Would you still buy a diesel BMW?
Discussion
smashy said:
I also would really like to try a 340i to see what the fuss is about. Last petrol car I drove in 20 years was a 3 cylinder 1ltr corsa 2 years ago as a courtesy car , sounded like a scalextric car very fizzy thing it was 
I'd prefer the sound of a Scalextric car to the sound of a tractor though! 
I've just agreed a deal to px my 640d for a 440i and can't wait.
So the 6 has been a nice car in that the interior is stunning (excluding lack of rear space) and the car looks great. I really don't get why folks buy a used 435d Coupe over the bargain 640d.
But it is a big car so not as much fun and the key to me is the engine. Yes, it's torquey, especially chipped and it's reasonably quick, but it's no fun and sounds rubbish.
I enjoy the 550 mile range and I like the fact I only fill it twice a month, but I'll happily give that up for a little more character and soul.
The 440i is far from perfect. The engine is too linear and sounds muted, BMW need to offer a switchable £1000 exhaust on the options list similar to Mercedes. Instead I have to fork out over £2k for the MPPSK (which is a must for me).
I realise I am going to average 25-30 mpg overall instead of 39mpg, and the long runs really work with the 640 - cruise control 70mph gives an easy 49-51 from cold start to stop.
But petrol engines on the whole are limited. Manufacturers driven by the EU etc have focused on diesel and electric forgetting petrol. the B58 is good, but what else to BMW offer that gives competition to their own diesel engines?
Now is the time for BMW to step up with a decent low CO2 / NOX 2.0 engine that also gives some decent efficiency. A better 'sporty' hybrid version with 270+ bhp.
A B58 with additional hybrid power could be a bit of a weapon with 380bhp.
So the 6 has been a nice car in that the interior is stunning (excluding lack of rear space) and the car looks great. I really don't get why folks buy a used 435d Coupe over the bargain 640d.
But it is a big car so not as much fun and the key to me is the engine. Yes, it's torquey, especially chipped and it's reasonably quick, but it's no fun and sounds rubbish.
I enjoy the 550 mile range and I like the fact I only fill it twice a month, but I'll happily give that up for a little more character and soul.
The 440i is far from perfect. The engine is too linear and sounds muted, BMW need to offer a switchable £1000 exhaust on the options list similar to Mercedes. Instead I have to fork out over £2k for the MPPSK (which is a must for me).
I realise I am going to average 25-30 mpg overall instead of 39mpg, and the long runs really work with the 640 - cruise control 70mph gives an easy 49-51 from cold start to stop.
But petrol engines on the whole are limited. Manufacturers driven by the EU etc have focused on diesel and electric forgetting petrol. the B58 is good, but what else to BMW offer that gives competition to their own diesel engines?
Now is the time for BMW to step up with a decent low CO2 / NOX 2.0 engine that also gives some decent efficiency. A better 'sporty' hybrid version with 270+ bhp.
A B58 with additional hybrid power could be a bit of a weapon with 380bhp.
moffat said:
I've just agreed a deal to px my 640d for a 440i and can't wait.
So the 6 has been a nice car in that the interior is stunning (excluding lack of rear space) and the car looks great. I really don't get why folks buy a used 435d Coupe over the bargain 640d.
But it is a big car so not as much fun and the key to me is the engine. Yes, it's torquey, especially chipped and it's reasonably quick, but it's no fun and sounds rubbish.
I enjoy the 550 mile range and I like the fact I only fill it twice a month, but I'll happily give that up for a little more character and soul.
The 440i is far from perfect. The engine is too linear and sounds muted, BMW need to offer a switchable £1000 exhaust on the options list similar to Mercedes. Instead I have to fork out over £2k for the MPPSK (which is a must for me).
I realise I am going to average 25-30 mpg overall instead of 39mpg, and the long runs really work with the 640 - cruise control 70mph gives an easy 49-51 from cold start to stop.
But petrol engines on the whole are limited. Manufacturers driven by the EU etc have focused on diesel and electric forgetting petrol. the B58 is good, but what else to BMW offer that gives competition to their own diesel engines?
Now is the time for BMW to step up with a decent low CO2 / NOX 2.0 engine that also gives some decent efficiency. A better 'sporty' hybrid version with 270+ bhp.
A B58 with additional hybrid power could be a bit of a weapon with 380bhp.
Good call. I thought about the 440 Convertible but went for a 540 as newer model and lots of techy toys. Enjoy.So the 6 has been a nice car in that the interior is stunning (excluding lack of rear space) and the car looks great. I really don't get why folks buy a used 435d Coupe over the bargain 640d.
But it is a big car so not as much fun and the key to me is the engine. Yes, it's torquey, especially chipped and it's reasonably quick, but it's no fun and sounds rubbish.
I enjoy the 550 mile range and I like the fact I only fill it twice a month, but I'll happily give that up for a little more character and soul.
The 440i is far from perfect. The engine is too linear and sounds muted, BMW need to offer a switchable £1000 exhaust on the options list similar to Mercedes. Instead I have to fork out over £2k for the MPPSK (which is a must for me).
I realise I am going to average 25-30 mpg overall instead of 39mpg, and the long runs really work with the 640 - cruise control 70mph gives an easy 49-51 from cold start to stop.
But petrol engines on the whole are limited. Manufacturers driven by the EU etc have focused on diesel and electric forgetting petrol. the B58 is good, but what else to BMW offer that gives competition to their own diesel engines?
Now is the time for BMW to step up with a decent low CO2 / NOX 2.0 engine that also gives some decent efficiency. A better 'sporty' hybrid version with 270+ bhp.
A B58 with additional hybrid power could be a bit of a weapon with 380bhp.
I love the new 5, epic looking thing, especially the interior, but trying to move away from large cars.
I've gone a little mad as I know I will miss the interior of the 6, so I've gone for Individual merino leather, Individual leather dash and trim. I've also added the M Performance 20" alloys, carbon bodykit and MPPSK (exhaust and remap). I love tech too, but limited to the camera, HUD and a few other things. Damn expensive for a 440i but the 2.9% APR and nice discount made it appealing!
I've gone a little mad as I know I will miss the interior of the 6, so I've gone for Individual merino leather, Individual leather dash and trim. I've also added the M Performance 20" alloys, carbon bodykit and MPPSK (exhaust and remap). I love tech too, but limited to the camera, HUD and a few other things. Damn expensive for a 440i but the 2.9% APR and nice discount made it appealing!
We have an Euro 4 X5 3.0sd and a Euro 3 XC90 D5. The X5 was bought a few months back. We don't live in london and so there won't be too many issues with driving it. Surprisingly, it never seems to go above 21mpg, being a diesel, but that's what you expect with the diesels. The petrol V8 is comically thirsty at 15-17mpg, but to put it into perspective it really isn't any more than a petrol!
The X5 is needed for business trips but the XC90 is now mainly in city driving, but the scrappage scheme may affect the XC90 if it's implied in our area.
People will still need diesels in the forthcoming future, even with the tide now turning against the diesel car. They are becoming health risks for us all and we do need to begin to look at petrol at the very least. There is always going to be businessmen who need to see clients, or salesmen making sales, and public service vehicles needing to be diesel.
If the worse comes to worse, we will probably change all cars for petrol cars. Petrol BMW's are much nicer, for the X5 we may miss the twin turbo's but you can't beat a V8, as well as the fact that running costs wont really change. However diesel cars are still at good prices and people will still buy if they want a desirable car. The issue is that people who are doing only city driving are buying 320ds or some rubbish TDI and thus is affecting how diesels are being used. Diesels are for those who need to do lots and lots of miles, and considering that we have put 10,000 miles on our X5 since buying it last July, it certainly has saved some money over what it could have been with a petrol.
Reality is, I would still buy a diesel BMW if my needs permitted.
The X5 is needed for business trips but the XC90 is now mainly in city driving, but the scrappage scheme may affect the XC90 if it's implied in our area.
People will still need diesels in the forthcoming future, even with the tide now turning against the diesel car. They are becoming health risks for us all and we do need to begin to look at petrol at the very least. There is always going to be businessmen who need to see clients, or salesmen making sales, and public service vehicles needing to be diesel.
If the worse comes to worse, we will probably change all cars for petrol cars. Petrol BMW's are much nicer, for the X5 we may miss the twin turbo's but you can't beat a V8, as well as the fact that running costs wont really change. However diesel cars are still at good prices and people will still buy if they want a desirable car. The issue is that people who are doing only city driving are buying 320ds or some rubbish TDI and thus is affecting how diesels are being used. Diesels are for those who need to do lots and lots of miles, and considering that we have put 10,000 miles on our X5 since buying it last July, it certainly has saved some money over what it could have been with a petrol.
Reality is, I would still buy a diesel BMW if my needs permitted.
moffat said:
I've just agreed a deal to px my 640d for a 440i and can't wait.
So the 6 has been a nice car in that the interior is stunning (excluding lack of rear space) and the car looks great. I really don't get why folks buy a used 435d Coupe over the bargain 640d.
But it is a big car so not as much fun and the key to me is the engine. Yes, it's torquey, especially chipped and it's reasonably quick, but it's no fun and sounds rubbish.
I enjoy the 550 mile range and I like the fact I only fill it twice a month, but I'll happily give that up for a little more character and soul.
The 440i is far from perfect. The engine is too linear and sounds muted, BMW need to offer a switchable £1000 exhaust on the options list similar to Mercedes. Instead I have to fork out over £2k for the MPPSK (which is a must for me).
I realise I am going to average 25-30 mpg overall instead of 39mpg, and the long runs really work with the 640 - cruise control 70mph gives an easy 49-51 from cold start to stop.
But petrol engines on the whole are limited. Manufacturers driven by the EU etc have focused on diesel and electric forgetting petrol. the B58 is good, but what else to BMW offer that gives competition to their own diesel engines?
Now is the time for BMW to step up with a decent low CO2 / NOX 2.0 engine that also gives some decent efficiency. A better 'sporty' hybrid version with 270+ bhp.
A B58 with additional hybrid power could be a bit of a weapon with 380bhp.
What you said about a petrol 6 cylinder hybrid did happen. The ActiveHybrid3 and 5 were the same type of car but sales were low and dealers eventually cut the prices enough that they would shift (just about did in the end)So the 6 has been a nice car in that the interior is stunning (excluding lack of rear space) and the car looks great. I really don't get why folks buy a used 435d Coupe over the bargain 640d.
But it is a big car so not as much fun and the key to me is the engine. Yes, it's torquey, especially chipped and it's reasonably quick, but it's no fun and sounds rubbish.
I enjoy the 550 mile range and I like the fact I only fill it twice a month, but I'll happily give that up for a little more character and soul.
The 440i is far from perfect. The engine is too linear and sounds muted, BMW need to offer a switchable £1000 exhaust on the options list similar to Mercedes. Instead I have to fork out over £2k for the MPPSK (which is a must for me).
I realise I am going to average 25-30 mpg overall instead of 39mpg, and the long runs really work with the 640 - cruise control 70mph gives an easy 49-51 from cold start to stop.
But petrol engines on the whole are limited. Manufacturers driven by the EU etc have focused on diesel and electric forgetting petrol. the B58 is good, but what else to BMW offer that gives competition to their own diesel engines?
Now is the time for BMW to step up with a decent low CO2 / NOX 2.0 engine that also gives some decent efficiency. A better 'sporty' hybrid version with 270+ bhp.
A B58 with additional hybrid power could be a bit of a weapon with 380bhp.
I imangine that the demand for these cars will now boom with diesels becoming less popular.
the problem is unless you are buying new in some situations there is no choice!
I am looking to buy an F31 touring at the moment, and having owned petrol E30, E46 and E90s in both 4 and 6 cylinder i would love a petrol F31, but on the used market they just do not exist.
My budget of £14k for a 3-4 year old car with 60-80k miles for a good spec M-sport model, i can only get a 320d so that is what i will buy! diesel may not be the most ideal for my 12k miles a year 35 mile a day motorway commute but if i cant buy a petrol i have no choice, so diesel it is.
I am looking to buy an F31 touring at the moment, and having owned petrol E30, E46 and E90s in both 4 and 6 cylinder i would love a petrol F31, but on the used market they just do not exist.
My budget of £14k for a 3-4 year old car with 60-80k miles for a good spec M-sport model, i can only get a 320d so that is what i will buy! diesel may not be the most ideal for my 12k miles a year 35 mile a day motorway commute but if i cant buy a petrol i have no choice, so diesel it is.
VerySideways said:
I suspect the 440i will be a truly lovely thing. Well done!! Of course we'll expect pictures (on the Show Me Your BMW thread) when it arrives
Thanks!
I certainly will be taking lots of pics.
I've gone a bit bonkers with the M Performance stuff and also gone Individual with the interior!
Can't wait.
yes:
bought a new ( well, registered with 12 miles...) X5 30D
absolutely bloody love it.
Drove all the competition prior, and nothing could touch it for the price. (previously had a Cayenne Hybrid & a Turbo)
Being 'pre-reg' it did have circa 12K off list
it doesn't hang around either, and corners pretty reasonably for a big bus.
bought a new ( well, registered with 12 miles...) X5 30D
absolutely bloody love it.
Drove all the competition prior, and nothing could touch it for the price. (previously had a Cayenne Hybrid & a Turbo)
Being 'pre-reg' it did have circa 12K off list
it doesn't hang around either, and corners pretty reasonably for a big bus.
I have just bought a 335d xdrive, trading in a E36 323i. If I could hav bought a 6cyl NA I would have. It was a 335 out a Subaru BRZ, but I am not getting any younger and getting out of the BRZ may become hard! I keep my cars for 10years or more, so I am gambling that EURO6 emission diesels will still be UK (the low emissions zones being touted will be OK fo EURO 6 diesel). When I do come to replace this 335d, It will be time to settle into a hybrid, and we will probably only need one car - hence the 335d now.
Pica-Pica said:
I have just bought a 335d xdrive, trading in a E36 323i. If I could hav bought a 6cyl NA I would have. It was a 335 out a Subaru BRZ, but I am not getting any younger and getting out of the BRZ may become hard! I keep my cars for 10years or more, so I am gambling that EURO6 emission diesels will still be UK (the low emissions zones being touted will be OK fo EURO 6 diesel). When I do come to replace this 335d, It will be time to settle into a hybrid, and we will probably only need one car - hence the 335d now.
I just traded my 335d xdrive. Great car, with plenty of performance and economical to run. I really enjoyed it, hope you do to.A really interesting debate and one that I'm really struggling to reach a conclusion on.
Like Moffat, I currently drive a 640d grand coupe (leased), really like it.
Lease is up in a couple of months and am just about to buy a 530d xdrive touring, just had the saloon on loan for 3 days and was very impressed.
Now I do about 18k a year and with all this debate am really worrying about the residuals when I do come to sell it. If I went petrol the 530i just isn't quick enough, so it would have to be the 540i xdrive which is only £1k more than the diesel.....
I really need to make a decision
Like Moffat, I currently drive a 640d grand coupe (leased), really like it.
Lease is up in a couple of months and am just about to buy a 530d xdrive touring, just had the saloon on loan for 3 days and was very impressed.
Now I do about 18k a year and with all this debate am really worrying about the residuals when I do come to sell it. If I went petrol the 530i just isn't quick enough, so it would have to be the 540i xdrive which is only £1k more than the diesel.....
I really need to make a decision
travelbug63 said:
Lease is up in a couple of months and am just about to buy a 530d xdrive touring, just had the saloon on loan for 3 days and was very impressed.
Now I do about 18k a year and with all this debate am really worrying about the residuals when I do come to sell it. If I went petrol the 530i just isn't quick enough, so it would have to be the 540i xdrive which is only £1k more than the diesel.....
I really need to make a decision
I think you have.Now I do about 18k a year and with all this debate am really worrying about the residuals when I do come to sell it. If I went petrol the 530i just isn't quick enough, so it would have to be the 540i xdrive which is only £1k more than the diesel.....
I really need to make a decision
"...the 540i xdrive which is only £1k more..."
VerySideways said:
travelbug63 said:
Lease is up in a couple of months and am just about to buy a 530d xdrive touring, just had the saloon on loan for 3 days and was very impressed.
Now I do about 18k a year and with all this debate am really worrying about the residuals when I do come to sell it. If I went petrol the 530i just isn't quick enough, so it would have to be the 540i xdrive which is only £1k more than the diesel.....
I really need to make a decision
I think you have.Now I do about 18k a year and with all this debate am really worrying about the residuals when I do come to sell it. If I went petrol the 530i just isn't quick enough, so it would have to be the 540i xdrive which is only £1k more than the diesel.....
I really need to make a decision
"...the 540i xdrive which is only £1k more..."
Will a petrol 540i now become a residual winner? I really have my doubts to be honest...
Perhaps more time is needed for the dust to settle...no consolation for when the lease is ending shortly obviously.
travelbug63 said:
A really interesting debate and one that I'm really struggling to reach a conclusion on.
Like Moffat, I currently drive a 640d grand coupe (leased), really like it.
Lease is up in a couple of months and am just about to buy a 530d xdrive touring, just had the saloon on loan for 3 days and was very impressed.
Now I do about 18k a year and with all this debate am really worrying about the residuals when I do come to sell it. If I went petrol the 530i just isn't quick enough, so it would have to be the 540i xdrive which is only £1k more than the diesel.....
I really need to make a decision
I went from a 640d to a 335d x-drive, both great cars. I recently changed to a new 540i and so far love it.Like Moffat, I currently drive a 640d grand coupe (leased), really like it.
Lease is up in a couple of months and am just about to buy a 530d xdrive touring, just had the saloon on loan for 3 days and was very impressed.
Now I do about 18k a year and with all this debate am really worrying about the residuals when I do come to sell it. If I went petrol the 530i just isn't quick enough, so it would have to be the 540i xdrive which is only £1k more than the diesel.....
I really need to make a decision
The diesels were great but as you say the residuals may not be good. Take a test drive in a 540.
I do think there is a little sensationalism around diesels at the moment. I am no lover of them and can't wait to get rid, but if you are doing the mileage and the diesel is EURO 6 I don't think there is an issue. (My wife drives a diesel Evoque due to 20k per annum)
In fact it comes to personal preference and sacrifice. The 35d / 40d engine as old as it is now is still the best diesel out there for the money and performance. If I was doing 15k+ per annum, I would find the argument to go to a 440i difficult. I suppose it's made easier by the fact the 435d has SE suspension and XDrive, but still it would be heart over head.
It's different with the 540i, I really think the 530d will have better residuals in the long run as it's the 'sensible' choice. However, maybe the pick of the bunch will be the M550d...
To summarise you need to decide how much you really want a petrol car over a diesel, drive them both - drive normally and reset the ODB and see the difference on MPG - do some numbers, then do some man maths and make a decision.
In fact it comes to personal preference and sacrifice. The 35d / 40d engine as old as it is now is still the best diesel out there for the money and performance. If I was doing 15k+ per annum, I would find the argument to go to a 440i difficult. I suppose it's made easier by the fact the 435d has SE suspension and XDrive, but still it would be heart over head.
It's different with the 540i, I really think the 530d will have better residuals in the long run as it's the 'sensible' choice. However, maybe the pick of the bunch will be the M550d...
To summarise you need to decide how much you really want a petrol car over a diesel, drive them both - drive normally and reset the ODB and see the difference on MPG - do some numbers, then do some man maths and make a decision.
Even as someone who likes large petrol engines, having had 3 V8 BMWs, I find that the current crop of diesel engines are extremely well-suited to larger BMWs. In the type of car that you don't want to take to the red line, low down shove is preferable to high end power. The reverse is true for small cars - I would much rather have the 40i engine in a 1 Series than the 35d, which they sensibly don't offer in any case.
Interesting that (as mentioned before) some of the reviewers which I would expect to be enthusing about the 540i, have declared a preference fof the 530d http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/5-series/18586/bmw-540i-r...http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/bmw/bmw-5...
If I lived in London or drove there frequently, I might think twice about buying a diesel, even a Euro 6 one, but as I don't I would still choose diesel for a larger BMW.
Interesting that (as mentioned before) some of the reviewers which I would expect to be enthusing about the 540i, have declared a preference fof the 530d http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/5-series/18586/bmw-540i-r...http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/bmw/bmw-5...
If I lived in London or drove there frequently, I might think twice about buying a diesel, even a Euro 6 one, but as I don't I would still choose diesel for a larger BMW.
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