Toyota GT86/Subaru BRZ: overrated or underrated gem?
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
It actually makes pretty good torque though. I know the curve is dreadful looking, I suspect due to emissions or some reason.
But the key thing is, PEAK torque might be 6400rpm, but it makes pretty much the same torque at 2500rpm too.
150ft0lb @ 2500rpm is pretty good. And not far off the PEAK figure of the turbocharged Nissan posted above.
Logically all the evidence suggests (to me at least) that there is a torque limiter in place for 1st and probably 2nd gear. Which is restricting off the line performance.
Or - with low grip tyres and only 47% of the weight on the rears - it's got crap traction off the line. It would be interesting to figure it with really sticky tyres.But the key thing is, PEAK torque might be 6400rpm, but it makes pretty much the same torque at 2500rpm too.
150ft0lb @ 2500rpm is pretty good. And not far off the PEAK figure of the turbocharged Nissan posted above.
Logically all the evidence suggests (to me at least) that there is a torque limiter in place for 1st and probably 2nd gear. Which is restricting off the line performance.
cerb4.5lee said:
I adored my S14a 200sx and the GT86 really reminds me of that for sure. I loved the S13 in your photo too but I've never had a go in one of those sadly.
You are right about the fuel though and once I'd modded mine a bit it used to drink like a fish...because I couldn't stop myself from putting my foot down!
The recipe of the GT86 I admire so much but it definitely needs a Turbo or super charger on it for me.
My S13 was awesome though. Bought at auction for £250 and looked mint, no rust at all. It looked 100% stock, but I suspect it may have had something done to it. It was f'ing quick considering the claimed power output. It would walk all over an FTO or e46 330i and quite happily keep up with an XKR and RS4 (all straight line stuff as in match acceleration).
Probably shouldn't have sold it tbh.
300bhp/ton said:
I suspect it may have had something done to it. It was f'ing quick considering the claimed power output. It would walk all over an FTO or e46 330i and quite happily keep up with an XKR and RS4 (all straight line stuff as in match acceleration).
Really, just may have had something done to it, do you think?
Both of those would leave a standard one for dead.
300bhp/ton said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I adored my S14a 200sx and the GT86 really reminds me of that for sure. I loved the S13 in your photo too but I've never had a go in one of those sadly.
You are right about the fuel though and once I'd modded mine a bit it used to drink like a fish...because I couldn't stop myself from putting my foot down!
The recipe of the GT86 I admire so much but it definitely needs a Turbo or super charger on it for me.
My S13 was awesome though. Bought at auction for £250 and looked mint, no rust at all. It looked 100% stock, but I suspect it may have had something done to it. It was f'ing quick considering the claimed power output. It would walk all over an FTO or e46 330i and quite happily keep up with an XKR and RS4 (all straight line stuff as in match acceleration).
Probably shouldn't have sold it tbh.
I had loads of fun in mine once I'd fettled it a bit and it used to surprise quite a few cars(they look quite ordinary), I roughly timed it at 0 to 60 in 5 seconds dead and it was quicker than my mates stage 1(running about 270bhp) Saff cossie.
I recall a few traffic light grand prix victories!(Lotus Elise/S2000/300bhp R33 Skyline/Mk 1 Focus RS). It would easily keep up with a E46 M3 and I even remember staying pretty close to a 911 Carrera 4 back then. Where I lived at the time everyone seemed to be up for some fun and I miss those days!
I did get done off the line by a MR2 Turbo running 260bhp because that gripped so well but once mine hooked up I got right behind him again. I did get turned over by a 350Z on the motorway just before I sold it, and I think it was starting to feel its years of me thrashing the life out of it and the next owner blew the turbo up on it after only 2 weeks!
I seriously miss that car big time, so many good memories of it.
Everyone that had a go in it loved it and they couldn't believe how quick it was. 300bhp/ton said:
The 164hp S13 in the road test above is almost significantly quicker to 60mph, but is actually slower to 100mph and with a lower 1/4 mile trap speed and slower ET too.
If watching a drag race between the two, the S13 would pull away at the start and the GT86 would reel it in just before the 1/8 mile and then pull ahead.
The S13 was on 195/60's vs 215/45's for the GT86 (tyres), so arguably had less traction and only 12ft lb more torque and a lot less HP.
I think you might be looking at different road tests than the Autocar ones 300, maybe American mags?If watching a drag race between the two, the S13 would pull away at the start and the GT86 would reel it in just before the 1/8 mile and then pull ahead.
The S13 was on 195/60's vs 215/45's for the GT86 (tyres), so arguably had less traction and only 12ft lb more torque and a lot less HP.
The way I’m reading it is the old S13 is quicker to 60, 100, 120, over the ss1/4 mile, over the standing Km, 30-70 through gears......and matches the GT86 on top speed
All with skinnier tyres and over 30bho less
S14 with same quoted power as GT86 is a fair bit faster
otolith said:
300bhp/ton said:
I suspect it may have had something done to it. It was f'ing quick considering the claimed power output. It would walk all over an FTO or e46 330i and quite happily keep up with an XKR and RS4 (all straight line stuff as in match acceleration).
Really, just may have had something done to it, do you think?Both of those would leave a standard one for dead.
But you'd think there would be some obvious sign of mods.
Standard wheels, exhaust, intake, etc.
I ran it for a year or so. And sold it for something like £1400 (not bad considering it cost £250). It did drink quite a bit of oil, but it didn't smoke. But that might just have been how I drove it.
Only real reason I sold it was to finish off my TR7 V8 with a new carb, big cam and some external trim/styling bits. The TR7 made 230hp on the rollers (flywheel est). But was never as speedy as the 200SX.
Edited by 300bhp/ton on Wednesday 17th July 09:49
cerb4.5lee said:
The recipe of the GT86 I admire so much but it definitely needs a Turbo or super charger on it for me.
I know someone with a supercharged one. The transformation from stock is a revelation.cerb4.5lee said:
I did get done off the line by a MR2 Turbo running 260bhp because that gripped so well but once mine hooked up I got right behind him again.
A MR2 turbo will beat many higher powered cars at launch. The weight transfer just adds to the already favourable distribution.otolith said:
Or - with low grip tyres and only 47% of the weight on the rears - it's got crap traction off the line. It would be interesting to figure it with really sticky tyres.
In the dry it isn't difficult to get off the line cleanly with the standard tyres, if you are aggressive with the box you can get the traction control to kick in which cuts the power.That graph makes the torque look flatter than it is, the problem the GT86 has is the a huge hole in the torque right where you need it (3000-4500rpm). This has a big impact on how quick the car feels. I can only describe it as like turbo lag.
Ex 200SX owner here too (s14), which I loved, looked like a flat early Mondeo but the SR20 was an awesome engine.
Driven a few standards S13's too, definitely faster than the GT86, but they do handle like a boat in comparison.
Edited by Varelco on Wednesday 17th July 09:06
To counter the magazine performance times already given...
Evo magazine tested times for gt86...
6.9 to 60mph and 16.5 to 100mph.
That is more like what you would expect for this cars power. Even if is only 180-190bhp.
Lots of variables in these tests but essentially the gt86 is better than Toyota says.
Oem tyres don't help.
Evo magazine tested times for gt86...
6.9 to 60mph and 16.5 to 100mph.
That is more like what you would expect for this cars power. Even if is only 180-190bhp.
Lots of variables in these tests but essentially the gt86 is better than Toyota says.
Oem tyres don't help.
Leejay-B said:
To counter the magazine performance times already given...
Evo magazine tested times for gt86...
6.9 to 60mph and 16.5 to 100mph.
That is more like what you would expect for this cars power. Even if is only 180-190bhp.
Lots of variables in these tests but essentially the gt86 is better than Toyota says.
Oem tyres don't help.
That is true re the EVO figures.....but to be consistent their testing surface/procedure achieved even faster times for the 200SX ( 60 in 6.7 ) than the one above in AutocarEvo magazine tested times for gt86...
6.9 to 60mph and 16.5 to 100mph.
That is more like what you would expect for this cars power. Even if is only 180-190bhp.
Lots of variables in these tests but essentially the gt86 is better than Toyota says.
Oem tyres don't help.
Stickier tyres would no doubt help both cars though
Have had 2014 BRZ Limited going on six years now. It has been the best car I have ever owned. To find something better that could replace it (other than another one) would cost double what it cost, namely a 4-5 year old Cayman. I am intrigued to find out more about its replacement model, but I would wait a year or so to see whether it is worthy of buying.
Honeywell said:
190 miles today in mine across mid Wales and it was sublimed. So many gearchanges. So much balance, so many 7,500rpm redlines.
Sod the stopwatch this thing if filthy fun begging to be spanked hard. And it will take it all day long without mechanical complaint. With a few tweaks they are an absolute weapon.
Sorry for the bump, just really enjoyed reading Honeywell's posts on here, and wanted to reply and say I agree with everything he has said Sod the stopwatch this thing if filthy fun begging to be spanked hard. And it will take it all day long without mechanical complaint. With a few tweaks they are an absolute weapon.
The GT86 is so good, I'm fascinated to see if my Cerbera can live up to my memories (currently putting back on road). I have adjustable suspension on the Cerbera, and will be trying to get it to handle as similar as possible to the GT86.
DuncanM said:
Sorry for the bump, just really enjoyed reading Honeywell's posts on here, and wanted to reply and say I agree with everything he has said
The GT86 is so good, I'm fascinated to see if my Cerbera can live up to my memories (currently putting back on road). I have adjustable suspension on the Cerbera, and will be trying to get it to handle as similar as possible to the GT86.
nothing wrong with mods on an 86 or a Cerb imo. at this end of the market - enthusiasts who look beyond contrasting stitching - nearly all cars benefit from some tweaks, and some are well known, well priced and reliable. a sorted Cerb would a great driver's car and an antidote to most sanitised moderns. The GT86 is so good, I'm fascinated to see if my Cerbera can live up to my memories (currently putting back on road). I have adjustable suspension on the Cerbera, and will be trying to get it to handle as similar as possible to the GT86.
CABC said:
nothing wrong with mods on an 86 or a Cerb imo. at this end of the market - enthusiasts who look beyond contrasting stitching - nearly all cars benefit from some tweaks, and some are well known, well priced and reliable. a sorted Cerb would a great driver's car and an antidote to most sanitised moderns.
Absolutely! TVR owners tend to modify as part of the ownership experience, in fact you'd probably struggle to find a TVR on standard suspension nowadays, most owners move to coilovers GT86 community is superb too.
Two months ago I was busting with excitement over it. Registered interest at two Toyota dealerships.
Last month traded in Porsche for BMW i3, and I'm smitten.
Clearly not the same thing at all, but I'm a convert to BEV.
I may get another petrol car for fun at some point, but for now - I'm v happy.
Last month traded in Porsche for BMW i3, and I'm smitten.
Clearly not the same thing at all, but I'm a convert to BEV.
I may get another petrol car for fun at some point, but for now - I'm v happy.
LordGrover said:
Two months ago I was busting with excitement over it. Registered interest at two Toyota dealerships.
Last month traded in Porsche for BMW i3, and I'm smitten.
Clearly not the same thing at all, but I'm a convert to BEV.
I may get another petrol car for fun at some point, but for now - I'm v happy.
Oh, sounds good - nothing is certain but change Last month traded in Porsche for BMW i3, and I'm smitten.
Clearly not the same thing at all, but I'm a convert to BEV.
I may get another petrol car for fun at some point, but for now - I'm v happy.
I'm not ready for bev yet, and don't do the mileage to justify one anyway.
Only heard good things about the i3.
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