130i........doesn't feel as fast as it should?
Discussion
I like both cars for different reasons but would probably choose the 130i because I like the big torquey engine and RWD.
The Golf being entirely subjective is probably a better alrounder but Golf's leaving me feeling cold. It does everything well but after owning a few, I never just wanted to get in any of them and drive them.
I've always liked the idea of a largish engine in a small RWD car with character so for me, I'd choose the 130i everytime.
The Golf being entirely subjective is probably a better alrounder but Golf's leaving me feeling cold. It does everything well but after owning a few, I never just wanted to get in any of them and drive them.
I've always liked the idea of a largish engine in a small RWD car with character so for me, I'd choose the 130i everytime.
Scobblelotcher said:
I like both cars for different reasons but would probably choose the 130i because I like the big torquey engine and RWD.
The problem is that the N52 3 litre N/A engine isn't actually that torquey though, and the 2 litre 4 pot turbo engine I had in a Audi TTS had more torque and so does the Golf GTI. Historically I've always preferred a bigger N/A engine but the N52 gets turned over in performance terms easily nowadays, the 130i does 0 to 60 just over 6 secs and the previous generation Audi TTS did it in 5.2 secs(current 4.7), maybe I'm just too hung up on numbers though!!
I genuinely find it hard to believe that anyone can call the N52 a torquey engine, it's as flat as a pancake for me regards torque.
cerb4.5lee said:
The problem is that the N52 3 litre N/A engine isn't actually that torquey though, and the 2 litre 4 pot turbo engine I had in a Audi TTS had more torque and so does the Golf GTI.
Historically I've always preferred a bigger N/A engine but the N52 gets turned over in performance terms easily nowadays, the 130i does 0 to 60 just over 6 secs and the previous generation Audi TTS did it in 5.2 secs(current 4.7), maybe I'm just too hung up on numbers though!!
I genuinely find it hard to believe that anyone can call the N52 a torquey engine, it's as flat as a pancake for me regards torque.
yeah this is what swung it for me, hard to describe how much more low down torque/ urge the mapped GTI I drove has! Historically I've always preferred a bigger N/A engine but the N52 gets turned over in performance terms easily nowadays, the 130i does 0 to 60 just over 6 secs and the previous generation Audi TTS did it in 5.2 secs(current 4.7), maybe I'm just too hung up on numbers though!!
I genuinely find it hard to believe that anyone can call the N52 a torquey engine, it's as flat as a pancake for me regards torque.
anyway I am clogging up the BMW forum with golf chat!
better be off!
Cheers Paul
paul n said:
cerb4.5lee said:
The problem is that the N52 3 litre N/A engine isn't actually that torquey though, and the 2 litre 4 pot turbo engine I had in a Audi TTS had more torque and so does the Golf GTI.
Historically I've always preferred a bigger N/A engine but the N52 gets turned over in performance terms easily nowadays, the 130i does 0 to 60 just over 6 secs and the previous generation Audi TTS did it in 5.2 secs(current 4.7), maybe I'm just too hung up on numbers though!!
I genuinely find it hard to believe that anyone can call the N52 a torquey engine, it's as flat as a pancake for me regards torque.
yeah this is what swung it for me, hard to describe how much more low down torque/ urge the mapped GTI I drove has! Historically I've always preferred a bigger N/A engine but the N52 gets turned over in performance terms easily nowadays, the 130i does 0 to 60 just over 6 secs and the previous generation Audi TTS did it in 5.2 secs(current 4.7), maybe I'm just too hung up on numbers though!!
I genuinely find it hard to believe that anyone can call the N52 a torquey engine, it's as flat as a pancake for me regards torque.
anyway I am clogging up the BMW forum with golf chat!
better be off!
I think the word "mapped" says it all - if torque is what you want just get a 123d and have it mapped!
I had a 123d (unmapped) for over 6 years, but since buying a Z4 Coupe with the N52 engine I still regret having chosen a 123d instead of a 130i - it may not have the same torque, but it has enough and at least it revs easily to the red line instead of getting asthma!
Much more my sort of thing - but then many years ago when I was immortal my bikes were nearly always 2 strokes.
Cheers Paul
Mr Tidy said:
I think the word "mapped" says it all - if torque is what you want just get a 123d and have it mapped!
I had a 123d (unmapped) for over 6 years, but since buying a Z4 Coupe with the N52 engine I still regret having chosen a 123d instead of a 130i - it may not have the same torque, but it has enough and at least it revs easily to the red line instead of getting asthma!
Much more my sort of thing - but then many years ago when I was immortal my bikes were nearly always 2 strokes.
You can't really compare a diesel to a petrol though, and the 2 litre petrol turbo in the Golf/etc still revs pretty much as high as the N52, yet offers much more punch lower down and doesn't run out of puff. I had a 123d (unmapped) for over 6 years, but since buying a Z4 Coupe with the N52 engine I still regret having chosen a 123d instead of a 130i - it may not have the same torque, but it has enough and at least it revs easily to the red line instead of getting asthma!
Much more my sort of thing - but then many years ago when I was immortal my bikes were nearly always 2 strokes.
I've had a E92 M3(V8/4 litre/N/A) and that revved to high heaven at 8400rpm...shame it felt completely gutless under 6000rpm though because of its lack of torque, trust me torque makes a big difference to how an engine feels, and sadly I've lost my love for low torque N/A engines big time, and it's turbo's for me going forward for sure.
It's horses for courses though and some prefer N/A and some prefer Turbo's.
It isn't torque that makes the n52 great, it's the instant response of the engine to even minor throttle inputs. No matter how good turbos are, they are never as crisp or as responsive.
I have had turbos for years now including diesels, 4 pot petrols and now a 6 pot petrol. Naturally, my current one is by far the best I've owned, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't really, really impressed with the n52 the Z4si that I drove. The crisp response made up for the lack of turbo torque.
I have had turbos for years now including diesels, 4 pot petrols and now a 6 pot petrol. Naturally, my current one is by far the best I've owned, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't really, really impressed with the n52 the Z4si that I drove. The crisp response made up for the lack of turbo torque.
Mike335i said:
It isn't torque that makes the n52 great, it's the instant response of the engine to even minor throttle inputs. No matter how good turbos are, they are never as crisp or as responsive.
I have had turbos for years now including diesels, 4 pot petrols and now a 6 pot petrol. Naturally, my current one is by far the best I've owned, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't really, really impressed with the n52 the Z4si that I drove. The crisp response made up for the lack of turbo torque.
If I had a 335i I would be slating the N52 engine because it's slow/thirsty/untuneable in comparison, so fair play for sticking up for its one and only quality! I have had turbos for years now including diesels, 4 pot petrols and now a 6 pot petrol. Naturally, my current one is by far the best I've owned, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't really, really impressed with the n52 the Z4si that I drove. The crisp response made up for the lack of turbo torque.
cerb4.5lee said:
If I had a 335i I would be slating the N52 engine because it's slow/thirsty/untuneable in comparison, so fair play for sticking up for its one and only quality!
I had a mapped 335i Touring that was seriously quick, but compared with the 30i it was boring. It was arguably better on the motorway where lazy driving is the order of the day, maybe.
The 30i is more economical than the 35i, but you're right not as tuneable.
As I get older, fatter and lazier, turbos cars become more appealing, because in general there is no work involved with them, but the lack of effort is why I find them so dull as well.
cerb4.5lee said:
You can't really compare a diesel to a petrol though, and the 2 litre petrol turbo in the Golf/etc still revs pretty much as high as the N52, yet offers much more punch lower down and doesn't run out of puff.
I've had a E92 M3(V8/4 litre/N/A) and that revved to high heaven at 8400rpm...shame it felt completely gutless under 6000rpm though because of its lack of torque, trust me torque makes a big difference to how an engine feels, and sadly I've lost my love for low torque N/A engines big time, and it's turbo's for me going forward for sure.
It's horses for courses though and some prefer N/A and some prefer Turbo's.
You are so right - it certainly is horses for courses! There is no "right" answer - but it's N/A petrol for me now (well, for now)! I've had a E92 M3(V8/4 litre/N/A) and that revved to high heaven at 8400rpm...shame it felt completely gutless under 6000rpm though because of its lack of torque, trust me torque makes a big difference to how an engine feels, and sadly I've lost my love for low torque N/A engines big time, and it's turbo's for me going forward for sure.
It's horses for courses though and some prefer N/A and some prefer Turbo's.
I blame your change of allegiance on that 640d you had!
Anyway if it's turbo's for you now that doesn't sit too well with your user name - I don't remember any Cerberas with a turbo.....!
But so long as we all like what we have then it doesn't really matter what powers it!
(I can still see a 130i as a likely replacement for my E46 325ti Compact - nothing else appeals or has RWD and a straight 6).
Edited by Mr Tidy on Sunday 25th June 00:32
cerb4.5lee said:
I always remember you saying that.
I think I am lucky that I have loads of nice roads up here where working the engine is rewarding. I have a NA 3.5 E350 Merc estate for slopping up and down the M11 to London which is also really nice, so smooth in its delivery, but...I do wonder if a nice E43 AMG 380hp turbo might be even nicer for that?
gizlaroc said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I always remember you saying that.
I think I am lucky that I have loads of nice roads up here where working the engine is rewarding. I have a NA 3.5 E350 Merc estate for slopping up and down the M11 to London which is also really nice, so smooth in its delivery, but...I do wonder if a nice E43 AMG 380hp turbo might be even nicer for that?
cerb4.5lee said:
The problem is that the N52 3 litre N/A engine isn't actually that torquey though, and the 2 litre 4 pot turbo engine I had in a Audi TTS had more torque and so does the Golf GTI.
Historically I've always preferred a bigger N/A engine but the N52 gets turned over in performance terms easily nowadays, the 130i does 0 to 60 just over 6 secs and the previous generation Audi TTS did it in 5.2 secs(current 4.7), maybe I'm just too hung up on numbers though!!
I genuinely find it hard to believe that anyone can call the N52 a torquey engine, it's as flat as a pancake for me regards torque.
You can't really compare the 0-60 times witj an AWD car with a DSG though. Historically I've always preferred a bigger N/A engine but the N52 gets turned over in performance terms easily nowadays, the 130i does 0 to 60 just over 6 secs and the previous generation Audi TTS did it in 5.2 secs(current 4.7), maybe I'm just too hung up on numbers though!!
I genuinely find it hard to believe that anyone can call the N52 a torquey engine, it's as flat as a pancake for me regards torque.
I think a lot of it is how quick Turbo cars "feel". That shove of torque can make it feel quicker than it actually is. I guess it goes back to the old NA vs FI debate rather than being 130i specific.
Personally I think the N52 is a great engine. Gets 35mpg on the way to work and back (which my mapped golf couldn't get near), cruises up and down the motorway with ease. Then this morning on a random drive the sound above 5000rpm is awesome, blipping the throttle on downshifts is a joy and then showed a mapped Focus ST a clean pair of heels.
Good luck with your purchase though Paul! A rear anti roll bar is supposed to make a massive difference to the Golfs handling.
The GTI can be a really quick with some good mods. It might not sound the same as a 6 or have the same RWD feel, but it can still be a rioy to drive.
Mods wise I would suggest:
Tyres - michelin ps4 or Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 3, really important to get good rubber as otherwise you'll struggle for traction.
Suspension - I would recommend an anti lift kit like the white line or super pro ones. Really reduces the 'power on' front end lift you get with fwd cars. Rear anti roll bar and possibly a suspension lowering kit could help, but that is very subjective.
Good quality intake, catless downpipe (keep the main cat or replace with a sorts cat though), maybe a front mounted Intercooler and then a custom map from R Tech in Leicestershire. It will probably get you to about 280hp and 300+Lb/ft ish. Beyond that you'd need S3 injectors and a K04 turbo conversion.
Maintanance:
It would also be worth looking into an intake decoke as these get clogged up due to being direct injection. Reduces power and responsiveness over time.
Also use the best quality oils (think it's vw spec 507) and change regularly. I would recommend one lying running on 98+ fuel, especially if mapped. The car will run on 95 fine, but will use a touch more fuel and produce a touch less hp.
Keep on top of wheel alignment as the rears can sawtooth and wear quickly of badly set up.
Beware of wheel speed sensors (g44 fault) and the ABS / Esp module going (infamous g201 fault). Try turning the Esp off, if the light does not come in then someone might have disabled the light in the dash!
Check rear wash wipe works OK as the pipes come loose and leak into the boot. Also check carpets in the front for signs of damp as water ingress can come from a blocked scuttle drain.
Drivers side bolster are known to sag over time.
Get yourself a Bluetooth obd2 scanner (or a WiFi one if you are an apple user) and the Carista app, as this would enable you to do make / model specific diagnostic and some coding (adaptations such as alarm beep, light behaviour etc etc) really easily.
Hope that helps
Mods wise I would suggest:
Tyres - michelin ps4 or Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 3, really important to get good rubber as otherwise you'll struggle for traction.
Suspension - I would recommend an anti lift kit like the white line or super pro ones. Really reduces the 'power on' front end lift you get with fwd cars. Rear anti roll bar and possibly a suspension lowering kit could help, but that is very subjective.
Good quality intake, catless downpipe (keep the main cat or replace with a sorts cat though), maybe a front mounted Intercooler and then a custom map from R Tech in Leicestershire. It will probably get you to about 280hp and 300+Lb/ft ish. Beyond that you'd need S3 injectors and a K04 turbo conversion.
Maintanance:
It would also be worth looking into an intake decoke as these get clogged up due to being direct injection. Reduces power and responsiveness over time.
Also use the best quality oils (think it's vw spec 507) and change regularly. I would recommend one lying running on 98+ fuel, especially if mapped. The car will run on 95 fine, but will use a touch more fuel and produce a touch less hp.
Keep on top of wheel alignment as the rears can sawtooth and wear quickly of badly set up.
Beware of wheel speed sensors (g44 fault) and the ABS / Esp module going (infamous g201 fault). Try turning the Esp off, if the light does not come in then someone might have disabled the light in the dash!
Check rear wash wipe works OK as the pipes come loose and leak into the boot. Also check carpets in the front for signs of damp as water ingress can come from a blocked scuttle drain.
Drivers side bolster are known to sag over time.
Get yourself a Bluetooth obd2 scanner (or a WiFi one if you are an apple user) and the Carista app, as this would enable you to do make / model specific diagnostic and some coding (adaptations such as alarm beep, light behaviour etc etc) really easily.
Hope that helps
Mike335i said:
The GTI can be a really quick with some good mods. It might not sound the same as a 6 or have the same RWD feel, but it can still be a rioy to drive.
Mods wise I would suggest:
Tyres - michelin ps4 or Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 3, really important to get good rubber as otherwise you'll struggle for traction.
Suspension - I would recommend an anti lift kit like the white line or super pro ones. Really reduces the 'power on' front end lift you get with fwd cars. Rear anti roll bar and possibly a suspension lowering kit could help, but that is very subjective.
Good quality intake, catless downpipe (keep the main cat or replace with a sorts cat though), maybe a front mounted Intercooler and then a custom map from R Tech in Leicestershire. It will probably get you to about 280hp and 300+Lb/ft ish. Beyond that you'd need S3 injectors and a K04 turbo conversion.
Maintanance:
It would also be worth looking into an intake decoke as these get clogged up due to being direct injection. Reduces power and responsiveness over time.
Also use the best quality oils (think it's vw spec 507) and change regularly. I would recommend one lying running on 98+ fuel, especially if mapped. The car will run on 95 fine, but will use a touch more fuel and produce a touch less hp.
Keep on top of wheel alignment as the rears can sawtooth and wear quickly of badly set up.
Beware of wheel speed sensors (g44 fault) and the ABS / Esp module going (infamous g201 fault). Try turning the Esp off, if the light does not come in then someone might have disabled the light in the dash!
Check rear wash wipe works OK as the pipes come loose and leak into the boot. Also check carpets in the front for signs of damp as water ingress can come from a blocked scuttle drain.
Drivers side bolster are known to sag over time.
Get yourself a Bluetooth obd2 scanner (or a WiFi one if you are an apple user) and the Carista app, as this would enable you to do make / model specific diagnostic and some coding (adaptations such as alarm beep, light behaviour etc etc) really easily.
Hope that helps
many thanks for the advice! yeah I always get fresh rubber all around when I buy a new car so will try from eagle f1'sMods wise I would suggest:
Tyres - michelin ps4 or Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 3, really important to get good rubber as otherwise you'll struggle for traction.
Suspension - I would recommend an anti lift kit like the white line or super pro ones. Really reduces the 'power on' front end lift you get with fwd cars. Rear anti roll bar and possibly a suspension lowering kit could help, but that is very subjective.
Good quality intake, catless downpipe (keep the main cat or replace with a sorts cat though), maybe a front mounted Intercooler and then a custom map from R Tech in Leicestershire. It will probably get you to about 280hp and 300+Lb/ft ish. Beyond that you'd need S3 injectors and a K04 turbo conversion.
Maintanance:
It would also be worth looking into an intake decoke as these get clogged up due to being direct injection. Reduces power and responsiveness over time.
Also use the best quality oils (think it's vw spec 507) and change regularly. I would recommend one lying running on 98+ fuel, especially if mapped. The car will run on 95 fine, but will use a touch more fuel and produce a touch less hp.
Keep on top of wheel alignment as the rears can sawtooth and wear quickly of badly set up.
Beware of wheel speed sensors (g44 fault) and the ABS / Esp module going (infamous g201 fault). Try turning the Esp off, if the light does not come in then someone might have disabled the light in the dash!
Check rear wash wipe works OK as the pipes come loose and leak into the boot. Also check carpets in the front for signs of damp as water ingress can come from a blocked scuttle drain.
Drivers side bolster are known to sag over time.
Get yourself a Bluetooth obd2 scanner (or a WiFi one if you are an apple user) and the Carista app, as this would enable you to do make / model specific diagnostic and some coding (adaptations such as alarm beep, light behaviour etc etc) really easily.
Hope that helps
what suspension do you recommend. ride comfort and rough road handling would be my two main priorities.
I would like to remain at standard ride height or maybe drop 20mm max (I am not interested in the look at all just performance on real roads) I have been look at the b12 kit but some reviews say it is quite harsh! I would really like the ohlins stuff but far too much coin!
anti lift kit was on my shopping list as well as a rear anti roll bar (which one would you say?)
remap wise I was thinking APR stage 1 or maybe stage 2 as we have a dealer close here and they seem to have good reviews! recommendation on what downpipe and intake systems are best would be appreciated (it's a minefield! )
will get the carbon clean done, is terraclean any good? seems like mixed reviews!
final thing would be brakes! maybe s3 brakes?
Cheers Paul
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