Aston Martin advice from Bamford Rose independent specialist

Aston Martin advice from Bamford Rose independent specialist

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Discussion

Ex Boy Racer

1,033 posts

127 months

Friday 16th February
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What is the final BHP figure on the V12S with the BR exhaust? I guess it must be well over 600?

CraigV12V

289 posts

88 months

Friday 16th February
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Ex Boy Racer said:
What is the final BHP figure on the V12S with the BR exhaust? I guess it must be well over 600?
Well its 565 allegedly for a V12VS although there is some doubt as to whether its is actually quite that high at the wheel. But the mods I had done are belived to generate circa 70BHP extra so you would expect to be at 600+ maybe as high as 625-635? I am going to put mine on a dyno in near future with BR in attendance. I'll report the results in due course.

steveway

591 posts

19 months

Friday 16th February
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CraigV12V said:
Well its 565 allegedly for a V12VS although there is some doubt as to whether its is actually quite that high at the wheel. But the mods I had done are belived to generate circa 70BHP extra so you would expect to be at 600+ maybe as high as 625-635? I am going to put mine on a dyno in near future with BR in attendance. I'll report the results in due course.
Do BR have a dyno? if so might get them just to check mine as well

karatemaserati

14 posts

71 months

Sunday 18th February
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is there a price difference between upgrading the 450bhp and 470bhp db9's to 520bhp?

MarkM3Evoplus

345 posts

135 months

Monday 19th February
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German mag tested a V12VS and put it on a dyno. They stated it had 533bhp at the flywheel, but don't know what the wheel figure was so can't say what conversion factor was used.
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klaiberp

35 posts

135 months

Monday 19th February
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steveway said:
Do you have V12V or V8V, would be nice to know what you think, although its too late to change my mind but then why would I when its going from 510 to 600bhp smile
steveway, I can only say that you will not regret it for one second. I drove around all weekend with a grin and the sound is brilliant.
Thanks again to Mike and the lads for a great job. And the good thing about doing this now was that there were signs of deterioration on the Primary Cat's that were replaced. So I feel even better about having the manifolds replaced clap

steveway

591 posts

19 months

Monday 19th February
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klaiberp said:
steveway, I can only say that you will not regret it for one second. I drove around all weekend with a grin and the sound is brilliant.
Thanks again to Mike and the lads for a great job. And the good thing about doing this now was that there were signs of deterioration on the Primary Cat's that were replaced. So I feel even better about having the manifolds replaced clap
That's good news, did you go for non baffle cats?

klaiberp

35 posts

135 months

Tuesday 20th February
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steveway said:
That's good news, did you go for non baffle cats?
I am sure they were the baffled cats as Mike recommends. I left it to their recommendation and in my opinion it does not need anymore noise.

steveway

591 posts

19 months

Tuesday 20th February
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klaiberp said:
I am sure they were the baffled cats as Mike recommends. I left it to their recommendation and in my opinion it does not need anymore noise.
Ok, I am going with the non baffled but mike says they can be changed if I feel they are too noisy

BamfordMike

1,155 posts

92 months

Tuesday 20th February
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steveway said:
klaiberp said:
I am sure they were the baffled cats as Mike recommends. I left it to their recommendation and in my opinion it does not need anymore noise.
Ok, I am going with the non baffled but mike says they can be changed if I feel they are too noisy
Klaiberp had baffle cats, and yes, if a tad too noisy we can fit baffled cats for you Steve, but no baffle on a V12V is Very Loud, however there is always silent mode. The problem on no baffle cats is quite a few reported loud mode was too loud and quiet mode was too quiet, the baffle cats return good noise level in permanent loud only needing quiet mode for a motorway cruise or early morning cold start. But it’s all personal opinion / preference, we’ve had customers with no baffle cats complain it’s not loud enough!

For comparison, one of each


BamfordMike

1,155 posts

92 months

Tuesday 20th February
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klaiberp said:
And the good thing about doing this now was that there were signs of deterioration on the Primary Cat's that were replaced. So I feel even better about having the manifolds replaced clap
Indeed, the primary cats showed signs of surface erosion and rolling over of leading face edges of matrix. Both conditions will lead to overheating and eventual failure. There was no explanation as to the cause of why, just like no explanation as to the failure of CraigV12V’s cat and subsequent engine damage. Quite alarming considering only 8kmiles on your car whereas a 450 BHP cat with no misfire looks fresh at 80k. Looking at manifold / catalyst it’s practically the exact same part on a 450 BHP V12 compared to 565 BHP, perhaps the increased gas flow / temps are too much for the brick volume to handle without a damaging exotherm over temp.

Good / normal cat matrix:



From your V12VS







The final pic shows cat matrix coming away from edge of mounting can which is the only supportive structure, so all failure modes considered these cats were very close to failure. Tapping cat on floor resulted in some debris drop into primary pipe.

Primary cat failure on other V12 Engines only occurs if there is something out of service (coil / breather circuit resulting in misfire). On V12VS / 565 engines cat failure for whatever reason seems to occur when all components are within service.


steveway

591 posts

19 months

Tuesday 20th February
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Hi Mike, thanks for the update, lets go for the baffled cats then, don't want it to be over silly.

steve

BamfordMike

1,155 posts

92 months

Tuesday 20th February
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MarkM3Evoplus said:
German mag tested a V12VS and put it on a dyno. They stated it had 533bhp at the flywheel, but don't know what the wheel figure was so can't say what conversion factor was used.
Makes sense. Across a number of 565 motors with the old Ford ECU (Vanquish 6 speed) and all subsequent Bosch ECU cars, we’ve not dyno’d a 565 Motor above 545 yet. Our kit is approx 70/80 BHP delta. What baffles me is an AMR or power pack car is 603 BHP, with primary cats fitted??The vehicle certification agency homologation test does perfectly legitimately allow for on the day calculator power, clearly the German dyno just reports what it sees and is absent of such calculations

Emilio Largo

183 posts

46 months

Tuesday 20th February
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Mike, do these primary cat failures only occur on V12 engines or is it a (how big?) problem on V8 engines, too?

BamfordMike

1,155 posts

92 months

Tuesday 20th February
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Emilio Largo said:
Mike, do these primary cat failures only occur on V12 engines or is it a (how big?) problem on V8 engines, too?
Cat failure on V8 is extremely rare occurrence, I wouldn’t be concerned about cats failing on V8 unless engine has significant misfire combined with prolonged use in that misfiring state

Cockernee

3,030 posts

95 months

Wednesday 21st February
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steveway said:
Hi Mike, thanks for the update, lets go for the baffled cats then, don't want it to be over silly.

steve
That is the correct decision, the original Lance was without baffles originally and it was just way too much. The baffled option is perfect, hardly subtle, but not quite ASBO either.

Ex Boy Racer

1,033 posts

127 months

Wednesday 21st February
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The cat situation is quite alarming.
I would get my V12 updated now but I assume that it would negate the warranty. is that the case?
In many ways AM would be smart to allow it as it might save them a fortune in new engines...

Ex Boy Racer

1,033 posts

127 months

Wednesday 21st February
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One other question...
If the upgraded V12's give 600bhp or so due to the new inlets and titanium exhausts, would the BR manifolds increase that to 670bhp? Now, that would be very interesting!

BamfordMike

1,155 posts

92 months

Wednesday 21st February
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klaiberp said:
I drove around all weekend with a grin and the sound is brilliant.
clap
A few pics of the hardware responsible for the grin!

The airflow increase across the speed range was similar to CraigV12V’s result but slightly different acceleration times were recorded.
In 4th Gear from 1500 rpm to 7000 rpm (25-113mph) we recorded 12.22 seconds std with modified reducing to 10.92 - a 1.3 second improvement. CraigV12Vs time was 11.4 down to 10.4. But the end result is the same, in Sport mode with exhaust valves loud the drive is Epic!






CraigV12V

289 posts

88 months

Wednesday 21st February
quotequote all
BamfordMike said:
klaiberp said:
I drove around all weekend with a grin and the sound is brilliant.
clap
A few pics of the hardware responsible for the grin!

The airflow increase across the speed range was similar to CraigV12V’s result but slightly different acceleration times were recorded.
In 4th Gear from 1500 rpm to 7000 rpm (25-113mph) we recorded 12.22 seconds std with modified reducing to 10.92 - a 1.3 second improvement. CraigV12Vs time was 11.4 down to 10.4. But the end result is the same, in Sport mode with exhaust valves loud the drive is Epic!
That 0.52 seconds was down to the Tesco Momentum99 Super Unleaded!!