Broken F13 640d Drivers Seat
Discussion
Have any fellow F13 drivers experienced any problems with the driver's seat?
I took my '12 F13 640d in to my local BMW dealership for a service and it was reported that the drivers seat was broken, leading to some movement. I've had the car the best part of 2 years and the seat has never been right - from not getting quite comfortable to not feeling quite planted, for the want of a better expression! I will admit it was never a big enough issue to raise a concern, I just thought it was me, the 20" run flats or the size of the car. It never occurred to me that it could be the seat. I'm only 13 stone max, so it's not my arse that's broken the seat, probably the previous owner but that's just an assumption (pun intended).
Here's the sting - BMW quoted over £1,200 to fix it but willing to meet me half way. I let the extended warranty expire in March this year too
. That price isn't even for a new seat - they will reuse the padding and leathers and other items. It seems a lot to fix something that was probably broken for a while and missed during previous services and warranty inspections.
I'm mulling it over at the moment; apparently attempting to fix it myself would be more expensive in parts than the offer from BMW.
I took my '12 F13 640d in to my local BMW dealership for a service and it was reported that the drivers seat was broken, leading to some movement. I've had the car the best part of 2 years and the seat has never been right - from not getting quite comfortable to not feeling quite planted, for the want of a better expression! I will admit it was never a big enough issue to raise a concern, I just thought it was me, the 20" run flats or the size of the car. It never occurred to me that it could be the seat. I'm only 13 stone max, so it's not my arse that's broken the seat, probably the previous owner but that's just an assumption (pun intended).
Here's the sting - BMW quoted over £1,200 to fix it but willing to meet me half way. I let the extended warranty expire in March this year too
. That price isn't even for a new seat - they will reuse the padding and leathers and other items. It seems a lot to fix something that was probably broken for a while and missed during previous services and warranty inspections.I'm mulling it over at the moment; apparently attempting to fix it myself would be more expensive in parts than the offer from BMW.
There are known issues with the seats developing "rattles" and other annoyances. Equally PUMA will show them the steps to take if it is rattling in anyway (there are I think 3 steps to take in the process under PUMA).
It might be worth narrowing down exactly what parts are having issues first, as some of the seats have as said above known faults over certain years and from what you are saying could fall into that category.
It might be worth narrowing down exactly what parts are having issues first, as some of the seats have as said above known faults over certain years and from what you are saying could fall into that category.
Ninja59 said:
There are known issues with the seats developing "rattles" and other annoyances. Equally PUMA will show them the steps to take if it is rattling in anyway (there are I think 3 steps to take in the process under PUMA).
It might be worth narrowing down exactly what parts are having issues first, as some of the seats have as said above known faults over certain years and from what you are saying could fall into that category.
I don't know what you mean by PUMA, perhaps a service procedure for fault finding? I did Google it and only got a lot of shoes! Is there a source for known faults in the past? Again google returns very little and nothing that's similar to a broken seat. It might be worth narrowing down exactly what parts are having issues first, as some of the seats have as said above known faults over certain years and from what you are saying could fall into that category.
I'm looking to get a workshop manual for the 640d that will help identify components but only found one potential source (ManualSoft).
helix402 said:
As above, in what way is it broken?
I'm not entirely sure - either I didn't understand or I drifted off (thinking of the bill) while the chap was explaining it. Since the electric motors, heater (and hopefully the airbag) all work fine, it must the the internal frame that's broken. Hence why they would be keeping the existing padding and leathers and other working bits. I do know that a quarter of the original price is labour, which makes it an expensive frame. If I could find one at a breakers I'd so the swap myself but the airbag could be an issue.Mysterae said:
I don't know what you mean by PUMA, perhaps a service procedure for fault finding? I did Google it and only got a lot of shoes! Is there a source for known faults in the past? Again google returns very little and nothing that's similar to a broken seat.
I'm looking to get a workshop manual for the 640d that will help identify components but only found one potential source (ManualSoft).
Problems and Measurements Management Aftersales in English, although the German translation acronym brings it down to PUMA. Literally it is database of problems reported to BMW AG with cars and Germany suggests how to check and fix stuff when a techie in a dealership has run out of ideas.I'm looking to get a workshop manual for the 640d that will help identify components but only found one potential source (ManualSoft).
You really need to narrow down what is "broken", as there have been numerous issues with the comfort seats in the 6 and all have been related to the seat rails or frame in some way - some cars have had the seats rebuilt up to 6 times in some cases. It might give you a better "bargaining" chip to bring the cost down.
As far as I am aware there are no current 6 series manuals the only open system is the parts side (Real OEM or the aftersales parts portal from BMW), all the rest of it is handled now by the Aftersales Online System (AOS), but that costs on time access basis.
Ninja59 said:
Problems and Measurements Management Aftersales in English, although the German translation acronym brings it down to PUMA. Literally it is database of problems reported to BMW AG with cars and Germany suggests how to check and fix stuff when a techie in a dealership has run out of ideas.
You really need to narrow down what is "broken", as there have been numerous issues with the comfort seats in the 6 and all have been related to the seat rails or frame in some way - some cars have had the seats rebuilt up to 6 times in some cases. It might give you a better "bargaining" chip to bring the cost down.
As far as I am aware there are no current 6 series manuals the only open system is the parts side (Real OEM or the aftersales parts portal from BMW), all the rest of it is handled now by the Aftersales Online System (AOS), but that costs on time access basis.
I presume the public don't have access to this PUMA system, would be interested to know what's on it for sure. I do need to find out precisely what's wrong and if it really needs such expensive parts to fix. You really need to narrow down what is "broken", as there have been numerous issues with the comfort seats in the 6 and all have been related to the seat rails or frame in some way - some cars have had the seats rebuilt up to 6 times in some cases. It might give you a better "bargaining" chip to bring the cost down.
As far as I am aware there are no current 6 series manuals the only open system is the parts side (Real OEM or the aftersales parts portal from BMW), all the rest of it is handled now by the Aftersales Online System (AOS), but that costs on time access basis.
Mysterae said:
I presume the public don't have access to this PUMA system, would be interested to know what's on it for sure. I do need to find out precisely what's wrong and if it really needs such expensive parts to fix.
No public access as you can guess.It is worth searching more generally for seat problems in the 640D as many have had seat fixings replaced, seat rails replaced, frames replaced and even in some cases complete new seats....there is plenty of information about these issues, all of them interestingly confined to the earlier cars....
I noticed this when buying mine...they couldn`t "identify" the fault. So I did my on digging and sent them this that I found on a BMW forum....
There are it seems two known issues with BMW 6 series F12 and F13 seats. I’d like to share my experiences with identifying and having them repaired. My car is a 2012 M Sport 640d but suspect this will apply to all F12s and F13s.
The first fault manifests itself as a clicking/knocking noise when you corner. It seems to be caused by wear in the door side of the seat rails. My driver seat started doing this at about 37k miles and the passenger side after 41k miles so they were fixed at different times. If you grasp both the floor mounted rail and the seat rail and wiggle around in your seat you can just detect slight movement. The fix is new outside seat rails. According to the no charge invoice I received, the part numbers used on mine were B52.10.7.309.662 for driver side (RHS) and B52.10.7.383.169 for passenger side. I note that according to the parts catalogue, B52.110.7.309.661 (LHS) is now deleted and replaced by B52.10.7.383.169. This suggests that I have an unmodified RHS and modified LHS rail fitted. The cost of each rail is nearly £300 and fitting each costs another £200 so to get both done would have cost £1,000 if the car had not still been within BMW warranty.
The second fault is to do with the seat base. It starts to move around when you corner. If you get out of the car and grasp underneath the front of the seat base and lift up you will find some movement. Some small movement is normal but as it wears, then you may start to feel the seat base moving about on cornering. If you get your head down on the floor and look underneath the seat, you see two white plastic clips that hold the seat base onto a bar running from side to side. As far as I could tell, it was wear in the white clips that was causing excessive movement. I was 2 months outside of my BMW warranty and the car was on 47k miles but took it to the BMW dealership anyway for an assessment. The Technician knew immediately what the fault was. They requested a goodwill repair from BMW because this is a known issue which was accepted and they ordered and fitted the parts shortly afterwards. My no charge invoice does not state what parts they replaced but I suspect they fitted a new seat pan part number 52.10.7.375.198 (mine is an M Sport. There are other part numbers for other models)
There are it seems two known issues with BMW 6 series F12 and F13 seats. I’d like to share my experiences with identifying and having them repaired. My car is a 2012 M Sport 640d but suspect this will apply to all F12s and F13s.
The first fault manifests itself as a clicking/knocking noise when you corner. It seems to be caused by wear in the door side of the seat rails. My driver seat started doing this at about 37k miles and the passenger side after 41k miles so they were fixed at different times. If you grasp both the floor mounted rail and the seat rail and wiggle around in your seat you can just detect slight movement. The fix is new outside seat rails. According to the no charge invoice I received, the part numbers used on mine were B52.10.7.309.662 for driver side (RHS) and B52.10.7.383.169 for passenger side. I note that according to the parts catalogue, B52.110.7.309.661 (LHS) is now deleted and replaced by B52.10.7.383.169. This suggests that I have an unmodified RHS and modified LHS rail fitted. The cost of each rail is nearly £300 and fitting each costs another £200 so to get both done would have cost £1,000 if the car had not still been within BMW warranty.
The second fault is to do with the seat base. It starts to move around when you corner. If you get out of the car and grasp underneath the front of the seat base and lift up you will find some movement. Some small movement is normal but as it wears, then you may start to feel the seat base moving about on cornering. If you get your head down on the floor and look underneath the seat, you see two white plastic clips that hold the seat base onto a bar running from side to side. As far as I could tell, it was wear in the white clips that was causing excessive movement. I was 2 months outside of my BMW warranty and the car was on 47k miles but took it to the BMW dealership anyway for an assessment. The Technician knew immediately what the fault was. They requested a goodwill repair from BMW because this is a known issue which was accepted and they ordered and fitted the parts shortly afterwards. My no charge invoice does not state what parts they replaced but I suspect they fitted a new seat pan part number 52.10.7.375.198 (mine is an M Sport. There are other part numbers for other models)
Edited by T16OLE on Tuesday 22 November 20:54
The way I wold go about this, your car has been serviced! when was the last time? a good mechanic should have noticed this & reported the issue, has there been a RECALL for this, in my mind an emergency issue? If not why not? I would contact Customer Services UK & complain that in your opinion & the BMW Reputation & the quality of their cars this should never have come about ( Lay It on)) myself I do not think you should have to pay anything.
TWR said:
The way I wold go about this, your car has been serviced! when was the last time? a good mechanic should have noticed this & reported the issue, has there been a RECALL for this, in my mind an emergency issue? If not why not? I would contact Customer Services UK & complain that in your opinion & the BMW Reputation & the quality of their cars this should never have come about ( Lay It on)) myself I do not think you should have to pay anything.
Cheers for that TWR. Just to update, I tried speaking to BMW direct, mentioned PUMA, known fault and had no luck. They said as it was the dealer that made the goodwill gesture of the discounted repair and that they would not get involved. I replied that it was a known fault, I've seen examples of it on the internet including a video on youtube. But alas they didn't want to know about it and the offer from the dealer expired. Not what I'd expect from such a premium car and marque. Now the dealer has extended the offer, but the thought of paying over £600 just to fix a seat which is a design flaw rubs me the wrong way. Anyway I can escalate it higher? BMW customer service complaints were useless.
I think I know what had caused the seat frame damage - the "soft close doors"; what I have witnessed while inside the car is that the seat belt blade gets between the door and the edge of the seat. The motor for the soft close doors continues to drive the door shut and pushes against the seat with the seat belt blade. Easy to avoid if you are in the car when you shut the door, not so much when closing it from the outside. I'll make sure the seat belt blade is up high in the future.
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