More on the DBS "wheel wobble" problem (Rick?)
Discussion
as this issue was never raised in any of the test or press cars I would still think there has been a change either in the build process or component distribution, if it was chassis dynamics this would have been picked up during testing, brakes does seem to be the favourite, but anything that could set up an oscillation could be the route cause such as dampers, coils springs etc, one thing springs to mind is usage all the test cars and press cars are driven more to the extreme, so is it more to temperature related, perhaps a glaze forming on pads or discs, harmonics are very complicated and this is pure speculation, it quite obviously is not down to balance or wheels, and realistically this will be beyond the scope and training of many of the dealer technicians (not through lack of skill or passion but they are trained to find a problem between good and worn or faulty parts], they will have a set protocol and time they can invest in a problem such as this, which for an owner will prove frustrating as it clearly has, I am positive the route cause will be found as Aston do have some of the best in the industry I just wish information, progress and just straight forward communication was more forthcoming, The only advice i really can give is the better quality of information as in specifics that is passed directly back to Aston the better, not verbally or passed via third parties, make notes on specifics, such as road surface, duration of trip, weather conditions, the smallest detail could be the one that makes all the difference, light pressure on the brake etc etc, nobody wants to see something like this,
WobbleGate continues....!
Unfortunately I've had to start taking the next steps now.
Aston Martin advised me to get it fixed at a local AM service centre instead of the supplying dealer, on the basis the skillset was the same and that was the point of having a dealer network. This is despite me raising concerns about exactly what has now happened. However, now, after 6 weeks of my local dealer working with Aston Martin on the problem and no fix in sight, I ask them to take the car back and organise a refund with the original dealer. But.. the original dealer don't want to refund me until they had an opportunity to fix the problem. (I saw this happening but was told it wouldn't when using the local service centre)
Aston Martin also appear to have distanced themselves from the problem too as soon as I requested a refund. Up until now they were very much owning the issue and trying to resolve it.
But...
"Unfortunately, as your contract by law is with the vending Dealer and as all Dealers are independent traders in their own right we are not in the position to dictate a policy of acceptance to your request to take your vehicle back directly."
They know the car is faulty, they know they have not found a fix working with my local dealer, but they won't call the original dealer and say 'Hey give this customer his money back or offer a rebuild, our product appears to be faulty and we've been unsuccessful fixing it'. I find that very strange that we're talking about legal entities at this stage. For me its an Aston DBS that doesn't work properly, regardless of which dealer supplied it, AM should really take some responsibility (in my opinion) and help me.
On a good note, the MD of the original dealer called me today and wanted the story from the start. He sounded more positive in helping me than the previous contact I had which was really just a series of 'without prejudice' emails! I'm hoping for good news tomorrow...but..
...a word of advice, if you get a problem with your new car, whatever the marque, make sure you ship it back to the original dealer as opposed to relying on the service network regardless of what advice you receive. A refund would have been much easier if I had shipped it back to them in the first place and had not listened to re-assurance regarding the dealer networks abilities and my ability to get a refund if the fix didn't work locally.
Unfortunately I've had to start taking the next steps now.
Aston Martin advised me to get it fixed at a local AM service centre instead of the supplying dealer, on the basis the skillset was the same and that was the point of having a dealer network. This is despite me raising concerns about exactly what has now happened. However, now, after 6 weeks of my local dealer working with Aston Martin on the problem and no fix in sight, I ask them to take the car back and organise a refund with the original dealer. But.. the original dealer don't want to refund me until they had an opportunity to fix the problem. (I saw this happening but was told it wouldn't when using the local service centre)
Aston Martin also appear to have distanced themselves from the problem too as soon as I requested a refund. Up until now they were very much owning the issue and trying to resolve it.
But...
"Unfortunately, as your contract by law is with the vending Dealer and as all Dealers are independent traders in their own right we are not in the position to dictate a policy of acceptance to your request to take your vehicle back directly."
They know the car is faulty, they know they have not found a fix working with my local dealer, but they won't call the original dealer and say 'Hey give this customer his money back or offer a rebuild, our product appears to be faulty and we've been unsuccessful fixing it'. I find that very strange that we're talking about legal entities at this stage. For me its an Aston DBS that doesn't work properly, regardless of which dealer supplied it, AM should really take some responsibility (in my opinion) and help me.
On a good note, the MD of the original dealer called me today and wanted the story from the start. He sounded more positive in helping me than the previous contact I had which was really just a series of 'without prejudice' emails! I'm hoping for good news tomorrow...but..
...a word of advice, if you get a problem with your new car, whatever the marque, make sure you ship it back to the original dealer as opposed to relying on the service network regardless of what advice you receive. A refund would have been much easier if I had shipped it back to them in the first place and had not listened to re-assurance regarding the dealer networks abilities and my ability to get a refund if the fix didn't work locally.
Quick update on mine. Car's been with the dealer for a bit. They agree with me, suspecting the brakes. They have taken precise measurements of the brakes to send to Aston Martin Technical. Apparently they have found some numbers that look "out". Will keep you up to date.
In the meantime the Larini has been fitted. It changes the sound a fair bit, it sounds like a jet fighter now!
In the meantime the Larini has been fitted. It changes the sound a fair bit, it sounds like a jet fighter now!
Piss poor on Aston's part this. Have you escalated within Aston itself whilst progressing with the original dealer?
I guess the supplying dealer will lose their profit in the car, unless Aston compensate them for it (which is highly doubtful judging by the tone they've taken).
Have you asked for a suitable loaner?
I guess the supplying dealer will lose their profit in the car, unless Aston compensate them for it (which is highly doubtful judging by the tone they've taken).
Have you asked for a suitable loaner?
I picked the car up from the dealer who has been working on it with AM this morning. They asked me to drive the car once again as it was now the best one they had driven. I couldn't believe it, it was exactly the same!! I had pins and needles in my forearms after a 10 minute drive. I asked my business partner to jump in the car to witness it and to make sure I wasn't going crazy.
I've just loaded it onto a truck now and its heading back to the supplying dealer in exchange for a refund (tbc). Such as a shame as I still think its the most beautiful car on the road, or off it
An issue I now face is that the car has always been at its most problematic at 95mph and the original dealer just mentioned that they may not be able to authorise a test drive at that speed due to legal reasons!
I just hope I don't get it sent back with some don't go over 70mph advice!
I'm wondering why they just don't refund it and let me go and buy something else. I'm now £160k down with no car
I haven't asked for a replacement vehicle yet, perhaps I should. I did try and escalate it to Dr Bez, via his PA, but got a blanket response from the customer service team.
I've just loaded it onto a truck now and its heading back to the supplying dealer in exchange for a refund (tbc). Such as a shame as I still think its the most beautiful car on the road, or off it
An issue I now face is that the car has always been at its most problematic at 95mph and the original dealer just mentioned that they may not be able to authorise a test drive at that speed due to legal reasons!
I just hope I don't get it sent back with some don't go over 70mph advice!
I'm wondering why they just don't refund it and let me go and buy something else. I'm now £160k down with no car
I haven't asked for a replacement vehicle yet, perhaps I should. I did try and escalate it to Dr Bez, via his PA, but got a blanket response from the customer service team.
skel00 said:
An issue I now face is that the car has always been at its most problematic at 95mph and the original dealer just mentioned that they may not be able to authorise a test drive at that speed due to legal reasons!
I just hope I don't get it sent back with some don't go over 70mph advice!
Perhaps point out that AM have their own test track at Gaydon that would presumably allow them to test at 95mph .... I just hope I don't get it sent back with some don't go over 70mph advice!
If you love the Aston, it would seem to be apparent that not all cars suffer. So you could ask for a refund OR another car, but the latter ONLY on the understanding you test it first, and have a grace period of 1mth where if the problem comes onto that car, you revert to refund...
Tell them you only use it at that speed abroad or on track. Hence they can easily test it the same way (as mentioned above, they have a track!).
Tell them you only use it at that speed abroad or on track. Hence they can easily test it the same way (as mentioned above, they have a track!).
skel00 said:
An issue I now face is that the car has always been at its most problematic at 95mph and the original dealer just mentioned that they may not be able to authorise a test drive at that speed due to legal reasons!
I just hope I don't get it sent back with some don't go over 70mph advice!
To be frank, that's their problem not yours. The car is supposedly capable of 180+, therefore if it cannot even be driven at 95, it is not fit for purpose.I just hope I don't get it sent back with some don't go over 70mph advice!
It is also quite feasible that you would want to use the vehicle on overseas trips that take in unrestricted sections of autobahn.
As said elsewhere, they have Gaydon, they also use Millbrook extensively - I know because I've been there with them, so don't take any bull from them about not exceeding 70. If they even go down that road, seriously, just stop them in their tracks and say fine, give me that in writing and i'll have you for the car not being fit for purpose also!
If you feel that you feel that the dealer has been unable to resolve your problem, then may I suggest you address a letter, marked private and confidential to Miss Lindsay Black, at Gaydon. She is the UK General Manager and always sorts problems out very swiftly, and the dealer network seem terrified of her!
Hmmm. Is your car being used on daily basis? Is there a chance that this is due to tyre flat spotting? You might want to get the car down to a decent tyre and wheel specialist just to ensure they aren't distorted.
I speak from experience as it happened on my humble daily driver.... The vibration just got worse and worse with speed and it was eventually traced to a defective tyre...
I speak from experience as it happened on my humble daily driver.... The vibration just got worse and worse with speed and it was eventually traced to a defective tyre...
Thanks for the support guys, I'm taking on board any advice I can get at this stage. The car has had new tires during the fix period at the local dealer along with new brakes etc but nothing has worked. Before I owned it, I was told it was the CEO of Grange's car by the salesman. Looking at the first registration date and the date I bought it, he'd put 400 miles on the clock in its first 4 weeks before discounting it and selling it to me, so it shouldn't have been subject to flats pots on this basis.
It doesn't sound like any of them are looking at the problem holistically. There can't be too many things that would cause this problem, and they must have availability of cars with/without it so that they can benchmark.
Wheels and tyres have been changed, brakes have been changed. What else can there be? Geometry? Bearings? Steering rack/wheel and its mounts? Suspension fixings?
You wouldn't have thought it'd take months to find the source!
Keep pushing them once you've decided what you really want to do
Wheels and tyres have been changed, brakes have been changed. What else can there be? Geometry? Bearings? Steering rack/wheel and its mounts? Suspension fixings?
You wouldn't have thought it'd take months to find the source!
Keep pushing them once you've decided what you really want to do
Of those who've had their cars in to be fixed have there been any harmonics testing done? It's quite a common thing to do on race & development cars.
I would have thought Aston would have been a lot more pro-active about this, it's obviously a known issue, put an engineering team on it for a week & I'm sure they could find the issue easily?
Have they replaced the tyres with the same make & type every time or has a different brand been fitted?
I've also seen something similar with brake pad toe (the leading edge should touch first) if it does'nt you get a resonance ususally only when braking BUT if there is even a small residual line pressure the pads can touch & cause vibration. MY bet would be something like this.
I would have thought Aston would have been a lot more pro-active about this, it's obviously a known issue, put an engineering team on it for a week & I'm sure they could find the issue easily?
Have they replaced the tyres with the same make & type every time or has a different brand been fitted?
I've also seen something similar with brake pad toe (the leading edge should touch first) if it does'nt you get a resonance ususally only when braking BUT if there is even a small residual line pressure the pads can touch & cause vibration. MY bet would be something like this.
Right, update on my car. They tried with different wheels/tyres, no difference. Subsequently, Aston have authorized a brand new set of pads and discs for the brakes, based on the measurements sent to them by my dealer. This will take a while to arrive so now we wait and see. For now I have the car back and the larini is fitted, and I must say I've missed it and its good to have it back!
Bizarre update on my car. Got it back from the dealer while they wait for the new brakes to arrive... Anyways, inexplicably the wobble appears to have entirely disappeared! I tested up to 270 metric leptons on the same old test route. Nothing has changed on the car except the wheels have come off a few times for testing... So I've asked them to mark precisely where each wheel is and put them back precisely the same when the brakes are done. The brakes themselves are shuddering worse than ever.
Corvette ZR1. Carbon ceramic discs like DBS. Same vibration problem. Coincidence?
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-corvette-zr1/25...
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-corvette-zr1/25...
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