ?! - even with electricity costs as they currently are we don't pay more than 4 pence per mile. How is that not cheap?

[ds666]

Jon39 said:

Evanivitch said:

I draw the line at motorway service stations, but always try to use an ESSO fuel called Synergy Supreme+.
Reason - does not contain any ethanol.

Jon - that's not always correct I'm afraid - massive thread on this elsewhere - only zero if it has been supplied from very specific refineries

[dbs2000]

Pixelpeep 135 said:

I'm not sure what experience you are drawing on, but my 5 years & 100k+ miles in two different EVs has been vastly different.

worst, and i mean the absolute worst i've managed - i did a 2 week, 100 mile a day intentional stress test during December 2020 i couldn't get our e-niro to lose more than 30% range. Driving like i stole it, with all the heating on etc.

as a comparison, my F40 m135i will give me 430 miles on a tank if i take care, if i drive it the same way i drove our e-niro id get around 220 to a tank.

and as for 'not cheap to run' ?! - even with electricity costs as they currently are we don't pay more than 4 pence per mile. How is that not cheap?

Indeed, 50,000km in on the Model 3 and its averaging 169wh/km ~ 8540kw * 0.23 = 1943 euros. Converted to the queens, 1623. That is cheap cheap cheap. I'm not going to work the same out for the DBS but I guess I could almost add a zero and far more enjoyment

[Jon39]

Pixelpeep 135 said:

... as for 'not cheap to run' ?! -
we don't pay more than 4 pence per mile.
How is that not cheap?

We have never had a discussion here before, about who is the Cheapest Cheapskate.
However it might be a novel form of amusement, while we wait for Aston Martin to unveil their next new exciting model.

My chauffer has told me, that depreciation is normally the largest running cost, so must be included, because fuel only cost is meaningless.

Let the Cheapskate Championship Contest begin.
I will start the game by playing this hand;

4 door mid-size hatchback.
Purchase cost ...................... = £600.
Ownership ............................ = 18 years (still in use - now semi-retired as a garden rubbish car)
Mileage since purchase ....... = 70,000 miles
Current value ........................ = £500.

I don't know the fuel etc. costs (no mechanical failures, two sets of tyres), but let's see if any other cheapskate players can better this.

My depreciation cost.
£5-56 per year.
1.43 pence per mile.


I think you said your Electric Vehicle costs £350 each month. Is that the best hand you can play in this game?
Depreciation cost.
£4,200 per year !



Current Cheapskate Championship Table.
1st place .... Jon39 ........................ £5-56.
2nd place ....Pixelpeep 135 .... £4,200-00.


Next player please play your hand.

Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 21st April 11:44

[Pixelpeep 135]

Jon39 said:

Pixelpeep 135 said:

... as for 'not cheap to run' ?! -
we don't pay more than 4 pence per mile.
How is that not cheap?

We have never had a discussion here before, about who is the Cheapest Cheapskate.
However it might be a novel form of amusement, while we wait for Aston Martin to unveil their next new exciting model.

My chauffer has told me, that depreciation is normally the largest running cost, so must be included, because fuel only cost is meaningless.

Let the Cheapskate Championship Contest begin.
I will start the game by playing this hand;

4 door mid-size hatchback.
Purchase cost ...................... = £600.
Ownership ............................ = 18 years (still in use - now semi-retired as a garden rubbish car)
Mileage since purchase ....... = 70,000 miles
Current value ........................ = £500.

I don't know the fuel etc. costs (no mechanical failures, two sets of tyres), but let's see if any other cheapskate players can better this.

My depreciation cost.
£5-56 per year.
1.43 pence per mile.


I think you said your Electric Vehicle costs £350 each month. Is that the best hand you can play in this game?
Depreciation cost.
£4,200 per year !



Current Cheapskate Championship Table.
1st place .... Jon39 ........................ £5-56.
2nd place ....Pixelpeep 135 .... £4,200-00.


Next player please play your hand.

Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 21st April 11:44

maybe it's just me, but your reply feels somewhat obtuse.

you are comparing running a £600 shed to running a brand new EV.?

you've covered just 70k miles in 18 years? we are doing 32,000 miles a year!

Shock horror your usage is cheaper than mine, because you would have done 552,080 less miles over the term.

based on a very generous 35mpg for your shed, doing the same miles as us would cost you around £129,200

I'm done now. You can lead a horse to water and all that

Enjoy your Aston & shed

[Evanivitch]

Pixelpeep 135 said:

maybe it's just me, but your reply feels somewhat obtuse.

you are comparing running a £600 shed to running a brand new EV.?

Not to mention only 2 tyres in 18 years. It's a death trap.

[Jon39]

Pixelpeep 135 said:

Enjoy your Aston & shed

Thank you. I also enjoy several other cars in my fleet, not only the 'work of art' and 'workhorse'.
No EVs in my collection yet though.
My contribution to green causes is through modest mileage. IC cars are of course as 'green' as EVs, when resting.

Interestingly for that reason, the 4.7 V8 Aston Martin is the biggest engine car I own, but probably the least polluting during each year.
Expect it pollutes the world less than your (greater mileage) EV, especially for the people who live down wind from the power stations generating your 'fuel'.

Please let me know as soon as your battery packs reach the end of car use life. I have a project to use the remaining energy storage capabilities.

[Jon39]

Evanivitch said:

Not to mention only 2 sets of tyres in 18 years. It's a death trap.

Yes, I have noticed that tyre manufacturers advise changing tyres (is it) every 3 years.
Wonder why?

The usable safe life (if not abused by misusing road humps for example), is greater than that, but for performance cars I do chuck the tyres based on age, still with tread remaining.

[Evanivitch]

Jon39 said:

Yes, I have noticed that tyre manufacturers advise changing tyres (is it) every 3 years.
Wonder why?

The usable safe life (if not abused by misusing road humps for example), is greater than that, but for performance cars I do chuck the tyres based on age, still with tread remaining.

Rubber degrades when exposed to UV, oxidation and heat cycles.