New BMW's getting stolen using blank BMW keys
Discussion
Rotten Egg said:
Another thing I've just noticed - when pressing the key fob once to open the doors, both now unlock whereas before only the drivers would open - two presses were required to open both.
SMP
That's just a user-selectable setting via iDrive - at least it is on many models. The settings are stored separately for each key.SMP
Seems to be a whole load of inconsistency on the approach to pre-Mar'07 models. Some dealers happily booking them in, others clinging on to the line that they are not affected (which seems increasingly flimsy).
Would anyone who has successfully managed to get their pre-Mar'07 vehicle updated mind sharing the name of the dealer so others might benefit?
Would anyone who has successfully managed to get their pre-Mar'07 vehicle updated mind sharing the name of the dealer so others might benefit?
I find it hard to believe that this fix does anything other than resolve the window issue.
If the fix did change the system so that an existing key was required before a new key could be attached, BMW would have a responsibility to explain this to the owner.
I think at this stage we can assume that the fix only does exactly what they're saying it does, unless Mr Bimmer has some proof to the contrary.
If the fix did change the system so that an existing key was required before a new key could be attached, BMW would have a responsibility to explain this to the owner.
I think at this stage we can assume that the fix only does exactly what they're saying it does, unless Mr Bimmer has some proof to the contrary.
DpchMd said:
I find it hard to believe that this fix does anything other than resolve the window issue.
If the fix did change the system so that an existing key was required before a new key could be attached, BMW would have a responsibility to explain this to the owner.
I think at this stage we can assume that the fix only does exactly what they're saying it does, unless Mr Bimmer has some proof to the contrary.
Why? How often do owners recode keys?If the fix did change the system so that an existing key was required before a new key could be attached, BMW would have a responsibility to explain this to the owner.
I think at this stage we can assume that the fix only does exactly what they're saying it does, unless Mr Bimmer has some proof to the contrary.
Rybrook Warwick did my 56 plate (think Sep 06) E60.
Told me that part of the fix was to stop the key cloning and that a key was needed in the dash in order to create a new key.
This was after it was stolen using this method though...
They also replaced the CAS module while it was getting repaired after being stolen. Only did the update a few days ago.
Told me that part of the fix was to stop the key cloning and that a key was needed in the dash in order to create a new key.
This was after it was stolen using this method though...
They also replaced the CAS module while it was getting repaired after being stolen. Only did the update a few days ago.
DpchMd said:
I find it hard to believe that this fix does anything other than resolve the window issue.
If the fix did change the system so that an existing key was required before a new key could be attached, BMW would have a responsibility to explain this to the owner.
I think at this stage we can assume that the fix only does exactly what they're saying it does, unless Mr Bimmer has some proof to the contrary.
I must admit that I totally agree with you however Mr Bimmer on here and another guy I know on the M3 forum I frequent insists that the OBD port is disabled until the original key is inserted into the dash. They are both utterly convinced of this. If the fix did change the system so that an existing key was required before a new key could be attached, BMW would have a responsibility to explain this to the owner.
I think at this stage we can assume that the fix only does exactly what they're saying it does, unless Mr Bimmer has some proof to the contrary.
The only thing I can't get my head round is why do BMW not lead with this as their main improvement? Why tell everyone that they are enhancing a window feature as opposed to disabling the OBD port which is what all us owners want. It doesn't make sense.
t8cmf said:
The only thing I can't get my head round is why do BMW not lead with this as their main improvement? Why tell everyone that they are enhancing a window feature as opposed to disabling the OBD port which is what all us owners want. It doesn't make sense.
Because that would amount to an admission of a significant security flaw and potentially open them up to all kinds of claims they don't want to have to deal with?As it is they have identified a well known utility function (the window opening) that in combination with the OBD key coding has contributed to the ease with which the cars can be stolen. By being public about disabling the window function, and at the same time modifying the OBD key coding, they are seeking to contain the damage to their reputation and also the potential fallout.
All IMHO and not in anyway based on any knowledge, but in my mind is a rational path for a corporate to take to minimise impact:
- modify a standard function that may contribute to the problem (but demands some element of criminal damage by third parties).
- unannounced, fix the underlying security flaw that is solely down to them.
ETA: if I were a BMW owner, I'd get the update done and be hope they have fixed the underlying flaw, rather than speculating about what might or might not have been done. I doubt anyone will get a public admission of all the changes made.
Edited by jeremyc on Sunday 25th November 09:09
jeremyc said:
ecause that would amount to an admission of a significant security flaw and potentially open them up to all kinds of claims they don't want to have to deal with?
As it is they have identified a well known utility function (the window opening) that in combination with the OBD key coding has contributed to the ease with which the cars can be stolen. By being public about disabling the window function, and at the same time modifying the OBD key coding, they are seeking to contain the damage to their reputation and also the potential fallout.
All IMHO and not in anyway based on any knowledge, but in my mind is a rational path for a corporate to take to minimise impact:
- modify a standard function that may contribute to the problem (but demands some element of criminal damage by third parties).
- unannounced, fix the underlying security flaw that is solely down to them.
ETA: if I were a BMW owner, I'd get the update done and be hope they have fixed the underlying flaw, rather than speculating about what might or might not have been done. I doubt anyone will get a public admission of all the changes made.
All valid points and I agree with your assessment. However, the speculation that BMW are trying to mitigate against will still remain as we are still discussing it without knowing for sure from BMW themselves that the OBD protection is there. The PUMA linked earlier in this post also doesn't mention installing an updated file, only disabling a window dropping feature. The link only shows page 1 of 3 so I don't know if the update is contained on the other two pages. As it is they have identified a well known utility function (the window opening) that in combination with the OBD key coding has contributed to the ease with which the cars can be stolen. By being public about disabling the window function, and at the same time modifying the OBD key coding, they are seeking to contain the damage to their reputation and also the potential fallout.
All IMHO and not in anyway based on any knowledge, but in my mind is a rational path for a corporate to take to minimise impact:
- modify a standard function that may contribute to the problem (but demands some element of criminal damage by third parties).
- unannounced, fix the underlying security flaw that is solely down to them.
ETA: if I were a BMW owner, I'd get the update done and be hope they have fixed the underlying flaw, rather than speculating about what might or might not have been done. I doubt anyone will get a public admission of all the changes made.
Edited by jeremyc on Sunday 25th November 09:09
As you say this approach will protect them from any legal action. I have my update so I'm happy for now.
t8cmf said:
All valid points and I agree with your assessment. However, the speculation that BMW are trying to mitigate against will still remain as we are still discussing it without knowing for sure from BMW themselves that the OBD protection is there.
So the next time someone has the update done all they have to do is to ask what is involved in making a new key: "what if I have lost all copies of my key, are you able to make me a new one?"; "do you need one of my existing keys in order to code the car to a new one?".I reckon the trick is not to ask about the specifics of the update, but the (possibly new) process of coding the car to keys.
jeremyc said:
o the next time someone has the update done all they have to do is to ask what is involved in making a new key: "what if I have lost all copies of my key, are you able to make me a new one?"; "do you need one of my existing keys in order to code the car to a new one?".
I reckon the trick is not to ask about the specifics of the update, but the (possibly new) process of coding the car to keys.
I reckon the trick is not to ask about the specifics of the update, but the (possibly new) process of coding the car to keys.
Yeah, I agree with this as well. It may take a while for the BMW sales teams around the country to fully understand this concept. The sales guy that handed me my key back when I picked my M3 up after the update told me that the window drop feature was disabled on my key AND my fob. I told him that this shouldn't be the case and took him outside. I then showed him that the windows will drop on the fob but not the key itself. He was surprised and obviously ill informed. I had faith that I was right due to the forums I go on but I would have looked foolish if I was wrong.
The "I've lost my only key" problem is an interesting one. I wonder what the BMW solution is to that. You normally get four keys from a set of eight and can order the other four by proving that you are the owner. Each key is circa £100. If you need a 9th key, the solution is to replace the keycode module and all the locks - costing circa £1000.
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