Comfort Access daily mail shocker
Discussion
smashy said:
its not just comfort access its Fobs as well the ones you press. The answer is simple enough wrap your spare in aluminium and get a RFID wallet for a tenner from Amazon for the one you use.
They are much less of an issue as the fob only gives out a signal once pressed. So a thief needs to wait for you to press the button on the key fob and then captures the signal. Much much harder that just grabbing a signal from a keyless device.moffat said:
They are much less of an issue as the fob only gives out a signal once pressed. So a thief needs to wait for you to press the button on the key fob and then captures the signal. Much much harder that just grabbing a signal from a keyless device.
Capturing the signal from a fob is useless - they work on a rolling code so it changes every time you use it. What you do have to be careful about is if the thieves jam the signal:https://www.engadget.com/2015/08/10/hacking-device...
Nowadays most premium car thefts in the UK are 'to order' by professional car criminal gangs, according to the last Police Annual Report on car thefts. The keyless entry thing is not relevant: the most stolen cars are all premiums (other than the Fiesta) and as such, are mainly 'to order' thefts, where you are identified and watched for some time ahead of the actual theft. And most premiums are keyless so this leads to the hacks inferring that all keyless cars are targets, which they aren't. And key or keyless won't make any difference: what is important is if you're on the Top Ten list:
Most stolen cars 2015-16 were SUVs: BMW X5, Audi Q7, Range Rover and Discovery, Mitsubishi. Closely followed by 5 Series and Audi S3/RS3. The latter took over top spot in 2016 from the X5.
BMW has a 'reputation' for being a target but a lot of this is to do with the X5 being the #1 stolen car in the UK 2015 - 8.5% of all stolen cars in 2015 were X5s (that's about 6,800! the majority of which are not recovered), and then the statistics aggregating all 5 Series together (when there's a lot of variation depending on which 5 model).
It is very hard to get back to the real source data. I did this recently and on returning found that the police agency involved has now taken it off the public web. I really do get irritated at this appearing regularly in the press and then everyone getting all agitated. Don't believe what you read in tracker, steering wheel lock or key bag websites - these people have a vested interest in hyping this up.
I'm not saying you should dispense with reasonable precautions. The same Police Report identifies an increasing proportion of keys are being stolen from people's homes (bogus meter readers; people in to work on the property; unlocked front doors in summer; "Can you get you Mum or Dad?" bogus windows salespeople when kids answer the door etc.). And in more and more cases, keys are taken, cloned and then returned without the owner realising, either in the home or when you're out and about. The latter possibly explaining the rise in "They've taken the car but I still have both sets of keys." syndrome.
And consider, if you're you're being targeted 'to order' then making it hard to get access by cloning is no deterrent at all to the gangs involved (these people may use low-levels as drivers but they are serious professionals). All it means is that they either (a) break into your home and take the keys, by force if necessary or (b) wait until you - inevitably - are getting into/out of your car and get them then.
I deprecate the keybag retailers who are implying that insurers are getting difficult over keyless theft. They absolutely are not (I've been working with one recently). As long as you take reasonable precautions, you'll be covered. But reasonable precautions will include points arising from the above i.e. making some effort to keep your keys in a sensible place, and not leaving it for a week using a second set of keys if you can't find your main set.
Most stolen cars 2015-16 were SUVs: BMW X5, Audi Q7, Range Rover and Discovery, Mitsubishi. Closely followed by 5 Series and Audi S3/RS3. The latter took over top spot in 2016 from the X5.
BMW has a 'reputation' for being a target but a lot of this is to do with the X5 being the #1 stolen car in the UK 2015 - 8.5% of all stolen cars in 2015 were X5s (that's about 6,800! the majority of which are not recovered), and then the statistics aggregating all 5 Series together (when there's a lot of variation depending on which 5 model).
It is very hard to get back to the real source data. I did this recently and on returning found that the police agency involved has now taken it off the public web. I really do get irritated at this appearing regularly in the press and then everyone getting all agitated. Don't believe what you read in tracker, steering wheel lock or key bag websites - these people have a vested interest in hyping this up.
I'm not saying you should dispense with reasonable precautions. The same Police Report identifies an increasing proportion of keys are being stolen from people's homes (bogus meter readers; people in to work on the property; unlocked front doors in summer; "Can you get you Mum or Dad?" bogus windows salespeople when kids answer the door etc.). And in more and more cases, keys are taken, cloned and then returned without the owner realising, either in the home or when you're out and about. The latter possibly explaining the rise in "They've taken the car but I still have both sets of keys." syndrome.
And consider, if you're you're being targeted 'to order' then making it hard to get access by cloning is no deterrent at all to the gangs involved (these people may use low-levels as drivers but they are serious professionals). All it means is that they either (a) break into your home and take the keys, by force if necessary or (b) wait until you - inevitably - are getting into/out of your car and get them then.
I deprecate the keybag retailers who are implying that insurers are getting difficult over keyless theft. They absolutely are not (I've been working with one recently). As long as you take reasonable precautions, you'll be covered. But reasonable precautions will include points arising from the above i.e. making some effort to keep your keys in a sensible place, and not leaving it for a week using a second set of keys if you can't find your main set.
Edited by msej449 on Wednesday 3rd May 15:00
I'm not disagreeing with your stats, but saying Keyless style thefts is "irrelevant" is simply not true.
I've just attended a vehicle crime conference and the key presenter (from the cyber crime part of the Home Office) has suggested that this is indeed an issue and is the preferred method for targetted and organised vehicle crime i.e. stolen to order as it doesn't involve breaking into the house and potentially aggressively taking the keys.
Keyless / Comfort can make it easier to steal a car.
I've just attended a vehicle crime conference and the key presenter (from the cyber crime part of the Home Office) has suggested that this is indeed an issue and is the preferred method for targetted and organised vehicle crime i.e. stolen to order as it doesn't involve breaking into the house and potentially aggressively taking the keys.
Keyless / Comfort can make it easier to steal a car.
Useful snippet (maybe) - if the Comfort access module fails (as they can do), the car won't start, unlock itself or do anything. Locating the module (normally in the boot behind drivers side trim panel) and unplugging it makes the car revert to normal 'blipping the remote' locking and it'l start and run.
Fairly common on E90 gen stuff.
Fairly common on E90 gen stuff.
Yes, 'irrelevant' was probably not the right term. More a case of 'Is your car more likely to be stolen because you have keyless, versus not?' And what I'm cautioning is that the answer for many will be 'No.' Because for the top 20 and certainly the top 10, keyless does nothing at all to increase the probability of you being a target for a theft 'to order' (excluding the Fiesta) which is the prodominant cause of theft. And opting for a simple key does nothing to decrease the odds. Trouble here is that we don't really have the stats to know for sure. And of course, no one can deny that having a conventional key means it can't be remotely cloned.
Yes, but what's annoying is that we get no specifics on this, and particularly which models are more likely to be stolen. Having researched this, there's no way I'd ever consider an X5, given that it's the most stolen car in the UK - and it's not that a high proportion of X5's get stolen, it's that it's the most stolen car out of the entire set of stolen cars. I want numbers: so yes, say that being keyless on my X5 reduces the probability of theft by 50%, buying a Q7 instead may reduce the probability of it being stolen by 400%. And statistically my keyless M235i is five times less likely to be stolen than a Ford Fiesta. And just what are we meant to look out for if we do have keyless already? What's the effective cloning range? How near does someone have to be for them to block my signal? It's all Forum speculation and tabloid headlines and alarming videos. Ignoring theft 'to order' which models are more vulnerable to cloning and blocking than others? Clearly, the professional criminals are all up-to-date on this, but the general public isn't. And what information that was in the public domain has been actively withdrawn.
Co-incidently to this thread, I rented a car with keyless (Ford Ecosport). It works in the same way as the bmw comfort access system, so is comparable.
After initially being interested in it and the novelty factor, I thought it was pointless and actually more of a faf than using the key to put in a slot.
First problem is what to do with the key? Usually chuck in door pocket.
Second problem, finding the key again when you arrive! The Ecoboost has a horizontal bottle compartment in the door pocket pocket and the key kept disappearing in that. Twice I had to restart the car to make sure it was still in close proximity haha.
In its defence, I can see how it is useful to have the unlock button on the cat itself (so easier if holding something heavy), but overall both my wife and I thought it was just additional faffing to overcome, rather than a convenience or a 'comfort'.
After initially being interested in it and the novelty factor, I thought it was pointless and actually more of a faf than using the key to put in a slot.
First problem is what to do with the key? Usually chuck in door pocket.
Second problem, finding the key again when you arrive! The Ecoboost has a horizontal bottle compartment in the door pocket pocket and the key kept disappearing in that. Twice I had to restart the car to make sure it was still in close proximity haha.
In its defence, I can see how it is useful to have the unlock button on the cat itself (so easier if holding something heavy), but overall both my wife and I thought it was just additional faffing to overcome, rather than a convenience or a 'comfort'.
Mike335i said:
Co-incidently to this thread, I rented a car with keyless (Ford Ecosport). It works in the same way as the bmw comfort access system, so is comparable.
After initially being interested in it and the novelty factor, I thought it was pointless and actually more of a faf than using the key to put in a slot.
First problem is what to do with the key? Usually chuck in door pocket.
Second problem, finding the key again when you arrive! The Ecoboost has a horizontal bottle compartment in the door pocket pocket and the key kept disappearing in that. Twice I had to restart the car to make sure it was still in close proximity haha.
In its defence, I can see how it is useful to have the unlock button on the cat itself (so easier if holding something heavy), but overall both my wife and I thought it was just additional faffing to overcome, rather than a convenience or a 'comfort'.
Put the key in your pocket maybe?After initially being interested in it and the novelty factor, I thought it was pointless and actually more of a faf than using the key to put in a slot.
First problem is what to do with the key? Usually chuck in door pocket.
Second problem, finding the key again when you arrive! The Ecoboost has a horizontal bottle compartment in the door pocket pocket and the key kept disappearing in that. Twice I had to restart the car to make sure it was still in close proximity haha.
In its defence, I can see how it is useful to have the unlock button on the cat itself (so easier if holding something heavy), but overall both my wife and I thought it was just additional faffing to overcome, rather than a convenience or a 'comfort'.
Then you know where it is and don't have to take it out when opening, starting and locking car?
If you haven't got the bmer key and the car is started the car tells you so.
We've got a few BMWs at work. As an experiment the other day, I left one with the engine running (in the secure yard). The fob thing was in my pocket, I went into the building, up three floors in a lift, down into the basement and did a few jobs while inside.
When I came back out, it was still running! It's apparent that once started, the fob doesn't need to be anywhere near the car. The steering lock is worked by an electric motor by the sound of it, which again undoes itself when you get in. Does not lock again until you press the button on the dash to turn everything off.
My daily is an e46 with a simple key. I have never found it overly taxing pushing a button to unlock it, nor putting it in the ignition to start.
My children laugh at my Luddite tendencies, however things like this help convince me that I'm right.
When I came back out, it was still running! It's apparent that once started, the fob doesn't need to be anywhere near the car. The steering lock is worked by an electric motor by the sound of it, which again undoes itself when you get in. Does not lock again until you press the button on the dash to turn everything off.
My daily is an e46 with a simple key. I have never found it overly taxing pushing a button to unlock it, nor putting it in the ignition to start.
My children laugh at my Luddite tendencies, however things like this help convince me that I'm right.
LanceRS said:
We've got a few BMWs at work. As an experiment the other day, I left one with the engine running (in the secure yard). The fob thing was in my pocket, I went into the building, up three floors in a lift, down into the basement and did a few jobs while inside.
When I came back out, it was still running! It's apparent that once started, the fob doesn't need to be anywhere near the car. The steering lock is worked by an electric motor by the sound of it, which again undoes itself when you get in. Does not lock again until you press the button on the dash to turn everything off.
My daily is an e46 with a simple key. I have never found it overly taxing pushing a button to unlock it, nor putting it in the ignition to start.
My children laugh at my Luddite tendencies, however things like this help convince me that I'm right.
That's correct - same with a normal key with the engine running - apart if it's stolen you've lost the key as well. Iirc if stop/start on, once it stops it will not restart on keyless if the key is not near by.When I came back out, it was still running! It's apparent that once started, the fob doesn't need to be anywhere near the car. The steering lock is worked by an electric motor by the sound of it, which again undoes itself when you get in. Does not lock again until you press the button on the dash to turn everything off.
My daily is an e46 with a simple key. I have never found it overly taxing pushing a button to unlock it, nor putting it in the ignition to start.
My children laugh at my Luddite tendencies, however things like this help convince me that I'm right.
I've got them on my 7 series, the drivers side doesn't work, but the passengers does, apparently the comfort door handles are a common fault. Also when not working they are a battery drain. The source of this info was a BMW tech, his solution..... remove door cards and unplug the handle! apparently that is the usual fix as a new handle is very expensive, and owners car batteries are going flat when not used for a week or so.
I haven't done this yet, so cant confirm, but its only my list of things to do, i assume this would make your car safe from this type of car theft. but it might have impact on other things like the door handle lights etc.
I haven't done this yet, so cant confirm, but its only my list of things to do, i assume this would make your car safe from this type of car theft. but it might have impact on other things like the door handle lights etc.
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