N47 Timing Chain failure --- how common is it still?
Discussion
You can get them for a lot less than that to be fair - a good specialist can get a DMF and clutch for about 500 quid and a proper LuK one, not cheap s
te. Added to a chain job with the engine in the car, the labour is almost free as the flywheel comes off anyway.
I have photos somewhere of a 2013 520d whose chain snapped and the crank wound it around like a swiss roll and fractured the crankcase. Another snapped the oil pump chain that that got caught up in the main chain...........
te. Added to a chain job with the engine in the car, the labour is almost free as the flywheel comes off anyway.I have photos somewhere of a 2013 520d whose chain snapped and the crank wound it around like a swiss roll and fractured the crankcase. Another snapped the oil pump chain that that got caught up in the main chain...........
I have a 5 2.0 Touring 14 plate with 26k miles when I bought it last Oct first thing I did was oil change. My Indy mechanic said change the oil every year it will be fine. It went for a service Sat with the Dealer which was included in its original service pack, so it’s had another oil change so that’s two in six months.
iSore said:
14 plate may well be a B47, of which there haven't been any reported chain dramas apparently.
The trick - for a very long time now - has been to over service them and keep them well topped up with oil.Rely on perhaps 18-20,000 miles between services on a diesel and not checking the oil levels regularly = bad idea.
hilly10 said:
I have a 5 2.0 Touring 14 plate with 26k miles when I bought it last Oct first thing I did was oil change. My Indy mechanic said change the oil every year it will be fine. It went for a service Sat with the Dealer which was included in its original service pack, so it’s had another oil change so that’s two in six months.
We did my sons 120d every 9K miles at our local indie and then at the 18K marker with BMW. It meant the car still had a full BMW SH but we had the assurance of the extra oil change. The indie also did the maintenance too - at a fraction of BMWs prices. Not that it needed much - just disks and pads from memory which was amazing given the hard life it had.sicasey said:
And then you also have the annoying N47 clutch judder that BMW are fully aware of and requires a new clutch and dual mass fly wheel @ a cost of around 1K.
Had this on my N47 118d @135k it didn't cost me anywhere near £1k to change - its not the clutch its the DMF that is the issue, revised part included a revised damper to stop this.Edited by DailyHack on Thursday 29th March 08:51
Edited by DailyHack on Thursday 29th March 08:51
The B47 is fine so far - plenty with well over 100'000 and no reported dramas. The tensioners have been redesigned about 7-8 times (really) and they seem to have finally got it right.
It's got little to do with oil changes either. Lots of cars with simplex chains (Maxi, BMW M10 etc) did high miles on old st oil, 20/50 multigrade etc and never broke a timing chain. How many M54 engines have ever snapped a cam chain? The N47 chain just wasn't of good enough quality and the guides weren't up to the job.
It's got little to do with oil changes either. Lots of cars with simplex chains (Maxi, BMW M10 etc) did high miles on old s
t oil, 20/50 multigrade etc and never broke a timing chain. How many M54 engines have ever snapped a cam chain? The N47 chain just wasn't of good enough quality and the guides weren't up to the job.iSore said:
The B47 is fine so far - plenty with well over 100'000 and no reported dramas. The tensioners have been redesigned about 7-8 times (really) and they seem to have finally got it right.
It's got little to do with oil changes either. Lots of cars with simplex chains (Maxi, BMW M10 etc) did high miles on old st oil, 20/50 multigrade etc and never broke a timing chain. How many M54 engines have ever snapped a cam chain? The N47 chain just wasn't of good enough quality and the guides weren't up to the job.
So all the more reason to make sure the oil is fresh and well topped up?It's got little to do with oil changes either. Lots of cars with simplex chains (Maxi, BMW M10 etc) did high miles on old s
t oil, 20/50 multigrade etc and never broke a timing chain. How many M54 engines have ever snapped a cam chain? The N47 chain just wasn't of good enough quality and the guides weren't up to the job.Edited by daemon on Friday 30th March 11:43
DailyHack said:
daemon said:
So all the more reason to make sure the oil is fresh and well topped up?
Exactly, if there was a problem with the chain, long oil changes would only just exacerbate the problem.
Long oil changes, and the fact that a diesel engine pollutes its own oil over time, and also that people dont bother checking the car for oil from one service to the next on an engine that does use oil.
I worry a bit every time I read this or similar threads. I have a 62 plate F11 with the N47 engine and it's on 144K miles. I had DMF go at about 110K miles and didn't know to consider the chain. It did 30K a year for the first three years and £20+k each year since. It just gets serviced as per the car, which is more than once a year. Asked my indy re the chain when last in and mine still sounds great, no worries. He says fortunately most chains go at start up so rarely fatal to engines. He see all sorts of mileages on failures and his opinion is the type of driving. Lots of start stop with the start/stop activating puts a lot of strain on the engine. My car was all motoraway miles with first owner and rarely used in town now. Being manual it only stops when you lift the clutch in neutral not like the autos when you stop. Just my 2c.
Timing chain just gone on my 520d 
It's the 2011 model with 150k on the clock. Was driving on the motorway at the time so very dangerous!
Car has a full service history and was only serviced a couple of thousand miles ago. If BMW advised the timing chain needed changing after X miles, I would have done it. I had never heard of the problem.
Now I am stuck with the dilemma of recovering it to BMW and paying them £120 for the privilege of them diagnosing it, then telling me they won't contribute to fixing it (as it's not all BMW Service history), or face a £3k+ bill to get it repaired independently.
It's really tarnished my view of BMW.
It's the 2011 model with 150k on the clock. Was driving on the motorway at the time so very dangerous!Car has a full service history and was only serviced a couple of thousand miles ago. If BMW advised the timing chain needed changing after X miles, I would have done it. I had never heard of the problem.
Now I am stuck with the dilemma of recovering it to BMW and paying them £120 for the privilege of them diagnosing it, then telling me they won't contribute to fixing it (as it's not all BMW Service history), or face a £3k+ bill to get it repaired independently.
It's really tarnished my view of BMW.
Cavanagh-cccim said:
Timing chain just gone on my 520d It's the 2011 model with 150k on the clock. Was driving on the motorway at the time so very dangerous!
Car has a full service history and was only serviced a couple of thousand miles ago. If BMW advised the timing chain needed changing after X miles, I would have done it. I had never heard of the problem.
Now I am stuck with the dilemma of recovering it to BMW and paying them £120 for the privilege of them diagnosing it, then telling me they won't contribute to fixing it (as it's not all BMW Service history), or face a £3k+ bill to get it repaired independently.
It's really tarnished my view of BMW.
If you had this happen in a car with half the mileage I could understand your view of bmw being tarnished. But it’s managed to do 150 thiusand miles, probably with very little else gone wrong in a relatively heavy car with a small engine. And anytime a mechanical failure happens in any car on a motorway can be dangerous - not just a chain failure. It's the 2011 model with 150k on the clock. Was driving on the motorway at the time so very dangerous!Car has a full service history and was only serviced a couple of thousand miles ago. If BMW advised the timing chain needed changing after X miles, I would have done it. I had never heard of the problem.
Now I am stuck with the dilemma of recovering it to BMW and paying them £120 for the privilege of them diagnosing it, then telling me they won't contribute to fixing it (as it's not all BMW Service history), or face a £3k+ bill to get it repaired independently.
It's really tarnished my view of BMW.
I’d be pretty miffed if my chain had snapped too as your looking at a sizeable bill- but at that sort of mileage on any car then a big bill could be thrown at you from anywhere.
Have the engine rebuilt at a decent garage - generally only top end damage occurs and you can normally reuse the head too.
Replacing the chain preemptively is not massively cheaper than after it snaps as it’s normally engine out job, so even if u had known about this potential problem I doubt you would have gone this route anyway
I personally don’t think I’d bother with taking it to a bmw garage to try and get goodwill - I doubt u would get any and £120 would only be first hour of investigation and bmw would want it stripped to assess how much damage has been done, which will be a lot more than one hours work
Edited by Elliot2000 on Monday 24th September 16:52
Elliot2000 said:
Cavanagh-cccim said:
Timing chain just gone on my 520d It's the 2011 model with 150k on the clock. Was driving on the motorway at the time so very dangerous!
Car has a full service history and was only serviced a couple of thousand miles ago. If BMW advised the timing chain needed changing after X miles, I would have done it. I had never heard of the problem.
Now I am stuck with the dilemma of recovering it to BMW and paying them £120 for the privilege of them diagnosing it, then telling me they won't contribute to fixing it (as it's not all BMW Service history), or face a £3k+ bill to get it repaired independently.
It's really tarnished my view of BMW.
If you had this happen in a car with half the mileage I could understand your view of bmw being tarnished. But it’s managed to do 150 thiusand miles, probably with very little else gone wrong in a relatively heavy car with a small engine. And anytime a mechanical failure happens in any car on a motorway can be dangerous - not just a chain failure. It's the 2011 model with 150k on the clock. Was driving on the motorway at the time so very dangerous!Car has a full service history and was only serviced a couple of thousand miles ago. If BMW advised the timing chain needed changing after X miles, I would have done it. I had never heard of the problem.
Now I am stuck with the dilemma of recovering it to BMW and paying them £120 for the privilege of them diagnosing it, then telling me they won't contribute to fixing it (as it's not all BMW Service history), or face a £3k+ bill to get it repaired independently.
It's really tarnished my view of BMW.
I’d be pretty miffed if my chain had snapped too as your looking at a sizeable bill- but at that sort of mileage on any car then a big bill could be thrown at you from anywhere.
Have the engine rebuilt at a decent garage - generally only top end damage occurs and you can normally reuse the head too.
Replacing the chain preemptively is not massively cheaper than after it snaps as it’s normally engine out job, so even if u had known about this potential problem I doubt you would have gone this route anyway
I personally don’t think I’d bother with taking it to a bmw garage to try and get goodwill - I doubt u would get any and £120 would only be first hour of investigation and bmw would want it stripped to assess how much damage has been done, which will be a lot more than one hours work
Edited by Elliot2000 on Monday 24th September 16:52
Its extremely unfortunate but the reality is a 150K mile engine could throw up a big bill at any time.
Like you, i'd get the engine thats it in rebuilt and drive on at it.
Out of curiosity, Cavanagh, what service interval were you getting it done at?
Deep Thought said:
Out of curiosity, Cavanagh, what service interval were you getting it done at?
Interested in this as well, as it's been proven long intervals do exacerbate the issue...many manaufactuers (Mazda) to name one, relooked at their intervals and shortened them, as this hasnt only happened to BMW.TBH, 150k is not alot of miles if the oil has been changed every 10k - it is if it's not been changed in 20k basically BMW service intervals...
I would find a good Indy and stay away from BMW garages, Peter Van deer in Huddersfield is a good shout and knows his bacon on these engines, but there are more around if this is not local.
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