Aston Residuals debate..... your thoughts?

[Pugsey]

Grant3 said:

Pugs... your on a wind up , you must be you little tinker

You spend more time & effort avoiding depreciation than anyone else I know !

How... by very carefully selecting only the next "it" car, offloading it early (alla GT3) because "values are softening" spending time & effort ensuring a resale value ahead of sale as per your first AMV8, actually offloading the AM Roadster straight away because values were dumping & spending time negotiating an agreed buy back deal for an 430 without restrictive mileage.... etc etc

All very shrewd & commendable, I have the greatest respect for your skills.. , but all time & effort spent trying to keep as much dosh in your pocket & REDUCE DEPRECIATION which IMHO is a wise thing to do... I certainly look after the pound in my pocket as well as possible which is one reason why I can afford the Aston!

Doesn't mean you don't enjoy your cars, or enjoy winding me up by playing devils advocate,you B*gger !

Anyway the few who aren't "really" bothered about chucking £25k away in a year, when it could have been £10k (with £15k in their pocket) will not make enough difference when the brand value softens due to continued oversupply !

Edited to add.... By the way I'm not bad mouthing Aston, residuals on my last V8 were spot on what I expected, just trying to use "customer feedback power" to ensure they don't continue down the oversupply path to future doom!

Edited by Grant3 on Saturday 30th August 19:35

As you suggest G. - all good fun, and only aimed at mates who can take it!

HOWEVER I could continue the wind up by pointing out that, irrespective of my success at avoiding/reducing the depreciation risk, I ALSO practice what I preach and don't chunter on about it.

Final thought - if the 'it' car game wasn't possible and I had to suffer 'normal' depreciation on the cars mentioned would I still have bought them? OH YES!! Petrol head first me.

Edited by Pugsey on Sunday 31st August 10:17

[Pugsey]

Grant3 said:

cardigankid said:

And because good Vanquishes are now cheap enough to be bought by bottom feeders like myself, is it really all that bad a thing? I don't like to see people lose money on cars,particularly the heroes that keep the factories going by buying the new ones, but its going to happen, its the pleasure you get out of them that repays that.

The real answer to depreciation is to buy a stonker and keep it for a very long time.

Cardy... if you can afford £80k for a Vanquish & then run it, I think you must be doing very well
Pleasure vs pain.. its a life balance thing & it all depends how much pain £££ the pleasure causes

Edited by Grant3 on Saturday 30th August 19:48

Yes indeed Cardi, I'm sure most people out there would love to be your kind of impoverished 'bottom feeder'. Smart man!

[Murph7355]

Pugsey said:

Murph - great minds? Well, certainly like minds!

I like to think the former

btw, did you tell your mate with the Bentley to sell it?

Like bikeracer1098 notes, some people just like to moan. In fact, I'm a classic case in point. Nowt like a good rant/whinge. But I see no point doing it about depreciation on a car I bought as would never be dumb enough to enter into without being aware of the trousering I was due (not that I'd ever have even remotely considered a Conti - old cigar smoking man's car, unless pimped and owned by a drug dealer/rapper).

All that said, it would be nice to think that Aston would be careful with production of their baby. But then that was never the objective for their tiddler.

[jus]

It's not so much their production volumes they need to worry about, but the distribution of those volumes, geographically... it seems they are making the same mistake here in SA wrt oversupply. The dealer is speccing and ordering all available allocations whether a customer has actually ordered that car or not, and then hoping to sell it in at some point...

[Murph7355]

jus said:

It's not so much their production volumes they need to worry about, but the distribution of those volumes, geographically... it seems they are making the same mistake here in SA wrt oversupply. The dealer is speccing and ordering all available allocations whether a customer has actually ordered that car or not, and then hoping to sell it in at some point...

I wonder if they've tied in dealers to a given volume per annum as per Ferrari's practice...

[Grant3]

Murph7355 said:

All that said, it would be nice to think that Aston would be careful with production of their baby.

Agreed

[Murph7355]

Grant3 said:

Agreed

Splendid.

Now, have you managed sunburn with yours yet? And what are your general impressions versus the last one you had?

[jus]

Murph7355 said:

jus said:

It's not so much their production volumes they need to worry about, but the distribution of those volumes, geographically... it seems they are making the same mistake here in SA wrt oversupply. The dealer is speccing and ordering all available allocations whether a customer has actually ordered that car or not, and then hoping to sell it in at some point...

I wonder if they've tied in dealers to a given volume per annum as per Ferrari's practice...

I think what might've happened is that the dealer got all over-excited last year and convinced Aston to give them additional allocation (for instance I know they managed to get 12 DBSs, up from 6), and now that times are tough, they're trying to save face a bit...

[Pugsey]

Murph7355 said:

Pugsey said:

Murph - great minds? Well, certainly like minds!

I like to think the former

btw, did you tell your mate with the Bentley to sell it?

Like bikeracer1098 notes, some people just like to moan. In fact, I'm a classic case in point. Nowt like a good rant/whinge. But I see no point doing it about depreciation on a car I bought as would never be dumb enough to enter into without being aware of the trousering I was due (not that I'd ever have even remotely considered a Conti - old cigar smoking man's car, unless pimped and owned by a drug dealer/rapper).

All that said, it would be nice to think that Aston would be careful with production of their baby. But then that was never the objective for their tiddler.

I think the fact that he's thinking of selling is what gave rise to the whinging!

Yes, I agree that, while it would be nice if Aston watched the production figs for V8, it was never going to happen was it? I've always seen it as another 'mass produced' (reletive term) model a la 911.

[Grant3]

Pugsey said:

I think the fact that he's thinking of selling is what gave rise to the whinging!

Who's thinking of selling

Edited to answer my own question. ahhh the chap with the Bentley!! the old grey cells aren't what they used to be!

Edited by Grant3 on Monday 1st September 10:15

[AstonZagato]

I rather agree with the attitude that I've bought it so I have to live with the depreciation. However, I would rather like to think that Aston are holding up their side of the bargain and NOT stuffing the distribution channel with cars. However, the dealer specced cars seem, if anything to be increasing.

Enzo Ferrari was asked what the correct number of a particular model was. His reply was along the lines of "one less than the number of people who want to buy it".

Edited by AstonZagato on Monday 1st September 12:22

[f328nvl]

Pugsey said:

Grant3 said:

Clever prestige car supply is a decent chunk short of demand, Ferrari are actually masters of this in the short term (up to 3 years old anyway or until the next new model!!! ), it allows used values to stay stable & the brand appeal strong, retaining best customer loyalty & best margins in the long term! Of course much depends if Astons new owners are well financed enough & in it for the long term, only time will tell.

Except that my recollection is that if you looked at the accounts of Ferrari (which were published as part of a flotation prospectus) you will find that they lost money on road car manufacture and make money on FI advertising and concord revenues. Ask anyone who has bought a new 612 (or 456/550/575/599 etc) about depreciation and residuals and prepare to weep.

In contrast Aston made about £10m from car sales and 4m-5m from service/repair/modification and licensing of the brand, a stark contrast to the early 1990s when Aston sold about £20m of cars and lost over £23m (again from memory). Of course the reason you have to build cars when demand is weak because a factory is a super-tanker, you can't just stop. One might try to have "updated versions" and "specials" to keep sales ticking over in a market that was weak - just like Aston Martin are doing really.

[Double R]

if your concerns are for depreciation then "invest" (I use this verb in a very looooose way) in a classic Aston

otherwise what has been written here by others is quite correct. Enjoy the car.

[AstonZagato]

f328nvl said:

Pugsey said:

Grant3 said:

Clever prestige car supply is a decent chunk short of demand, Ferrari are actually masters of this in the short term (up to 3 years old anyway or until the next new model!!! ), it allows used values to stay stable & the brand appeal strong, retaining best customer loyalty & best margins in the long term! Of course much depends if Astons new owners are well financed enough & in it for the long term, only time will tell.

Except that my recollection is that if you looked at the accounts of Ferrari (which were published as part of a flotation prospectus) you will find that they lost money on road car manufacture and make money on FI advertising and concord revenues. Ask anyone who has bought a new 612 (or 456/550/575/599 etc) about depreciation and residuals and prepare to weep.

In contrast Aston made about £10m from car sales and 4m-5m from service/repair/modification and licensing of the brand, a stark contrast to the early 1990s when Aston sold about £20m of cars and lost over £23m (again from memory). Of course the reason you have to build cars when demand is weak because a factory is a super-tanker, you can't just stop. One might try to have "updated versions" and "specials" to keep sales ticking over in a market that was weak - just like Aston Martin are doing really.

Yeah, but...

Aston are going to build the Rapide in Austria. Why not put it onto the Gaydon production line to mop up the spare capacity that is coming? Keep the supply/demand tight and then the demand remains stronger as the cost of ownership is lower. Maseratis have gone down like lead balloons and no-one wants them.

Edited by AstonZagato on Monday 1st September 13:37

[bogie]

I will be more than happy if the 4.7 Vantage continues to drop the same as the 4.3, as it means in a couple of years I can change mine for a lightly used one ...staying in an Aston as a daily drive, buying these unused 2-3 yr old cars for near half price and then actually using them seems like a plan and should cost about the same in depreciation as getting a new rep-mobile every 3 years

[Murph7355]

AstonZagato said:

However, I would rather like to think that Aston are holding up their side of the bargain and NOT stuffing the distribution channel with cars....

Without wishing to be too facetious, what bargain? Especially wrt the V8 Vantage (which was always going to be their "volume" model).

And Enzo didn't much like his road car customers.

[AstonZagato]

Murph7355 said:

AstonZagato said:

However, I would rather like to think that Aston are holding up their side of the bargain and NOT stuffing the distribution channel with cars....

Without wishing to be too facetious, what bargain? Especially wrt the V8 Vantage (which was always going to be their "volume" model).

And Enzo didn't much like his road car customers.

I know and agree - they have no obligation other than to make money for their shareholders. It would just be nice (and I think good for the long-term value of the brand) if they tried to protect second hand prices. Trouble is with a buyout, management often value short term revenues above long term value (ie you want to show prospective buyers 3-4 years of strong revenue and profit growth but don't really care if the buyers then find you have saturated the market and sales are going to drop off a cliff as a result).

[bogie]

as I said earlier, I dont think residuals are *that* bad are they? Ive never owned any car thats managed to keep 50% after 3 years so far other than my old Lotuse Elise, so the modern Astons are doing well arnt they?

Just how many models of exotica or sportscar can you think of that are worth say 60% + after 3 years...and actually being used for say 6K miles a year

[Pugsey]

bogie said:

as I said earlier, I dont think residuals are *that* bad are they? Ive never owned any car thats managed to keep 50% after 3 years so far other than my old Lotuse Elise, so the modern Astons are doing well arnt they?

Just how many models of exotica or sportscar can you think of that are worth say 60% + after 3 years...and actually being used for say 6K miles a year

Tend to agree with you there - in fact not sure what some people are really expecting tbo. Try buying a new £25k repmobile, driving out of the showroom, then going straight back and asking 'how much's it worth' THEN you'll find out what depreciation means!

[bogie]

Pugsey said:

bogie said:

as I said earlier, I dont think residuals are *that* bad are they? Ive never owned any car thats managed to keep 50% after 3 years so far other than my old Lotuse Elise, so the modern Astons are doing well arnt they?

Just how many models of exotica or sportscar can you think of that are worth say 60% + after 3 years...and actually being used for say 6K miles a year

Tend to agree with you there - in fact not sure what some people are really expecting tbo. Try buying a new £25k repmobile, driving out of the showroom, then going straight back and asking 'how much's it worth' THEN you'll find out what depreciation means!

yup - I picked up a 5yr old low mile Volvo S60D5 at the weekend, mainly for the GF to commute 500 miles per week in....£25K new, £5.3K I paid for it from a trader...now thats depreciation ! .....if Astons are the same then I guess early Vantages will be like £17-18K in another 2 years ...

... in Autocar this week there were examples of BMWs, Bentleys, Range Rovers etc all worth 50% 1 yr old, let alone 3 years later...if people have 3 yr old Vantages which were like £85K ish, and can still get £45-50K for them, then thats pretty good IMO as a more regular £85K car would be more like £35k trade in.

...so I guess Aston Martin dealers can claim "above average residuals" regardless