What car for cheap thrills?
Discussion
Right, a trip to the 'reading room' (aka Borders) today and a flick through the buying stats in the backs of the mags revealed that everything in my price range is either cheap to run, but fragile, prone to unreliability and falling to bits; or slightly more expensive to run day-to-day (thirst, servicing, insurance), but much more reliable and far less prone to breaking down.
Anyone know of: a RWD sports coupe, built '80s-onwards (don't really want to drive anything much older than me), that is cheap to run in terms of fuel use, servicing costs and insurance premiums, yet that doesn't feel the need to inexplicably refuse to start in the morning, or have a habit of disintegrating.
As it is, my three 'production' choices - X1/9, MR2, 280ZX - have both rather large pros and cons on their sides, and with kit cars you can't really go in looking for anything specific - just look for bargains - so that choice is variable depending on what's in the mags.
If there isn't one car that fits the above description, I'll keep the choices as they are, but if there's something that knocks them all into a cocked hat that just hasn't crossed my mind yet, I'd be grateful if anyone could jog my memory.
There were a few other ideas, but IMO they're scraping the barrel a bit in terms of reliability, image and so on:
-Alfa Romeo GTV2000 (like the X1/9 in terms of potential problems, but even more expensive to sort and harder to find)
-Audi GT Quattro (Essentially the Quattro Turbo without the, err, turbo. Only problem is the parts prices and the fact that no-one wants them, so they're worth sod-all)
-BMW 628CSi (great looking car, but huge expense on all fronts except the buying price?)
-Ford Capri (Rust, cheap'n'nasty feel all round, prices bottomed out all round, people didn't look after them)
-(Same goes for the) Ford XR4i
-(And the) Opel Manta & Monza
-Reliant Scimitar GTE (The ones still new enough to be usable are mainly automatics and overpriced - or maybe I just don't have the money for the best)
-and I couldn't bring myself to spend money on a Scimitar SS1
-And then there's the earlier RWD Toyota Celicas, Celica Supras and Supra 3.0s. My Dad would probably never speak to me again (he thinks they're thug's cars), but I'm not so sure about what the running costs and insurance premiums would be like for them, especially considering the 1.6-litre nom-asp MR2 has the highest insurance quotes of all the original choices.
Anyone know of: a RWD sports coupe, built '80s-onwards (don't really want to drive anything much older than me), that is cheap to run in terms of fuel use, servicing costs and insurance premiums, yet that doesn't feel the need to inexplicably refuse to start in the morning, or have a habit of disintegrating.
As it is, my three 'production' choices - X1/9, MR2, 280ZX - have both rather large pros and cons on their sides, and with kit cars you can't really go in looking for anything specific - just look for bargains - so that choice is variable depending on what's in the mags.
If there isn't one car that fits the above description, I'll keep the choices as they are, but if there's something that knocks them all into a cocked hat that just hasn't crossed my mind yet, I'd be grateful if anyone could jog my memory.
There were a few other ideas, but IMO they're scraping the barrel a bit in terms of reliability, image and so on:
-Alfa Romeo GTV2000 (like the X1/9 in terms of potential problems, but even more expensive to sort and harder to find)
-Audi GT Quattro (Essentially the Quattro Turbo without the, err, turbo. Only problem is the parts prices and the fact that no-one wants them, so they're worth sod-all)
-BMW 628CSi (great looking car, but huge expense on all fronts except the buying price?)
-Ford Capri (Rust, cheap'n'nasty feel all round, prices bottomed out all round, people didn't look after them)
-(Same goes for the) Ford XR4i
-(And the) Opel Manta & Monza
-Reliant Scimitar GTE (The ones still new enough to be usable are mainly automatics and overpriced - or maybe I just don't have the money for the best)
-and I couldn't bring myself to spend money on a Scimitar SS1
-And then there's the earlier RWD Toyota Celicas, Celica Supras and Supra 3.0s. My Dad would probably never speak to me again (he thinks they're thug's cars), but I'm not so sure about what the running costs and insurance premiums would be like for them, especially considering the 1.6-litre nom-asp MR2 has the highest insurance quotes of all the original choices.
The DJ 27 said:
Can I suggest you buy Practical Performance Car next month. There's going to be an article on putting a Vauxhall XE engine into a Manta, and how to do it in a weekend. Can't cost that much, surely
I'll have a look, but I think my problem would be keeping the rest of the Manta together while I'm at it!
I prefer the idea of forced induction, personally, preferably a supercharger, as it involves attaching something to the engine, rather than all the problems associated with taking an engine out (having a car with no engine on your drive for a start!)
I'm not totally convinced by the reliability of the rest of the Manta either. Most of them are a heap of rust by now, and for the price of a replacement side window, you could buy a whole new Manta.
v8thunder said:
ST165 Celica GT4?? Not a clue how the insurance will be though.
All GT4s are IG20, and the ones I could afford from that era are FWD and look like jellymoulds.
There has never been a FWD GT-Four mate. They're all WRC 4wd turbo nutter jobs.
And mine is the fastest of the lot, and IG 17. Don't ask why.
However, ST165s are very old now, and take some serious looking after. In stock trim, not quick.
ST185s understeer for Japan, although it can be solved. 3K for a decent one. The CS/RC varient is the one you really want, and they command a premium.
ST205 is probably out of budget.
I don't think it will do what you want. Mk1 MR2 still gets my vote if you can find a good one.
Gaz, I don't mean your type of Supra, but the Celica Supra of 1982-1986.
You're right - it does cost more to run on a day-to-day basis than the MR2 (insurance, fuel, tax etc), but it's more reliable from what I gather, and more to the point, the parts cost less should the thing break down.
Anyway, I've heard some offputting things about these old hi-tech Toyotas that I'm not hearing about the more basic old Datsuns and Fords. I know this is Jap Chat, and you obviously favour your Toyotas here, but I'm beginning to wonder whether it's worth buying a MK1 MR2 if, when the engine breaks, it'll end up costing me a fortune to fix and will need so much specialist attention the resulting open-wallet surgery would have bought me a good Capri Laser or something.
I think I need to add 'basic mechanicals' to the checklist too, which, unfortunately, would probably cancel out the old MR2. The 280ZX is still at the top of the list, although the Capri and XR4i have nosed back in there (mainly because my Dad used to have an XR4x4 and he loved it).
You're right - it does cost more to run on a day-to-day basis than the MR2 (insurance, fuel, tax etc), but it's more reliable from what I gather, and more to the point, the parts cost less should the thing break down.
Anyway, I've heard some offputting things about these old hi-tech Toyotas that I'm not hearing about the more basic old Datsuns and Fords. I know this is Jap Chat, and you obviously favour your Toyotas here, but I'm beginning to wonder whether it's worth buying a MK1 MR2 if, when the engine breaks, it'll end up costing me a fortune to fix and will need so much specialist attention the resulting open-wallet surgery would have bought me a good Capri Laser or something.
I think I need to add 'basic mechanicals' to the checklist too, which, unfortunately, would probably cancel out the old MR2. The 280ZX is still at the top of the list, although the Capri and XR4i have nosed back in there (mainly because my Dad used to have an XR4x4 and he loved it).
Right - never mind 'bout that then. I'm not going to bother with either of the Fords either - to be honest, an XR4i is still a Sierra, and Capris might be good to drive, but the marketplace is a bit odd regarding the market - the 1.6s and 2-litres are banger value, but they are just that - bangers, whilst the V6 versions are better, but the fact that they're looked after better means they attract much higher prices - the ones in my range would be a bit rusty, with rattly engines. Compared to the Datsun 280ZX, they don't seem such good value.
However, some research on the 'net revealed the full extent of Opel's range and the sort of prices expected. In short, the best version of the Manta - the GT/E Exclusive, with leather seats, leather-bound steering wheel, the fastest 2.2-litre engine, electric windows, sunroof and mirrors and an upholstered dashboard - comes in well under budget, and their increasing rarity only means they'll gain value, and they can be uprated with just about every engine in the GM range, and they remind me of Camaros. I'd still prefer a 280ZX though, and you never know what the kit car market has in store.
(but I'd get rid of the spoiler and side-skirts), or
[pic] http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/649000-649999/649366_4.jpg[/pic]
(but without those bling-bling wheels)
Decisions, decisions...
>> Edited by v8thunder on Monday 31st January 20:15
However, some research on the 'net revealed the full extent of Opel's range and the sort of prices expected. In short, the best version of the Manta - the GT/E Exclusive, with leather seats, leather-bound steering wheel, the fastest 2.2-litre engine, electric windows, sunroof and mirrors and an upholstered dashboard - comes in well under budget, and their increasing rarity only means they'll gain value, and they can be uprated with just about every engine in the GM range, and they remind me of Camaros. I'd still prefer a 280ZX though, and you never know what the kit car market has in store.
(but I'd get rid of the spoiler and side-skirts), or
[pic] http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/649000-649999/649366_4.jpg[/pic]
(but without those bling-bling wheels)
Decisions, decisions...
>> Edited by v8thunder on Monday 31st January 20:15
Well, the 1.8s are usually under a grand, but they're not much cop. They may be RWD but they're getting a bit rusty now and will never be worth much.
However, the Manta GTs are found from a grand upwards. There's the GT, the GT/E (has four round headlights), and the GT/E Exclusive, with the special lights, leather interior and the fastest engine. They will take BMW 3-series of the same era to the cleaners!
If you look really hard, you'll find the daddy - the Manta GT/E Exclusive Irmscher 400. Believe it or not, this car you'll pay £2k for in mint condition at best, is in fact an ultra-rare Group B homologation special rally car. It has the 2.2-litre engine and all the Irmscher aftermarket tweaks and is bound to go up in value (also, the Irmscher mods can be retro-fitted to a GT/E Exclusive).
The reason why you've probably never heard of it in the Group B context was because it was actually banned! What happened was, Opel's standard Group B contender, the Ascona 400, was actually half way through the 1985 championship when Opel suddenly decided to release its successor onto the rally stage. Of course this was against the rules (imagine if, halfway through a rally Mitsubishi replaced the Evo VIII with the Evo IX), so it only did one rally - the Sahara, which it won - before Opel were forced to re-introduce the ageing Ascona. Of course, Group B was cancelled during 1986, so the Manta 400 never really got to shine, and it's been unfairly forgotten.
Point is, a car as good as that can't remain a secret for too long. if I can find a mint Irmscher, or even a GT/E Exclusive that I can fit the Irscher mods (2.2-litre engine and box-arches) to, surely it can only go up in price.
I think Mantas look best in graphite grey with red decals personally, but all the rally cars were white with the colours of the German flag in stripes under the side windows, so that is 'the' scheme to have one in, if it's found.
280ZX still looks damn good though.
However, the Manta GTs are found from a grand upwards. There's the GT, the GT/E (has four round headlights), and the GT/E Exclusive, with the special lights, leather interior and the fastest engine. They will take BMW 3-series of the same era to the cleaners!
If you look really hard, you'll find the daddy - the Manta GT/E Exclusive Irmscher 400. Believe it or not, this car you'll pay £2k for in mint condition at best, is in fact an ultra-rare Group B homologation special rally car. It has the 2.2-litre engine and all the Irmscher aftermarket tweaks and is bound to go up in value (also, the Irmscher mods can be retro-fitted to a GT/E Exclusive).
The reason why you've probably never heard of it in the Group B context was because it was actually banned! What happened was, Opel's standard Group B contender, the Ascona 400, was actually half way through the 1985 championship when Opel suddenly decided to release its successor onto the rally stage. Of course this was against the rules (imagine if, halfway through a rally Mitsubishi replaced the Evo VIII with the Evo IX), so it only did one rally - the Sahara, which it won - before Opel were forced to re-introduce the ageing Ascona. Of course, Group B was cancelled during 1986, so the Manta 400 never really got to shine, and it's been unfairly forgotten.
Point is, a car as good as that can't remain a secret for too long. if I can find a mint Irmscher, or even a GT/E Exclusive that I can fit the Irscher mods (2.2-litre engine and box-arches) to, surely it can only go up in price.
I think Mantas look best in graphite grey with red decals personally, but all the rally cars were white with the colours of the German flag in stripes under the side windows, so that is 'the' scheme to have one in, if it's found.
280ZX still looks damn good though.
When I said you never know what the kit car sellers are going to throw up, this is the sort of thing I mean - there's one on Ebay currently going for £500. Based on a Capri, looks like the result of an affair between a DeLorean DMC-12 and a Lamborghini Miura, and can probably be made fairly fast and good-handling with the right Ford tweaks:
The one in Clockwork Orange was an Adams Probe 16 (the one the were going to restore on Top Gear). No, from the top, the 'gullwing' is an Eagle SS2, based on a 2-litre Cortina, the 'canopy' is a Nova (!
!), in this case based on a Porsche 912, and the bottom one is an Avante, using the same chassis as the Nova but adapted for mid-engined Alfa Romeo 33 1.7 boxer power.
Thing is, all can be bought from people who don't have a clue for peanuts, and sold to '70s/'80s throwbacks in the know for £££s, and while I'm at it, they're viable daily drivers that are fun to own and drive too. And let's face it - you'll never see one coming the other way, will you!
On similar lines, the Eagle 2+2C:
>> Edited by v8thunder on Wednesday 2nd February 02:23
!), in this case based on a Porsche 912, and the bottom one is an Avante, using the same chassis as the Nova but adapted for mid-engined Alfa Romeo 33 1.7 boxer power. Thing is, all can be bought from people who don't have a clue for peanuts, and sold to '70s/'80s throwbacks in the know for £££s, and while I'm at it, they're viable daily drivers that are fun to own and drive too. And let's face it - you'll never see one coming the other way, will you!
On similar lines, the Eagle 2+2C:
>> Edited by v8thunder on Wednesday 2nd February 02:23
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