Db11 replacement
Discussion
Jon39 said:
I would be very surprised if M-B allowed their latest dashboard tech to be used.
They seem very proud if it, because most unusually, they have publicly unveiled the interior, but not yet the car.
Optional cinema for passenger (who perhaps refuses to converse.)
Three iPads and a bit of perspex - the shape of things to come...They seem very proud if it, because most unusually, they have publicly unveiled the interior, but not yet the car.
Optional cinema for passenger (who perhaps refuses to converse.)
GT3ZZZ said:
The V12 is finished. The DBS 770 Ultimate is the last one.
V8 or smaller going forward, same as Bentley.
If this is true, how sad for AML, effectively the end of AML in-house engine design and development. That’s really crossing the rubicon. A point from which there is usually no return. V8 or smaller going forward, same as Bentley.
The original V12 started as a peak 420hp and finished with peak at the best part of 600. A near 50% increase in the maximum developed - with the limitations of natural aspiration. If the turbo 4.0 AMG lump is able to deliver a fully homologated 200hp per litre, there’s no reason that Astons V12 couldn’t achieve 1000hp.
What a sad state of affairs. At 600 to 700odd hp, Astons very own mighty twin turbo V12 had, in the words of the Carpenters, only just begun.
GT3ZZZ said:
The V12 is finished. The DBS 770 Ultimate is the last one.
V8 or smaller going forward, same as Bentley.
V8 or smaller going forward, same as Bentley.
If AML continue their M-B relationship, Mercedes and AMG now seem very keen on 4 cylinder engines.
The world's most powerful four-cylinder engine in series production.
Capacity, 2 litres. Power produced, 421 bhp.
210 bhp per litre. How long will that last ?
I remember a Volkswagen engine that was both turbocharged and supercharged.
It soon disappeared from their range, after guess what.
Edited by Jon39 on Monday 27th March 17:51
Rapid rental said:
I hope you are wrong, its just ghastly.
Can we even buy a new car now, without having a screen?
This trend seems to have been forced on us.
I think Dacia have a clever piece of marketing, which must save them money.
You already have a smartphone. Just stick your phone on the Dacia dashboard and it will connect to your car.
GT3ZZZ said:
Calinours said:
If this is true, how sad for AML
From the horse's mouth at Gaydon whilst viewing the 770. "This will be the last AM V12"Best Regards
Minglar
Minglar said:
Would this be the same horse who told the 333 new V12 Vantage Coupe buyers that their cars were going to be the final V12 application, never to be seen again in any Vantage variant, and there would not be a new V12 Vantage Roadster?
Not sure it was the same horse but certainly in my case there was full disclosure that a V12 Vantage Roadster would follow. It was pretty obvious without having to ask TBH. I think the horse you are referring to was a dealer horse rather than a factory one. Horses for courses 
At the end of the day, the V12 has to go for emissions reasons, just like Bentley's W12. Unlike Ferrari, neither brand sells enough V12/W12 cars to put the R&D into trying to keep it compliant with the ever tightening regs.
The V8 also has lots of headroom for more performance. The Valhalla V8 should make 850PS before the hybrid gubbins.
Edited by GT3ZZZ on Monday 27th March 19:18
The limiting factor for the current engine series has been the gearbox db11 and vantage are both 8hp75 2nd generation, or the safe limit is 750nm. Now the Vantage will struggle to grow in terms of power without major modification to allow a bigger 'box.
The DB11 does not feature the same issue as the DBS feature the 8HP95, which essentially is 1000Nm.
I suppose AM could step away from the ZF box and go to the merc box featured in the DBX for the V8.
They could use it as a moment to give the Vantage a DCT I suppose, which was floated previously, whilst the DB11 goes more GT and super GT with a larger ZF box.
The DB11 does not feature the same issue as the DBS feature the 8HP95, which essentially is 1000Nm.
I suppose AM could step away from the ZF box and go to the merc box featured in the DBX for the V8.
They could use it as a moment to give the Vantage a DCT I suppose, which was floated previously, whilst the DB11 goes more GT and super GT with a larger ZF box.
Ninja59 said:
I suppose AM could step away from the ZF box and go to the merc box featured in the DBX for the V8.
They could use it as a moment to give the Vantage a DCT I suppose, which was floated previously, whilst the DB11 goes more GT and super GT with a larger ZF box.
Is the Merc' DCT 'box used in a transaxle? If not there may be a bit of re-engineering requiredThey could use it as a moment to give the Vantage a DCT I suppose, which was floated previously, whilst the DB11 goes more GT and super GT with a larger ZF box.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLR3-BXx3pU
Description reckons rumour has it is that it's a V12. Sounds like an environmentally muted V8 to me. Still decent.
Description reckons rumour has it is that it's a V12. Sounds like an environmentally muted V8 to me. Still decent.
Calinours said:
Just heard from a reliable source it’s going to be V8 only. Priced well above previous levels, similar power to DBX707, tuned for more progressive torque for 2WD.
Heard the same. Probably high 600's rather than 707, at least for the base spec. Torque curve will make it very drivable. Design cues a mix of V12 Vantage Final and 707.LTP said:
Is the Merc' DCT 'box used in a transaxle? If not there may be a bit of re-engineering required
Merc box is not transaxle in the dbx at least...Not surprised by some of the discussion on here I think they are making the replacement into more of the DBS space as that is not being replaced.
Ninja59 said:
Merc box is not transaxle in the dbx at least...
Not surprised by some of the discussion on here I think they are making the replacement into more of the DBS space as that is not being replaced.
This. There isn't room for a DBS and DB11 if the V12 has gone and it's all V8. So reprice DB11 towards former DBS and away we go.Not surprised by some of the discussion on here I think they are making the replacement into more of the DBS space as that is not being replaced.
Ninja59 said:
Not surprised by some of the discussion on here I think they are making the replacement into more of the DBS space as that is not being replaced.
That raises another question.
For a long time AML have continuously offered three core Sports/GT cars.
There were briefly four.
Vantage; DB9; (Virage) and DBS.
We know that the upper two are both based on the DB9, but each model had an individual position and price point.
With the current DBS being discontinued, that will just leave a range of one sports (Vantage) and one GT (DB11 replacement).
Perhaps there is a surprise coming, to create a three model Sports/GT range again.
Jon39 said:
That raises another question.
For a long time AML have continuously offered three core Sports/GT cars.
There were briefly four.
Vantage; DB9; (Virage) and DBS.
We know that the upper two are both based on the DB9, but each model had an individual position and price point.
With the current DBS being discontinued, that will just leave a range of one sports (Vantage) and one GT (DB11 replacement).
Perhaps there is a surprise coming, to create a three model Sports/GT range again.
It does mean as well that AM will have an entire line up powered by V8 which should help on fleet emissions.
One of the issues to many is the lack of real space between say an AMR DB11 and DBS. Even my Gaydon contact said technically the AMR DB11 put power down better than the DBS. Hence the revised torque for the ultimate 770.
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