Celica VVTI 190 vs 140 - how to tell?

[Bill Carr]

Hey all, I'm considering a 2000 new-shape Celica for my next car, and I'd like a 190 if I can get one at the right price. However, I'm finding it a struggle to differentiate between the two models. I've even made an enquiry about one and the current owner is none the wiser! So, in order to avoid buying the 140, how can I tell a 190 apart? Furthermore, is there anything to worry about with these cars, any work I should check is done (e.g cambelt?) and are high-ish miles an issue (circa 80k)?

Thanks in advance for any tips.

[pentoman]

[redacted]

[AndyB_WRX]

Personally I would be suspicious if the owners said they didn't know what engine it was. I would take it to mean he knows its a 140 but hes just playing stupid. Try asking on Toyota Owners club, they should be able to tell you what bits to look for.

[bint]

Er try www.celica-club.co.uk - they're more likely to know

Engine will say VVTL-i or 2zz-ge the L is the crucial bit as it stands for LIFT that's the extra power that kicks in at about 6300rpm, a little like the V-Tec engines in the Hondas.

The engine is the best place to spot this as badges have been known to be replaced.

Check the lift bolts have been changed at some point - most dealers won't know what the fcuk you're talking about but if you can get the part numbers they will then. Cost pennies and can be replaced easily yourself - Mr T (Toyota) will charge you through the nose.

Other than that, if it's thunder grey it's a 190 as they were only available as a 190, any other colour is across the board. If it's early 2000's then the TSport(another name for a 190) is likely to be an import, later 2004/5 onwards the T sport was available here instead.

They've stopped making the Celica and the new ones aren't 140/190 they're just called a GT.

Bloody good cars IMHO - I had a 51 plate chilli red one for a while that I used as a company car. The GT4 (older bug-eyed model) will wipe the floor with the 190 and tear it to shreds mind

[Bill Carr]

Thanks very much for the advice!

Essentially the only way of differentiating the two models is to look at the engine? Cripes. I know that's not exactly an onorous task (and as a second-hand buyer I'd look under the bonnet anyway) but Toyota haven't exactly made it easy to spot the difference! So, the 140 = VVTi, the 190 = VVTLi? Acronym-tastic.

What are the lift bolts then? Are the engines belt or chain driven?

These cars seem good value right now, with 70k mile y2k cars at the £5k-£6k mark, which for a reliable, moderately pacey, practical coupe seems a bit of a deal. It's no rip-snorter, but then it shouldn't break the bank either which suits me.

[Mr E]

Pretty sure the revcounter redlines higher on a 2ZZ-GE powered car.

[bint]

My dear you are correct - the rev counter on the 190 will be higher.

There are different packs like sports packs and premium packs which will give you leather/climate instead of aircon and side skirts/splitters and different wheels. But they're all available as add ons after if you wanted any.

Can't remember about the chain/belt driven bit sorry - being a bint I fully admit there are areas that I know nothing about. I can tell you it will cost about £4k to supercharge/turbo a 190 though - plus extras for LSDs, bigger brakes etc...... For runarounds, a bit of speed and fun - they're a bit of a bargain. Plus parts are readily available and the cars are like lego - it's very plug and play.

Oh and there's pre-facelift and facelift - think the change was about 2002/2003 - check the club's website for ALL technical info. The 140 often didn't come with a spoiler unless it had a premuim/sport pack extra.

Pre-facelift;
www.testberichte.de/d/imgs/p_imgs/p8073_140_140.jpg

has the little triangular-ish badge hole

Facelift;
www.roysmotorcompany.co.uk/product1/images/kitchens/DSC02936.JPG

has a slitty front

That facelift has the standard wheels which are prone to bubbling and can be replaced FOC under warranty.

[900T-R]

bint said:

Then:

bint said:

being a bint I fully admit there are areas that I know nothing about.

Yeahhhh, right.

[Fidgits]

Mr E said:

Pretty sure the revcounter redlines higher on a 2ZZ-GE powered car.

yes it does.

IIRC the 140 should redline around 6500 the 190 about 7500...

[Bill Carr]

Aha, more clues, thanks! Wikipedia does indeed reveal the higher rev-limit on the 190 - I didn't appreciate that the 140 and 190 were different engines. Intruiging.

So, due to the various packs, the presence or not of a spoiler is not a reliable indicator of the cars power output, but a non-spoilered car is likely to be a 140? This is tricky I quite like them without the spoiler actually - looks less like it's trying so hard.

Thanks for the advice folks!

[Fidgits]

Bill Carr said:

Aha, more clues, thanks! Wikipedia does indeed reveal the higher rev-limit on the 190 - I didn't appreciate that the 140 and 190 were different engines. Intruiging.

So, due to the various packs, the presence or not of a spoiler is not a reliable indicator of the cars power output, but a non-spoilered car is likely to be a 140? This is tricky I quite like them without the spoiler actually - looks less like it's trying so hard.

Thanks for the advice folks!

Again - IIRC the 140 and 190 neither had the spoiler or leather interior - these were both part of the 'Sports' and 'Comfort' packs, and options on both cars.

Only the T-Sport came with both as standard.

[Mr E]

Bill Carr said:

Aha, more clues, thanks! Wikipedia does indeed reveal the higher rev-limit on the 190 - I didn't appreciate that the 140 and 190 were different engines. Intruiging.

Same blocks, different heads (and very different valvetrains).

[Pat H]

One of the girls at work has a 140bhp Celica, which is just 4 years old and has done 60,000 miles.

It is a well built car, but a bit of a gutless wonder with too many cogs in the gearbox.

I preferred her Puma as a drivers car, but the Toyota is much more nicely made.

Does anyone know what the cambelt interval is on these things. I am assuming that it has a belt?

[Fidgits]

prolly 60k..

[pentoman]

Bill Carr said:

Aha, more clues, thanks! Wikipedia does indeed reveal the higher rev-limit on the 190 - I didn't appreciate that the 140 and 190 were different engines. Intruiging.

So, due to the various packs, the presence or not of a spoiler is not a reliable indicator of the cars power output, but a non-spoilered car is likely to be a 140? This is tricky I quite like them without the spoiler actually - looks less like it's trying so hard.

Thanks for the advice folks!

Red badge is still a fairly good indicator!

[Bill Carr]

http://toyotaownersclub.com/forums/in

www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t9817.html

www.toyota.co.uk/vs2/pdf/CE3_74_spec.pdf

Apparently the 140 and 190 vvti/vvtli engines are chain-driven! Which is good news. And it's £50 for the dealer to do the lift bolts (whatever they are).

I stun myself with my googling abilities sometimes

[Pat H]

Bill Carr said:

Apparently the 140 and 190 vvti/vvtli engines are chain-driven! Which is good news.

Thanks, Bill.

Very underrated things, these cam chains.

To my surprise, the motor in my E36 328 BMW is also chain driven, as was the motor in the second generation Nissan Micra that I used as a daily snotter a few years ago.

Give me a tinkly chain rather than risk a knackered head, smashed pistons and bent valves...

[pentoman]

Pat H said:

Bill Carr said:

Apparently the 140 and 190 vvti/vvtli engines are chain-driven! Which is good news.

Thanks, Bill.

Very underrated things, these cam chains.

To my surprise, the motor in my E36 328 BMW is also chain driven, as was the motor in the second generation Nissan Micra that I used as a daily snotter a few years ago.

Give me a tinkly chain rather than risk a knackered head, smashed pistons and bent valves...

After 4+ years of chain-drive cam Mercedes ownership I actually quite like the idea of nice rattle-free belt-driven cam engine.

[Pat H]

pentoman said:

Pat H said:

Bill Carr said:

Apparently the 140 and 190 vvti/vvtli engines are chain-driven! Which is good news.

Thanks, Bill.

Very underrated things, these cam chains.

To my surprise, the motor in my E36 328 BMW is also chain driven, as was the motor in the second generation Nissan Micra that I used as a daily snotter a few years ago.

Give me a tinkly chain rather than risk a knackered head, smashed pistons and bent valves...

After 4+ years of chain-drive cam Mercedes ownership I actually quite like the idea of nice rattle-free belt-driven cam engine.

Ah, but I was brought up on Minis.

So I am used to rattling timing gear, noisy clutch release bearings, rattly idler gears and clattery valve gear.

If the engine was quiet then you usually had screwed up with your tappet adjustment....

[RKDE]

Well its very easy.

*140 has a round tailpipe, the 190 is oval
*140 has a one piece engine cover stating vvt-i the 190 has a 2 piece cover stating vvti-l
*the rev counter is 6800 on the 140 and the 190 goes to about 8500
*140 is 1zzfe and the 190 is a 2zzge
*140 has a plastic inlet and the 190 has a cast inlet
*the 140 has 2 exhaust boxes and a CAT, the 190 has 3 boxes and a cat
*the best way to tell on a modded celica is the manifold, its either plastic (140) or cast (190)

The best way to quickly tell on the stock car is to look at the exhaust tail pipe, its either round (140) or oval (190)

The engine has a timing chain which lasts apparently the life of the car, the engines are noisy to start but once warm are better. the 140 it fairly gutless hence I made a supercharger fit giving it 247bhp at 10psi @6500rpm now its better.

190 has supercharger option from greddy and the 140 has a turbo from C2Power, there is no charger available for the 140 unless you build it yourself.