Discussion
jonby said:
Simpo Two said:
If a car suffers from vast depreciation, does that suggest the starting price was too high and that 'the market' finds its true value instead?
That, and/or oversupplyA price may be too high for selling 2,000 cars but just right for selling 500 cars
Whether limited editions or production cars, Aston almost always get the balance between price & production numbers very badly wrong
How and why they don't learn is one of life's mysteries
Edited by Minglar on Tuesday 27th February 19:42
Dewi 2 said:
I thought in my post above that a £200,000 DB12 might depreciate by £85,000 up to year 3.
As you have suggested, the majority of purchases will be by PCP, so I took a look at the figures.
For a basic DB12 without options £188,500, the total amount required to pay over 36 months appears to be £124,876.
You then hand the car back, hoping that it has not exceeded 18,000 miles.
Can that really be correct ?
Quite possibly. Is that AM offering the deal, if so the finance rate will not be very good. The problem with pcp in high interest environments is that the buyer/renter is paying interest on a very large balance which inflates the figures. HP on the other hand tends to require a substantial deposit, with payments covering interest and capital, which makes the overall cost to finance significantly cheaper. Either way, financing a £200k car purchase is not going to be cheap. For cash buyers the opportunity cost of the money not invested/in savings will be a further cost to bear on top of depreciation. Bottom line, these are not financially prudent purchases lol.As you have suggested, the majority of purchases will be by PCP, so I took a look at the figures.
For a basic DB12 without options £188,500, the total amount required to pay over 36 months appears to be £124,876.
You then hand the car back, hoping that it has not exceeded 18,000 miles.
Can that really be correct ?
jonby said:
Whether limited editions or production cars, Aston almost always get the balance between price & production numbers very badly wrong
How and why they don't learn is one of life's mysteries
Blinded by the brand perhaps, a fact many of us are guilty of...!How and why they don't learn is one of life's mysteries
AstonZagato said:
The owners are finding they don't have any equity (or negative) and are giving them back to the finance companies - who want rid quickly and price as such.
Meanwhile the owner is then finding that a palatable monthly no longer finances a new Aston. It is more a base Porsche number.
Perhaps that's all part of Stroll's ultra-luxury master plan - to shake off the rabble and just keep the richest 10%? But never mind, there are still Gaydon cars Meanwhile the owner is then finding that a palatable monthly no longer finances a new Aston. It is more a base Porsche number.
- an era I'd liken to TVR's Griffith/Chimaera/Cerbera years in terms of popularity and sales.I think Stroll has always stated that his strategy was to build to order and hereby manage the prices and residuals of their cars, BUT when you are not making money it is a luxury to have a strategy in the first place. Just saw the first episode of Drive to Survive - Stroll doesn't really come over as the nicest guy on earth.
M1AGM said:
Dewi 2 said:
I thought in my post above that a £200,000 DB12 might depreciate by £85,000 up to year 3.
As you have suggested, the majority of purchases will be by PCP, so I took a look at the figures.
For a basic DB12 without options £188,500, the total amount required to pay over 36 months appears to be £124,876.
You then hand the car back, hoping that it has not exceeded 18,000 miles.
Can that really be correct ?
Quite possibly. Is that AM offering the deal, if so the finance rate will not be very good. The problem with pcp in high interest environments is that the buyer/renter is paying interest on a very large balance which inflates the figures. HP on the other hand tends to require a substantial deposit, with payments covering interest and capital, which makes the overall cost to finance significantly cheaper. Either way, financing a £200k car purchase is not going to be cheap. For cash buyers the opportunity cost of the money not invested/in savings will be a further cost to bear on top of depreciation. Bottom line, these are not financially prudent purchases lol.As you have suggested, the majority of purchases will be by PCP, so I took a look at the figures.
For a basic DB12 without options £188,500, the total amount required to pay over 36 months appears to be £124,876.
You then hand the car back, hoping that it has not exceeded 18,000 miles.
Can that really be correct ?
An Aston Martin dealer, so yes, I presume it is AM offering the deal.
If HP requires a substantial deposit, how should we describe £52,912 (28%), the PCP first payment.
Base car without options £188,500
The optional final payment is £97,243
Total amount payable £220,120.13
Total payment is therefore £31,620 more than the price of the car.
DeMuro on the DB12 ... he likes it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Capiv8EFKe8
mrpseudonym said:
hornbaek said:
.. saw the first episode of Drive to Survive - Stroll doesn't really come over as the nicest guy on earth.
Not to derail this thread, but you are so right. Out of all the characters in F1, Stroll comes off very badly. Certainly not an endearing charactermrpseudonym said:
hornbaek said:
.. saw the first episode of Drive to Survive - Stroll doesn't really come over as the nicest guy on earth.
Not to derail this thread, but you are so right. Out of all the characters in F1, Stroll comes off very badly. Certainly not an endearing characterUnfortunately, when Mr Stroll addresses an audience, his slow, monotone voice, gives the impression that he is totally bored with what he is trying to communicate and that he is very likely to fall asleep before he finishes.
Surely there must be coaches, who can help improve his projection.
Apart from that, I believe every other word he says.
BenAstonV12 said:
DeMuro on the DB12 ... he likes it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Capiv8EFKe8
I enjoyed that, and as a DB12 owner I agree with DeMuro – it feels very solid, comfortable and luxurious, but can also be insanely fast and sporty particularly in the mid range.As for pricing/plans, with AM's hire of the three ex-Ferrari executives in recent years, it feels like that's the kind of business model Stroll is aiming for. I hope they pull it off, but it's a tough market these days for sure.
(And as for the commenter above who suggested a Roma is better than DB12 at that price point, I say no way! The Roma is one of the worst looking Ferraris I have ever seen and suffers from the "entry level" stigma imo. The only Ferrari option I was considering vs my DB12 was a 4 year old 812.)
Minglar said:
This is pretty much spot on. The most recent standout example of this was the limited run previous generation new V12 Vantage. Only 333 coupés produced and buyers of those were told there would be no roadster. And true to form, another limited run of 249 roadsters was subsequently announced. I know coupé buyers were offered the chance to take the roadster should they choose to, but the depreciation on both of these cars has been pretty shocking considering the numbers produced and more importantly the time frame. I guess it didn’t help that the coupé was publicly revealed around the time that the war in Ukraine started, but some of these cars have shed almost 40% in two years. So the question has to be asked…..what is the point of buying a new Aston Martin nowadays, when you will no doubt be able to buy a lightly used one, possibly even a brand new one, at a significant discount if you are patient and are prepared to wait a little bit. Even if you can afford it, it just makes no sense at all. BRM.
+1 , Very well put. Edited by Minglar on Tuesday 27th February 19:42
I have bought brand new models before and thoroughly enjoy the whole speccing and buying experience but obviously not the financial loss.
My exception would be my GT8 which was always bought as a keeper and therefore it’s value equation was of little concern per se.
In fairness though it’s pricing originally wasn’t as excessive as perhaps the run out V12 which Minglar refers to especially in terms of the numbers produced.
Jon39 said:
mrpseudonym said:
hornbaek said:
.. saw the first episode of Drive to Survive - Stroll doesn't really come over as the nicest guy on earth.
Not to derail this thread, but you are so right. Out of all the characters in F1, Stroll comes off very badly. Certainly not an endearing characterUnfortunately, when Mr Stroll addresses an audience, his slow, monotone voice, gives the impression that he is totally bored with what he is trying to communicate and that he is very likely to fall asleep before he finishes.
Surely there must be coaches, who can help improve his projection.
Apart from that, I believe every other word he says.
If some people who look nice on TV prove not to be in real life, I suppose the inverse can be true as well.
I was curious if the DB12 would be a good drifting machine. The answer is YES!
Here's a quick POV from Thunderhill. Hope to post a longer video with highlights, from inside and out, a bit later...
https://youtu.be/cJZTLI8k0qM
Here's a quick POV from Thunderhill. Hope to post a longer video with highlights, from inside and out, a bit later...
https://youtu.be/cJZTLI8k0qM
kbaillie said:
I was curious if the DB12 would be a good drifting machine. The answer is YES!
Here's a quick POV from Thunderhill. Hope to post a longer video with highlights, from inside and out, a bit later...
https://youtu.be/cJZTLI8k0qM
Looks like you were having fun Here's a quick POV from Thunderhill. Hope to post a longer video with highlights, from inside and out, a bit later...
https://youtu.be/cJZTLI8k0qM
Top Gear comparison, DB12 v the GranTurismo, one very good car, one great car: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/aston-m...
"Aston Martin, as it does in the DBX and Vantage, borrows its V8 from Mercedes. No problem with that, it’s just about the best there is. I was sceptical whether the DB12 needed this much power, but what it means is you always have more in reserve. Always. You don’t need it, and at low speeds you can’t have it, because that much power easily overcomes the grip of a pair of 325-width Michelins. But once up and running the Aston is deeply, forcefully fast. From 60–130mph it’s a second quicker than a Ferrari Purosangue, almost two ahead of its rival here. Quicker than either an Audi R8 V10 Plus or Taycan Turbo S. Supercar speed."
"Aston Martin, as it does in the DBX and Vantage, borrows its V8 from Mercedes. No problem with that, it’s just about the best there is. I was sceptical whether the DB12 needed this much power, but what it means is you always have more in reserve. Always. You don’t need it, and at low speeds you can’t have it, because that much power easily overcomes the grip of a pair of 325-width Michelins. But once up and running the Aston is deeply, forcefully fast. From 60–130mph it’s a second quicker than a Ferrari Purosangue, almost two ahead of its rival here. Quicker than either an Audi R8 V10 Plus or Taycan Turbo S. Supercar speed."
BenAstonV12 said:
"Aston Martin, as it does in the DBX and Vantage, borrows its V8 from Mercedes. No problem with that, it’s just about the best there is. I was sceptical whether the DB12 needed this much power, but what it means is you always have more in reserve. Always. You don’t need it, and at low speeds you can’t have it, because that much power easily overcomes the grip of a pair of 325-width Michelins. But once up and running the Aston is deeply, forcefully fast. From 60–130mph it’s a second quicker than a Ferrari Purosangue, almost two ahead of its rival here. Quicker than either an Audi R8 V10 Plus or Taycan Turbo S. Supercar speed."
Nobody this side of Margate is going to be enjoying the 'one second quicker from 60-130 than a Ferrari Purosangue'; the main thing is 'It's an Aston'.Contrary to the Top Gear article, I think the closest competitor is the Roma and I think the decision between the two would be very subjective. I am not used to Maserati's in this section of the market place and don't think the brand values support the price.
What I want to know is whether by making the DB12 sportier than the 11 they have also made it a bit less of a GT? Is the ride firmer even in Comfort (I get the impression yes) and how does the sound level compare?
Is there less torque below 3k rpm than in my DB11 V12? (Top end power is of not the slightest interest to me, I have long thought that as power goes beyond 400 bhp satisfaction reduces - for a UK road driver).
Would very much like to hear answers from any DB11 V12 owner who has driven the newer car.
What I want to know is whether by making the DB12 sportier than the 11 they have also made it a bit less of a GT? Is the ride firmer even in Comfort (I get the impression yes) and how does the sound level compare?
Is there less torque below 3k rpm than in my DB11 V12? (Top end power is of not the slightest interest to me, I have long thought that as power goes beyond 400 bhp satisfaction reduces - for a UK road driver).
Would very much like to hear answers from any DB11 V12 owner who has driven the newer car.
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