New owner: insurance

[Jon39]

LooneyTunes said:

My previous insurer advised that they wouldn’t be quoting on my Range Rover a little over a year ago.
Even with it being a post-facelift (when JLR claimed to have addressed keyless vulnerabilities) ...

I seem to remember, that JLR claimed to have adddessed keyless vulnerabilities, many years ago.
Perhaps they make the same statement, with every model improvement.

Can keyless entry systems be completely disabled, by owners who wish to have it done ?
Perhaps that would be a start, so there is not a radio signal available to be intercepted at any time.

I can remember reading about how the theft is done, probably a decade ago, in the Sunday Times.
Manufacturers probably found the system was such a good selling feature, that they just carried on with it.
Maybe thought they would sell more cars to owners who had theirs stolen.
Doubt that is applicable now though. How ironic that JLR's associated insurer, is refusing to insure Range Rovers.

Regarding LV (Liverpool Victoria was originally a doorstep payment collection life assurance business), they used to offer very competitive premiums for both motor and household insurance. A change of ownership quite a few years ago (might have been to a private equity firm) marked the end of that and their premiums increased considerably. They still write to me every year, but they are wasting their time.

Edited by Jon39 on Tuesday 30th January 11:38

[Davil]

For those in Australia, suddenly Budget Direct will now insure my Aston. Don’t know if that’s because I already have my M2 CS with them or just a change in policy. I think the latter. Certainly worth checking.

I was previously with Shannons. They wanted $2800 to renew (1456 UK pounds). $170k replacement value.

Budget Direct with choice of repairer and roadside assistance was $1400 (728 UK pounds). $160k replacement value.

[KernowShep]

Jon39 said:

Can keyless entry systems be completely disabled, by owners who wish to have it done ?
Perhaps that would be a start, so there is not a radio signal available to be intercepted at any time.
I can remember reading about how it is done, probably a decade ago, in the Sunday Times.
Manufacturers probably found the system was such a good selling feature, that they just carried on with it.

from a quick google - the keyless entry can be turned off on a Range Rover by using the following method.
With the drivers door open, press the lights on button (bottom left) on the key fob 3 times, followed immediately by the unlock button (top right) once.

Edited by KernowShep on Tuesday 30th January 14:21

Edited by KernowShep on Tuesday 30th January 14:23

[Dewi 2]

On the various AM Insurance topics, several members have mentioned insuring with Admiral.

I have never had any dealings with them, but they now appear competitive (if more than double my Vantage premium can be called competitive) for an everyday daily driver.

Do they operate in a time efficient, sensible way and if it becomes necessary, do they allow policyholders to choose repairers ?

[alscar]

Dewi 2 said:

On the various AM Insurance topics, several members have mentioned insuring with Admiral.

I have never had any dealings with them, but they now appear competitive (if more than double my Vantage premium can be called competitive) for an everyday daily driver.

Do they operate in a time efficient, sensible way and if it becomes necessary, do they allow policyholders to choose repairers ?

I used to insure my 3 children's cars with them and their admin and process were good -never had to claim thankfully so cannot comment on that aspect.
However whilst there are a few people on PH who report excellent claims service and timeliness from them I think ultimately the question is how lucky do you feel ?
Admiral are the largest private car Insurer in the UK but also being the cheapest on many occasions ( and on many comparison sites ) might come at a price.
Car Insurance is for many just about getting the cheapest price which is perfectly understandable except sometimes you don't want the worry of wondering how good they may be or perhaps how much hassle do you want post a claim ?

[Dewi 2]

alscar said:

I used to insure my 3 children's cars with them and their admin and process were good -never had to claim thankfully so cannot comment on that aspect.
However whilst there are a few people on PH who report excellent claims service and timeliness from them I think ultimately the question is how lucky do you feel ?
Admiral are the largest private car Insurer in the UK but also being the cheapest on many occasions ( and on many comparison sites ) might come at a price.
Car Insurance is for many just about getting the cheapest price which is perfectly understandable except sometimes you don't want the worry of wondering how good they may be or perhaps how much hassle do you want post a claim ?

Thank you alscar for your reply.

Over the past 12 months, it appears that the whole UK insurance market has gone mad.
Perhaps the days of Aston Martin insurance under £300 are over. I still have 6 months remaining, before discovering.

As for trying to arrange cover for a new daily driver, Direct Line have now topped my short list.

To illustrate an exampe of the madness, Mercedes Insurance offered their best quote by Highway (who are they? - their reply was an Aviva subsidiary, although Google states a Liverpool Victoria company), @ £625.
Lloyds Bank Insurance offered their best quote, also by Highway, @ £1,100. !!!

I have never yet made an insurance claim in my life, so quite happy now to self insure where possible, pay minimum and participate in risk sharing.
I feel sorry for people who can least afford insurance, but are suddenly caught up in this rampant premium inflation.
Makes one wonder whether there might be market manipulation going on ?
At 2:30pm, the Financial Watchdog is probably not even back from lunch yet.

[alscar]

Dewi 2 said:

Thank you alscar for your reply.

Over the past 12 months, it appears that the whole UK insurance market has gone mad.
Perhaps the days of Aston Martin insurance under £300 are over. I still have 6 months remaining, before discovering.

As for trying to arrange cover for a new daily driver, Direct Line have now topped my short list.

To illustrate an exampe of the madness, Mercedes Insurance offered their best quote by Highway (who are they? - their reply was an Aviva subsidiary, although Google states a Liverpool Victoria company), @ £625.
Lloyds Bank Insurance offered their best quote, also by Highway, @ £1,100. !!!

I have never yet made an insurance claim in my life, so quite happy now to self insure where possible, pay minimum and participate in risk sharing.
I feel sorry for people who can least afford insurance, but are suddenly caught up in this rampant premium inflation.
Makes one wonder whether there might be market manipulation going on ?
At 2:30pm, the Financial Watchdog is probably not even back from lunch yet.

Hate to say it but car Insurers results over the last couple of years have been pretty poor.
In fact over any given cycle they rarely manage to exceed more than single digit net loss ratio profits.
Average hikes over the past year or so have apparently been somewhere in the 34% to 48% bracket iirc.
Fundamentally car insurance premiums have just been too low in the UK.
Add in life post Covid , much increased hire car prices , repair bills , spare parts costs and whatever the current rate of inflation is has been left far behind.
Quite a few companies also appear to have radically changed underwriting strategies.
None of this is obviously good for drivers.
Either shop around or find a decent broker to do all the work.

[Dewi 2]

alscar said:

Hate to say it but car Insurers results over the last couple of years have been pretty poor.
In fact over any given cycle they rarely manage to exceed more than single digit net loss ratio profits.
Average hikes over the past year or so have apparently been somewhere in the 34% to 48% bracket iirc.
Fundamentally car insurance premiums have just been too low in the UK.
Add in life post Covid , much increased hire car prices , repair bills , spare parts costs and whatever the current rate of inflation is has been left far behind.
Quite a few companies also appear to have radically changed underwriting strategies.
None of this is obviously good for drivers.
Either shop around or find a decent broker to do all the work.

Yes, exactly what Warren Buffett has been talking about, when describing the financial results of general insurers.
His very successful part of the industry has now become the largest rreinsurer in the world.

Our own insurers benefited briefly during the pandemic. I don't expect any of us received a premium rebate, for not driving Aston Martins during 2020.

[basherX]

Interesting seeing this thread pop up again. As my OPs imply, I was caught a little off guard by the insurance cost of entry to Vantage ownership. Bit naive maybe. Nonetheless, although it’s not been a year yet I’m in the market now looking for insurance for my daily driver.

For the second year running my LV renewal has risen quite substantially, at least in percentage terms. Ultimately the only “recognisable” (to me) insurers quoting were Admiral, LV and Axa- all at roughly the same price and terms, at least as far as I can see.

However, Admiral are willing to take the Vantage as well on a multicar policy and at about half of the price I paid last year. Seems a little too good to be true and I’m pondering if that’s reflective of the standard of repair they offer.

[Dewi 2]

basherX said:

Interesting seeing this thread pop up again. As my OPs imply, I was caught a little off guard by the insurance cost of entry to Vantage ownership. Bit naive maybe. Nonetheless, although it’s not been a year yet I’m in the market now looking for insurance for my daily driver.

For the second year running my LV renewal has risen quite substantially, at least in percentage terms.
However, Admiral are willing to take the Vantage as well on a multicar policy and at about half of the price I paid last year. Seems a little too good to be true and I’m pondering if that’s reflective of the standard of repair they offer.

'caught a little off guard'
Are you meaning the premium was higher, or lower than you had anticipated?

'at about half of the price'
Until recently, it seems Vantage premiums have been comparatively low, so presumably overall there must be few claims.
I bought my 4.7 in 2011 and initially the insurance with Aviva using a broker, was £700.
Now many years later, and after briefly using NFU, I have once again been with Aviva for a while (direct this time) at £260.

LV used to be very competitive. I used them for both cars and household. Think LV were then bought by a private equity business, prices shot up and al my policies with them moved elsewhere.

Presumably the standard of repair must depend on the bodyshop. I always make sure a policy will allow choice of repairer. Noticed today that the way Direct Line deal with that point, is to charge an extra £250 excess to go away from their 'approved repairers'. Seems fair and is also made clear. Approved probably suggests cheap, using non-OEM parts, rather than Aston Martin Works Service doing a repair.

[Simpo Two]

Dewi 2 said:

Our own insurers benefited briefly during the pandemic. I don't expect any of us received a premium rebate, for not driving Aston Martins during 2020.

And neither did boat owners get a rebate from the Environment Agency when we paid to navigate the river but they closed it to navigation. An average size boat costs almost as much as an Aston Martin to tax. They justified it by saying 'Ah but we are still maintaining the river'. That story was rather shot to bits when the Govt ended lockdown so we all wanted to use our boats again but the EA said 'Oh er actually hang on we have some work to do first...' Lazy fkers.

Anyway, back to insurance. There are some smart, wealthy and well-connected people here; surely we just need to form a syndicate, self-insure and sub the risk out to someone else, no? Most of the insurance industry seems to be 're-insurance' which must explain why it costs so much... too many layers...

Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 15th April 22:38

[Dingu]

Dewi 2 said:

Yes, exactly what Warren Buffett has been talking about, when describing the financial results of general insurers.
His very successful part of the industry has now become the largest rreinsurer in the world.

Our own insurers benefited briefly during the pandemic. I don't expect any of us received a premium rebate, for not driving Aston Martins during 2020.

You would have if insured with Admiral as it happens.

https://www.admiral.com/about-us/stay-at-home-refu...

[Simpo Two]

Dingu said:

You would have if insured with Admiral as it happens.

https://www.admiral.com/about-us/stay-at-home-refu...

I was with Direct Line or Elephant at the time. They did offer a refund; I think it was £12 or something equally ridiculous. Massively short of pro-rata.

[Dingu]

Simpo Two said:

Dingu said:

You would have if insured with Admiral as it happens.

https://www.admiral.com/about-us/stay-at-home-refu...

I was with Direct Line or Elephant at the time. They did offer a refund; I think it was £12 or something equally ridiculous. Massively short of pro-rata.

You do realise that people still drove and there was still claims during the lockdowns? Lower mileage =/= lower risk.

If you wanted pro rata you should have sorned it.

[basherX]

Dewi 2 said:

'caught a little off guard'
Are you meaning the premium was higher, or lower than you had anticipated?

'at about half of the price'
Until recently, it seems Vantage premiums have been comparatively low, so presumably overall there must be few claims.
I bought my 4.7 in 2011 and initially the insurance with Aviva using a broker, was £700.
Now many years later, and after briefly using NFU, I have once again been with Aviva for a while (direct this time) at £260.

LV used to be very competitive. I used them for both cars and household. Think LV were then bought by a private equity business, prices shot up and al my policies with them moved elsewhere.

Presumably the standard of repair must depend on the bodyshop. I always make sure a policy will allow choice of repairer. Noticed today that the way Direct Line deal with that point, is to charge an extra £250 excess to go away from their 'approved repairers'. Seems fair and is also made clear. Approved probably suggests cheap, using non-OEM parts, rather than Aston Martin Works Service doing a repair.

Caught a little off guard meaning it came in more than I’d expected.

[Simpo Two]

Dingu said:

You do realise that people still drove and there was still claims during the lockdowns? Lower mileage =/= lower risk.

If you wanted pro rata you should have sorned it.

You had to submit mileage to claim it.

SORN would not have achieved pro rata, it would simply have rendered me car-less. And I don't think my risk only reduced by 12/400ths.

'He who makes the rules, wins'.

[alscar]

basherX said:

Interesting seeing this thread pop up again. As my OPs imply, I was caught a little off guard by the insurance cost of entry to Vantage ownership. Bit naive maybe. Nonetheless, although it’s not been a year yet I’m in the market now looking for insurance for my daily driver.

For the second year running my LV renewal has risen quite substantially, at least in percentage terms. Ultimately the only “recognisable” (to me) insurers quoting were Admiral, LV and Axa- all at roughly the same price and terms, at least as far as I can see.

However, Admiral are willing to take the Vantage as well on a multicar policy and at about half of the price I paid last year. Seems a little too good to be true and I’m pondering if that’s reflective of the standard of repair they offer.

As long as you go into insuring with Admiral with your eyes wide open then you like many many people insured with them should be ok and of course hopefully you won't need to claim anyway.
The disparity between premiums should be measured in £ though to aid your decision.

[alscar]

Dewi 2 said:

'at about half of the price'
Until recently, it seems Vantage premiums have been comparatively low, so presumably overall there must be few claims.
I bought my 4.7 in 2011 and initially the insurance with Aviva using a broker, was £700.
Now many years later, and after briefly using NFU, I have once again been with Aviva for a while (direct this time) at £260.

Presumably the standard of repair must depend on the bodyshop. I always make sure a policy will allow choice of repairer. Noticed today that the way Direct Line deal with that point, is to charge an extra £250 excess to go away from their 'approved repairers'. Seems fair and is also made clear. Approved probably suggests cheap, using non-OEM parts, rather than Aston Martin Works Service doing a repair.

Given numbers on the road I would tend to agree about fewer claims albeit when they occur also rather more expensive than average perhaps.
£260 is / was very good value /cheap but just unstainable.
When I was unfortunate enough to suffer a claim in a previous Aston I made one call to the Insurer ( actually the Broker ) , one call to Works and then waited for a few weeks for them to return it all fixed.
Yes my policy wasn't cheap but to remove the hassle was certainly value for money.

[alscar]

Simpo Two said:

Anyway, back to insurance. There are some smart, wealthy and well-connected people here; surely we just need to form a syndicate, self-insure and sub the risk out to someone else, no? Most of the insurance industry seems to be 're-insurance' which must explain why it costs so much... too many layers...

Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 15th April 22:38

Long gone are the days where you could protect your Syndicate classes with Stop losses and the like which in effect even after paying for them guaranteed you a profit.
Costs of Reinsurance for private Motor ( largely iro the RTA aspect ) are also way in excess of the profit margin you have to play with.
By and large individual risk RI is never bought as entities will trade the size of the overall account against this.

[Dewi 2]

Dingu said:

You would have if insured with Admiral as it happens.

https://www.admiral.com/about-us/stay-at-home-refu...

Sounds fair to both parties under the circumstances.
Think my mileage was 200 miles that year.
My lot (think NFU at the time) trousered the entire premium.
Think my money was probably used, to pay towards all their farm machinery claims.

The car is SORNed each winter. You used to be able to tell your insurer when off the road, for a 75% pro rata refund.
Now whenever we change anything at all, "That will be a £30 administration charge Sir. And have a good day."