Manifold Assembly Exhaust (LH/RH) DBS 2010

[Jon39]

Scottsanders said:

That was something else that wasn't clear, as they decided to film it without sound :/ They may just have been banging the exhaust from underneath, as on further inspection, it doesn't seem to be a rhythmic movement of the debris

I'll try to upload them, and send a link

Thanks.

I have to rely on logic rather than any engineering experience, but I cannot think that an endoscope could be used with an engine running.

Trying to think about how the endoscope could have been inserted. Maybe in through a spark plug hole, but then it would need an exhaust valve to be open, to reach the manifold catalyst.
Does anyone know how it is done ?

They must be nearly ready to do some keyhole surgery work, after doing that. -

[V12Virage]

The primary catalysts (front and back sides) can be scoped through the O2 sensor holes.

[Scottsanders]

UPDATE: So AM have viewed the honeycomb through the O2 sensor holes, and whilst they can't see any evidence of any damage *at this point* they think that the primary CAT's are beginning to fail, and this is why there is powder evident near the end of the exhaust.

So in short, they are saying that they could fail at any time, so in order to avoid any engine damage, I should replace them now.

Does anyone have any idea how much you can buy the OEM manifold exhausts for in the UK? It may be cheaper for me to buy them and ship them here.

Thanks in advance!

Scott

[Phuketpaul]

The primary cats would fail at the top first, so I'd have thought it unlikely that the powder would travel through the Primary cats and the secondary cats.

I would get the primaries checked with a borescope before doing anything else.

[Scottsanders]

I've asked them to open up the O2 sensors again, and provide videos of all 4 primary cats, so I'll see what they come back with.

The fact that they are now saying that they didn't see any damage when they opened them up before, tells me that maybe this is a case of them planting evidence in the end of the exhaust, in the hope that I'll get scared and approve the job!

The service industry in the UAE is *very* different to other parts of the world, as there are a lot of people that just pay up for whatever the garage is suggesting, without really demanding evidence of the issue!

Let's see - I'll post some images from the videos when they send them through

TIA

Scott

[Felonious]

Scottsanders said:

Does anyone have any idea how much you can buy the OEM manifold exhausts for in the UK? It may be cheaper for me to buy them and ship them here.

Call Bamford Rose before your lunchtime (best chance you'll get a reply) and see if they have any customer manifolds kicking around that they / the customer wants to sell. After they replaced mine I kept them but I'm sure many don't bother so would be surprised if BR doesn't have some somewhere or know where they could get their hands on them.

They may also know someone in Dubai that could fit their parts but in general they're not overly trusting of other people's abilities.

[Caslad]

Scottsanders said:

UPDATE: So AM have viewed the honeycomb through the O2 sensor holes, and whilst they can't see any evidence of any damage *at this point* they think that the primary CAT's are beginning to fail, and this is why there is powder evident near the end of the exhaust.

So in short, they are saying that they could fail at any time, so in order to avoid any engine damage, I should replace them now.

Does anyone have any idea how much you can buy the OEM manifold exhausts for in the UK? It may be cheaper for me to buy them and ship them here.

Thanks in advance!

Scott

£6300 approx including vat from astonmartinbits.com

[Caslad]

It all sounds a bit odd to me. Forgive me if I have the wrong end of the stick but it seems they’ve found catalyst debris distal to the secondary cats but no evidence of damage to the primary cats yet their conclusion is that the primary cats have failed & the debris has found its way all the way through past secondary cats.
I’d have thought it more likely to be the secondary cats which have failed yet they haven’t looked at them.

[LTP]

Caslad said:

It all sounds a bit odd to me. Forgive me if I have the wrong end of the stick but it seems they’ve found catalyst debris distal to the secondary cats but no evidence of damage to the primary cats yet their conclusion is that the primary cats have failed & the debris has found its way all the way through past secondary cats.
I’d have thought it more likely to be the secondary cats which have failed yet they haven’t looked at them.

I'd second that confusion. From viewing the Aston1936 video where he 'scoped the top surface of his primary cats and shared the videos with Mike of BR, from memory you could see the top surface of the catalyst honeycomb wasn't flat and Mike identified areas where there had been some erosion, but not enough to cause worry. I thought that failure from misfires eroded the catalyst top surface due to unburnt fuel igniting on the hot catalyst. Unless there is a secondary cat failure mode, in which case the obvious answer is to fit secondary decat pipes, which appears to be an approved modification.

[Scottsanders]

Thanks for the advice, Felonious - I'll give BR a call and see what they have.

[Scottsanders]

Caslad & LTP - I completely agree it sounds odd! I called and spoke to the technician who sent the videos, and he admitted that the debris which was visible in the videos was near the end of the exhaust, and when I asked him if he had viewed the primary CATs with a borescope, he hesitated, and then said yes they had done this, but hadn't seen any evidence of damage!

I have asked him to open up the o2 sensors again, and provide videos of all four primary CATs so I should be able to share what they find soon. I definitely think they are trying to scare me into replacing the exhaust manifolds, as they charge around 5000 GBP per exhaust out here, so will be a nice increase in revenue for the annual service!

Let's see though.

Thanks,

Scott

[LTP]

Caslad said:

...distal...

Medic?

[Caslad]

LTP said:

Caslad said:

...distal...

Medic?

You got me!
You too?

[LTP]

Caslad said:

You got me!
You too?

No. Engineer. But I spotted the word and thought "That's odd for colloquial vocabulary" especially as I'd heard/seen the word but wasn't 100% confident in its meaning (age creeping up, methinks). Google then provided that it was used in both anatomy and geology, but context indicated anatomy. So I took a stab.

[Caslad]

LTP said:

No. Engineer. But I spotted the word and thought "That's odd for colloquial vocabulary" especially as I'd heard/seen the word but wasn't 100% confident in its meaning (age creeping up, methinks). Google then provided that it was used in both anatomy and geology, but context indicated anatomy. So I took a stab.

Ah, I see. I don’t want to derail the thread but I couldn’t think of a more suitable adjective so I’d be interested to know the terms an engineer would use.

[LTP]

Caslad said:

Ah, I see. I don’t want to derail the thread but I couldn’t think of a more suitable adjective so I’d be interested to know the terms an engineer would use.

Agree with the "No derail" in deference to OP, but, as you asked and considering I'm not a powertrain engineer plus the definition of an engineer is often "a man with a selection of hammers", I'd probably go for something like "exit", "outlet" or "tailpipe end" or possibly "arse end". You could even say "downstream of the secondary catalyst". I wouldn't use "exhaust" (as in the opposite of "inlet") because of the obvious potential for confusion and the internet insults that would follow. .
I think we can apologise to OP now and let him have his thread back. Sorry Scott.

Edited by LTP on Wednesday 29th March 18:52

[Caslad]

Thanks LTP.
Sorry Scott, hope you’re making some progress.

[Scottsanders]

[Scottsanders]

[Scottsanders]