335d/435d or 535d

[Mr Tidy]

What is the problem with steering feel, etc. - it is still a tractor (albeit a BMW one) FFS!

[Wills2]

Mr Tidy said:

What is the problem with steering feel, etc. - it is still a tractor (albeit a BMW one) FFS!

Even so the tractor steering is still better than a Z4C's

[Wills2]

theboss said:

Wills2 said:

smashy said:

h blimey...nice.... I saw one the other day on the M4 ....it was in some special blue colour the "presence" of the beast was fantastic,

I've gone a bit overboard in my reaction to the 335d! Looking forward to it.

Did exactly the same - drove my brothers F31 335xd, went to dealer to look at ordering one for the wife, ended up doing a deal on F10 M5 for me! Factory order due third week of March - I am pretty fking excited

Nice one, the dealer sent me a video of the car as it arrived yesterday going to see it this afternoon.

[cerb4.5lee]

Mr Tidy said:

What is the problem with steering feel, etc. - it is still a tractor (albeit a BMW one) FFS!

That is true but I am just not a fan of electric steering and it seems to be especially vague on the 6 series, in saying that if electric steering is good enough for a Porsche 911 then maybe I am just being too picky and I should be thankful for the extra mpg`s you get with that type of steering set up.

I am a really big fan of the M235i and I wonder if the electric steering on that is any better.

[Dryce]

cerb4.5lee said:

That is true but I am just not a fan of electric steering and it seems to be especially vague on the 6 series, in saying that if electric steering is good enough for a Porsche 911 then maybe I am just being too picky and I should be thankful for the extra mpg`s you get with that type of steering set up.

My theory is that the basic setup isn't that good to begin with. The 6er steering doesn't give you much feel for the front end to start with IMO. When changing speeds between 45 and 60 on some kinds of twisty road then there's a chance that you end up with the assistance giving you the impression of a continuously false sense feedback that is changing. Combined with the general lack of front end feel and the car then feels very clumsy and inaccurate.

This doesn't happen on all roads. And that's the conundrum - get the car on the right sort of road and while the feedback is still poor it's consistent and as a result the car feels much more precise.

[moffat]

Believe me there are worse cars than the 640d for steering feel. My previous Mercedes C350 was appalling and back in 2001 when I owned an Audi S3 it was also much worse. In fact, in my opinion every Audi and Mercedes I've driven (barring AMG and RS models) have worse feel than even the 640.

Get used to it though, due to emissions and the race for high mpg mechanical and hydraulic steering are a thing of the past.

My previous C63 was perfect for steering feel

My previous 135i with the N54 engine and hydraulic steering was an excellent car and hugely under-rated.

As mentioned the new 40i engine which is due out soon will win back a few performance diesel drivers with it's low C02, low NOX (this is going to be important soon), good mpg and excellent performance (340-360bhp).

The 440i M Sport with RWD only could be quite a good car and sit nicely under the M4.... but then there will be the M2 too and I know which I would take.

[knitware]

I was given a 320d xDrive M Sport salloon as a loan car and there were a few differences to the F31 330d M Sport.

In the 320d the steering felt stiffer which isn’t a bad thing, the engine is really good, excellent pick up, the cornering is great too. I have had AC Schnitzer springs fitted to the 330d and whilst in the 320d the familiar bounce up and down was there, a bit annoying.

Otherwise the 320d xDrive is great, plenty fast enough but the interior quality seemed a lesser quality to my car, is the 330d different interior wise or the same?

Anyway, I now think the 320d XDrive is a really good car, which in turn makes the 330d a great car!

[apotts]

cerb4.5lee said:

then maybe I am just being too picky and I should be thankful for the extra mpg`s you get with that type of steering set up.

What frustrates me is that I have to put up with the dreadful electric steering on the 535d so that the eco-warriors can be happy with the fact that I don't need a continuously turning hydraulic pump - yet on my car I have AD which uses a .... continuously turning hydraulic pump. Grrrrrrr

The XF has it right - perfect seating position (not twisted like the F10) and lovely hydraulic steering. I guess that will go with the new one though.

[cerb4.5lee]

apotts said:

cerb4.5lee said:

then maybe I am just being too picky and I should be thankful for the extra mpg`s you get with that type of steering set up.

What frustrates me is that I have to put up with the dreadful electric steering on the 535d so that the eco-warriors can be happy with the fact that I don't need a continuously turning hydraulic pump - yet on my car I have AD which uses a .... continuously turning hydraulic pump. Grrrrrrr

The XF has it right - perfect seating position (not twisted like the F10) and lovely hydraulic steering. I guess that will go with the new one though.

Yes it is frustrating for sure and it does seem to be the modern way like with auto gearboxes and Turbo charged engines being all the rage to chase lower emissions and better economy...I am starting to sound like an old fart!

I do still think the past is better than the future in terms of cars though and none of the modern tech is making me think otherwise but maybe I am just too narrow minded.

[Dryce]

moffat said:

Believe me there are worse cars than the 640d for steering feel. My previous Mercedes C350 was appalling and back in 2001 when I owned an Audi S3 it was also much worse. In fact, in my opinion every Audi and Mercedes I've driven (barring AMG and RS models) have worse feel than even the 640.

Really this isn't an excuse. The 2001 C class was presumably a recirculating ball based power assistance - which really really isn't a good start. And Audi are FWD.

OTOH the 640d is not a £20K or £30K car - it's being touted as a £60K+ car with RWD and one that BMW would aim at people who want to enjoy driving it.

It's just not good enough if all it's good for are open straight wide As, DCs, and motorways.

[cerb4.5lee]

Dryce said:

OTOH the 640d is not a £20K or £30K car - it's being touted as a £60K+ car with RWD and one that BMW would aim at people who want to enjoy driving it.

It's just not good enough if all it's good for are open straight wide As, DCs, and motorways.

I do agree with what you are saying and it is a real disappointment for sure but I suppose when you consider its size and weight and obvious GT direction I suppose it is too much to ask for it to be good to drive on anything other than a straight road.

Although I believe the previous 6 series had a more sports orientated feel to it to drive and the really old 6 series models were held in very high regard to drive so the history is there.

It reminds me a little of the transition from E85 Z4(sporty) to E89 Z4(cruiser) in some ways.

[moffat]

I think I went into the 640d purchase with my eyes wide open realising that I was sacrificing steering feel and I also knew that I was going to lose out on country road fun - it's still a bit of a shock day to day but I'm pretty pragmatic and will just be sensible for a couple of years before getting back into an AMG / M / RS car.

I do agree that it should be better, but thats life now... seriously, go and drive the new M3/M4 and you'll see that it's not that much better as the M cars are all going electric power steering too.

I will be interested to see what Mercedes does with their AMG cars but suspect they will follow suit. Not sure what setup the new C63 has.

[Dryce]

moffat said:

I think I went into the 640d purchase with my eyes wide open realising that I was sacrificing steering feel and I also knew that I was going to lose out on country road fun - it's still a bit of a shock day to day but I'm pretty pragmatic and will just be sensible for a couple of years before getting back into an AMG / M / RS car.

Likewise I went in wide open. I did a decent test drive.

But even so I've had a few journeys where it really has been a disappointment. The worst was back in September deliberately avoiding the A9 around Perth by going via Crieff and Aberfeldy threw up the worst of this issue. Getting back on the A9 near Trinafour - and into big cruiser mode was a relief.

OTOH taking it down the A93 from Braemar to Perth and it behaves pretty well - though the tactile feedback isn't that rewarding. And if you asked me I'd say making good progress along the Braemar to Blairgowrie is a decent test of a large car and whether it behaves well.

After the Crieff-Aberfeldy experience that was it for me. Final straw. I've been counting down the days till I hand the car back and replace it. The car has good points and has its good days but the pros / cons balance sheet is now solidly against it. There are no excuses.

It really annoys me that on my days off that the car can potentially under-deliver to the point it spoils a journey - and then it is actually taking something from me rather than just not giving me something.

[SimNugget]

Is anyone considering the difference between cars with the Servotronic steering (standard with M Sport) or the optional Variable Sport steering?

S

[moffat]

Dryce - yes, A road, smooth nicely bendy are fantastic for the car, B road, bumpy on runflats not good@!

With regard the vario assisted steering avoid like the plague, it's horrendous. Totally fake and steering feel and amount that you need to change the wheel depends on the speed etc.

[BMRuss]

I've a 64 plate 335d x drive and I really like it, so much that I've done over 5k miles in 2 months

I don't have an issue with the steering, in fact I think it's great, especially in sports mode and I have also opted for popping on ACS springs after my car has done about 300 miles to stop the wallowing, (£200 fitted by BMW specialist)

It fits my family in nicely with all the associated stuff that comes with children, it's returning 39mpgs with mixed driving and each time I drive it, it feels like an event, I don't think a 5 series would feel like that, depends on what you want from the car.

Edited to add a picture

Edited by BMRuss on Friday 13th February 10:02

[julian64]

BMRuss said:

I've a 64 plate 335d x drive and I really like it, so much that I've done over 5k miles in 2 months

I don't have an issue with the steering, in fact I think it's great, especially in sports mode and I have also opted for popping on ACS springs after my car has done about 300 miles to stop the wallowing, (£200 fitted by BMW specialist)

It fits my family in nicely with all the associated stuff that comes with children, it's returning 39mpgs with mixed driving and each time I drive it, it feels like an event, I don't think a 5 series would feel like that, depends on what you want from the car.

Edited to add a picture

Edited by BMRuss on Friday 13th February 10:02

Nice car. I'd be interested on your thoughs after the ACS springs. Myfuel consumption is only at 32 at the mo which is great because my last BMW was an old M5 getting no better than 20 when driven in the same way. I have a heavy right foot . Which is why I can't relate to the stories of it being a bad handling car compared to the M series. I tend to drive spiritedly but have yet to find much wallowing. If anything its a bit more chuckable than the M5

[smashy]

BMRuss said:

I've a 64 plate 335d x drive and I really like it, so much that I've done over 5k miles in 2 months

I don't have an issue with the steering, in fact I think it's great, especially in sports mode and I have also opted for popping on ACS springs after my car has done about 300 miles to stop the wallowing, (£200 fitted by BMW specialist)

It fits my family in nicely with all the associated stuff that comes with children, it's returning 39mpgs with mixed driving and each time I drive it, it feels like an event, I don't think a 5 series would feel like that, depends on what you want from the car.

Edited to add a picture

Edited by BMRuss on Friday 13th February 10:02

£200 is their labour cost ? The springs usually cost all in around £650......and you are going to be "thrilled" is a good word.

[julian64]

smashy said:

BMRuss said:

I've a 64 plate 335d x drive and I really like it, so much that I've done over 5k miles in 2 months

I don't have an issue with the steering, in fact I think it's great, especially in sports mode and I have also opted for popping on ACS springs after my car has done about 300 miles to stop the wallowing, (£200 fitted by BMW specialist)

It fits my family in nicely with all the associated stuff that comes with children, it's returning 39mpgs with mixed driving and each time I drive it, it feels like an event, I don't think a 5 series would feel like that, depends on what you want from the car.

Edited to add a picture

Edited by BMRuss on Friday 13th February 10:02

£200 is their labour cost ? The springs usually cost all in around £650......and you are going to be "thrilled" is a good word.

http://shop.ac-schnitzer.co.uk/suspension-springs-for-bmw-3-series-f30f31-from-4387-p.asp

Springs look quite cheap at £260 for a set. The feedback is glowing but it does knock an inch off the ride height.
I assume you also have to add something for fitting and a geometry setup will be needed once they're in.

[smashy]

Yes 25 cm it has given my Luxury a better stance....re geometry after I went to Rossiters to have mine done they took it to the local BMW Main dealer to have the geometry checked, from Rossiters £650 all in ,( and headlight adjustment if I recall properly)