RE: Ford will sell Aston Martin
Discussion
I'm not sure who the right owner would be for AM. However, if they have the necessary funding I think JCB would be perfect for LR and Jag. The JCB/LR crossover clearly has huge market potential and the parts sharing between LR and Jag seems sensible ie. high torque engines, luxury without being OTT etc.
Aston Martin need to be seperated from Jaguar, the relationship is holding both companies back now. Perhaps Ford should keep AM and sell LR/Jag as above?
Aston Martin need to be seperated from Jaguar, the relationship is holding both companies back now. Perhaps Ford should keep AM and sell LR/Jag as above?
This is a real shame.
For once in their history Aston seem to be doing really well. Their brand has gone from strength to strength, the cars have been greatly improved and they are turning a profit.
I went for a tour round the factory in the days of the Vantage and Virage, it had a real old world feel (the water being caught in buckets on the floor helped!!) and while they had the heritage they didn't have the money to develop it.
When Ford took over i was worried, i thought this big American company just wouldn't get what Aston was all about but they did. The managed to invest, turn the company round and keep that exclusive feel for the company.
I really hope that Fiat or Peugeot don't take over (as was suggested earlier) i can't see them being able to keep up the good work, but then i was wrong about Ford too.
How about Prodrive? They run the Aston Le Mans project have a fair amount of input with Subarus and had a concept production car on Top Gear not too long ago.
Just an idea.......
For once in their history Aston seem to be doing really well. Their brand has gone from strength to strength, the cars have been greatly improved and they are turning a profit.
I went for a tour round the factory in the days of the Vantage and Virage, it had a real old world feel (the water being caught in buckets on the floor helped!!) and while they had the heritage they didn't have the money to develop it.
When Ford took over i was worried, i thought this big American company just wouldn't get what Aston was all about but they did. The managed to invest, turn the company round and keep that exclusive feel for the company.
I really hope that Fiat or Peugeot don't take over (as was suggested earlier) i can't see them being able to keep up the good work, but then i was wrong about Ford too.
How about Prodrive? They run the Aston Le Mans project have a fair amount of input with Subarus and had a concept production car on Top Gear not too long ago.
Just an idea.......
heelantoe said:
How about Prodrive? They run the Aston Le Mans project have a fair amount of input with Subarus and had a concept production car on Top Gear not too long ago.
Just an idea.......
Just an idea.......
Not a bad idea, although with Dave Richards entering F1 next year such a purchase could overstretch them. However, it could be an interesting way of getting AM on the Grand Prix grid - for the first time in 80 years or so... Mind you, that would probably kill the brand like it did with Jaguar.
groomi said:
I'm not sure who the right owner would be for AM. However, if they have the necessary funding I think JCB would be perfect for LR and Jag. The JCB/LR crossover clearly has huge market potential and the parts sharing between LR and Jag seems sensible ie. high torque engines, luxury without being OTT etc.
Aston Martin need to be seperated from Jaguar, the relationship is holding both companies back now. Perhaps Ford should keep AM and sell LR/Jag as above?
Jaguar and Aston Martin should definitely be seperated IMO, then we'll see.Aston Martin need to be seperated from Jaguar, the relationship is holding both companies back now. Perhaps Ford should keep AM and sell LR/Jag as above?
Interesting, the Times today are saying that a management buy out is under consideration.
Ulrich Bez has been a fine leader for Aston since 2000, if you meet him you realise he is driven, passionate, motivational & also a car enthusiast.
He would be the perfect custodian of the brand, providing the buy out consortium had enough cash behind them.
Another article in the same paper says, Ford have spent money on the brand, regardless of return!!! So it won't be easy for Aston to survive without the support of one of the big players!
Ulrich Bez has been a fine leader for Aston since 2000, if you meet him you realise he is driven, passionate, motivational & also a car enthusiast.
He would be the perfect custodian of the brand, providing the buy out consortium had enough cash behind them.
Another article in the same paper says, Ford have spent money on the brand, regardless of return!!! So it won't be easy for Aston to survive without the support of one of the big players!
chickensoup said:
Struggle to see any crossover between JCB & LR - one makes diggers & telescopic loaders, the other makes Land Rovers & Range Rovers. I suppose they could bulk buy yellow paint
Try a little imagination. One currently makes worldwide selling industrial construction vehicles, the other makes worldwide selling utilitarian vehicles which can and are used for commercial, domestic, pleasure, military, agricultural use. The Defender chassis has been used as a basis for so many different applications.
It would be very easy for JCB/LR to expand the current range to include commercial/light industrial vehicles with modular bodies for a variety of uses and to use the worldwide exposure to sell signficant numbers.
grant3 said:
Interesting, the Times today are saying that a management buy out is under consideration.
Ulrich Bez has been a fine leader for Aston since 2000, if you meet him you realise he is driven, passionate, motivational & also a car enthusiast.
He would be the perfect custodian of the brand, providing the buy out consortium had enough cash behind them.
Another article in the same paper says, Ford have spent money on the brand, regardless of return!!! So it won't be easy for Aston to survive without the support of one of the big players!
Ulrich Bez has been a fine leader for Aston since 2000, if you meet him you realise he is driven, passionate, motivational & also a car enthusiast.
He would be the perfect custodian of the brand, providing the buy out consortium had enough cash behind them.
Another article in the same paper says, Ford have spent money on the brand, regardless of return!!! So it won't be easy for Aston to survive without the support of one of the big players!
Ive read that somewhere esle but can't remember where. I think it also referred to Jac Nasser leading another consortium to buy it.
havoc said:
I'd be surprised if it'll happen.
In order of significance...:-
1) Price - AM is worth a LOT less than Ford want for it. It may be profitable but it's very small-volume and is still paying off a spanking-new factory. Not THAT great an investment, from a business perspective.
2) Parts / partnerships / supply chain - a fair few parts are also 'Ford' parts (inc. PAG companies), so will have to continue to be sourced from Ford/PAG...that'd have to be carefully negotiated. Ditt
3) Location - Gaydon is on the same site as the J&LR design centre...would need to change the security gating and add additional fencing, plus they share access to a public road. And would AM be a 'tenant' of J&LR?
4) Technology transfer - AM probably have incorporated much of Ford's latest tech (diesel excepted)...what will be the IPR issues there?
In order of significance...:-
1) Price - AM is worth a LOT less than Ford want for it. It may be profitable but it's very small-volume and is still paying off a spanking-new factory. Not THAT great an investment, from a business perspective.
2) Parts / partnerships / supply chain - a fair few parts are also 'Ford' parts (inc. PAG companies), so will have to continue to be sourced from Ford/PAG...that'd have to be carefully negotiated. Ditt
3) Location - Gaydon is on the same site as the J&LR design centre...would need to change the security gating and add additional fencing, plus they share access to a public road. And would AM be a 'tenant' of J&LR?
4) Technology transfer - AM probably have incorporated much of Ford's latest tech (diesel excepted)...what will be the IPR issues there?
Yes they're at the same address, but the sites are virtually separate now. A little fencing, and a a couple of internal roads to be dug-up will separate them. They already have their own roads to the main highway, they don't share anymore. Same goes for the security.
JCB would be a disaster for AM. When i last visited them , they were very eager to point out how 'cash rich' they were, but to be in the businees of luxury car development, you are int another league of long term investment.
I know that JCB are developing their very own powerplants - they are an engineering company - but they do not undertstand the passenger vehicle development at this level.
For AM to continue to flourish - and that means continual cutting edge development , they will need the resources of a global player, access to commodities at volume driven prices, adoption of world class development processes.
Ford has been a super benefactor to AM. Let no one forget that.
In the wrong hands - for the sake of some patriotic reverie, they will be back into the dark ages. We have seen this before.
This is a global business, live or die by the product's merit in the market place - nothing else counts.
I know that JCB are developing their very own powerplants - they are an engineering company - but they do not undertstand the passenger vehicle development at this level.
For AM to continue to flourish - and that means continual cutting edge development , they will need the resources of a global player, access to commodities at volume driven prices, adoption of world class development processes.
Ford has been a super benefactor to AM. Let no one forget that.
In the wrong hands - for the sake of some patriotic reverie, they will be back into the dark ages. We have seen this before.
This is a global business, live or die by the product's merit in the market place - nothing else counts.
pddmac said:
JCB would be a disaster for AM. When i last visited them , they were very eager to point out how 'cash rich' they were, but to be in the businees of luxury car development, you are int another league of long term investment.
I know that JCB are developing their very own powerplants - they are an engineering company - but they do not undertstand the passenger vehicle development at this level.
For AM to continue to flourish - and that means continual cutting edge development , they will need the resources of a global player, access to commodities at volume driven prices, adoption of world class development processes.
Ford has been a super benefactor to AM. Let no one forget that.
In the wrong hands - for the sake of some patriotic reverie, they will be back into the dark ages. We have seen this before.
This is a global business, live or die by the product's merit in the market place - nothing else counts.
I know that JCB are developing their very own powerplants - they are an engineering company - but they do not undertstand the passenger vehicle development at this level.
For AM to continue to flourish - and that means continual cutting edge development , they will need the resources of a global player, access to commodities at volume driven prices, adoption of world class development processes.
Ford has been a super benefactor to AM. Let no one forget that.
In the wrong hands - for the sake of some patriotic reverie, they will be back into the dark ages. We have seen this before.
This is a global business, live or die by the product's merit in the market place - nothing else counts.
Well according to the big man himself at JCB (quoted in Autocar last week), he does have the engineeing know how.
"It's a shame what's happening to Jaguar; Ford should sell it to me. JCB has the engineering talent"
With that sort of arrogant leadership, then you're right, AM will head back to the dark ages.
MidnightDriver said:
[quote=B10]It would be lovely for AM, Jag and LR to become British owned again. quote]
Yeh but then all the workers might start striking coz of poor management,and when they aint striking they'll do shoddy job of makin cars cos of a unhappy workin environment and poor fundin,this will lead to poor sales and no profits ,and that will lead to AM,jag and LR being sold to a group of fat cats for a tenner,who will ultimately sell them off to the chinese
Yeh but then all the workers might start striking coz of poor management,and when they aint striking they'll do shoddy job of makin cars cos of a unhappy workin environment and poor fundin,this will lead to poor sales and no profits ,and that will lead to AM,jag and LR being sold to a group of fat cats for a tenner,who will ultimately sell them off to the chinese
You missed the bit where the Government, who are dead set on getting everybody out of their cars, steps in with a load of taxpayers dosh to try and keep people building cars that the Government don't want the taxpayers to drive
I agree. What do we actually know about JCB. The world has moved away beyond the david brown days where a wealthy man can keep Aston Martin as an expensive toy and not bother too much if they dont make money. It will end up like one of the beardier classic car clubs. With similar numbers standing at the roadside with the bonnets up and flasks of coffee being passed round.
I dont think JCB have a blind clue about car engineering and I have heard it said they dont know much about digger engineering either.
I just think ford must be mad. They have done a FANTASTIC job getting AM, Jaguar and LR out of the dark ages and leading edge in every way. Surely someone can make money making and selling these cars. If so, why not Ford. I wonder if this is all coming out of a totally USA centred view where they will burn the ranch if it means they will be seen to succeed in the home market. And no doubt in the US they will cream themselves at the image of beancounter/management consultant Hard Man jetting in wearing sharp suit sacking thousands and ditching ' irrelevant foreign luxuries '.
Wibble wibble
I dont think JCB have a blind clue about car engineering and I have heard it said they dont know much about digger engineering either.
I just think ford must be mad. They have done a FANTASTIC job getting AM, Jaguar and LR out of the dark ages and leading edge in every way. Surely someone can make money making and selling these cars. If so, why not Ford. I wonder if this is all coming out of a totally USA centred view where they will burn the ranch if it means they will be seen to succeed in the home market. And no doubt in the US they will cream themselves at the image of beancounter/management consultant Hard Man jetting in wearing sharp suit sacking thousands and ditching ' irrelevant foreign luxuries '.
Wibble wibble
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