130i........doesn't feel as fast as it should?
Discussion
ManaghGB said:
New Michelin Pilot SuperSports on it all round. It was mapped to stage 2 on the standard KO3 turbo but with an upgraded fuel pump for a bit more. ~280bhp and 300ft/lb. Used to spin the wheels in the wet in third and even in second one wheel would break traction.
Yeah mine is a pre-facelift with Bilstein suspension, M3 lower arms, fully polybusged, Eibach roll bar front and rear and LSD.
It's a high spec car and the way it drives really shows.
BMW is better on fuel as well driven the same way if that matters to you at all.
ok so your BMW is not standard then!! sounds like a nice set up! if I did decide to get a 130i then I would want to do similar mods to help the ride/ handling but the costs add up eh! Yeah mine is a pre-facelift with Bilstein suspension, M3 lower arms, fully polybusged, Eibach roll bar front and rear and LSD.
It's a high spec car and the way it drives really shows.
BMW is better on fuel as well driven the same way if that matters to you at all.
was the traction control not effective at helping with spinning wheels in the wet? I don't know how good the vw system is?
Cheers Paul
ManaghGB said:
If you've got a spare half an hour this thread is an interesting read. The OP sold the 130i for an E90 M3 and ended up buying it back as he preferred it.
He's also got the car up for sale at the moment with all the suspension work already done.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=14...
just read this He's also got the car up for sale at the moment with all the suspension work already done.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=14...
seems like it takes a lot of work to get it to handle well and good to see it isn't just ne that thinks the standard M sport suspension is rubbish!
I think like of like on standard cars the golf has the edge in terms of handling and ride but after mods the BMW?
interesting to see his car up for sale! anybody else think 9-10k is a lot to ask? lovely car with the mods but everybody knows that you don't' get back what you pay for mods! and the car without the mods is probably a 4-5k car so it's 5k for the mods! I know he could strip the parts but 5k for the parts and the hassle of changing everything back over?
also don't like the colour! .......but like the bike rack idea!
hmmm still leaning towards the golf I think or a car like this with mods done for a more realistic price!...........in a nice colour!
p
gizlaroc said:
What is it you don't like about the handling?
So many people write of the 130i as they try it with run flats, it was never designed for run flats, in Germany you couldn't buy it with run flats. BMW UK specced them with run flats and so many people still have them on run flats and it is shockingly bad.
Get it off run flats and it comfy, grips well and bites hard in corners.
The only issue I have with it is the fact it can be a bit too soft.
The guy who did the mods to birds suspension etc said it was over damped and under sprung which is exactly what I thought when driving it and seems to be he verdict from reviews of it on bumper roads or when pushing on. if I got one I would definitely look to change the suspension! So many people write of the 130i as they try it with run flats, it was never designed for run flats, in Germany you couldn't buy it with run flats. BMW UK specced them with run flats and so many people still have them on run flats and it is shockingly bad.
Get it off run flats and it comfy, grips well and bites hard in corners.
The only issue I have with it is the fact it can be a bit too soft.
anyway looks like I might have bought a golf in the end. high miles and abit tatty but cheap so gives me cash to do the mods!
the wife will definitely prefer he golf! will see how I get on.........I will probably hate it and end up buying a BMW!
many thanks for everybody's input!
Cheers Paul
cerb4.5lee said:
The problem is that the N52 3 litre N/A engine isn't actually that torquey though, and the 2 litre 4 pot turbo engine I had in a Audi TTS had more torque and so does the Golf GTI.
Historically I've always preferred a bigger N/A engine but the N52 gets turned over in performance terms easily nowadays, the 130i does 0 to 60 just over 6 secs and the previous generation Audi TTS did it in 5.2 secs(current 4.7), maybe I'm just too hung up on numbers though!!
I genuinely find it hard to believe that anyone can call the N52 a torquey engine, it's as flat as a pancake for me regards torque.
yeah this is what swung it for me, hard to describe how much more low down torque/ urge the mapped GTI I drove has! Historically I've always preferred a bigger N/A engine but the N52 gets turned over in performance terms easily nowadays, the 130i does 0 to 60 just over 6 secs and the previous generation Audi TTS did it in 5.2 secs(current 4.7), maybe I'm just too hung up on numbers though!!
I genuinely find it hard to believe that anyone can call the N52 a torquey engine, it's as flat as a pancake for me regards torque.
anyway I am clogging up the BMW forum with golf chat!
better be off!
Cheers Paul
Mike335i said:
The GTI can be a really quick with some good mods. It might not sound the same as a 6 or have the same RWD feel, but it can still be a rioy to drive.
Mods wise I would suggest:
Tyres - michelin ps4 or Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 3, really important to get good rubber as otherwise you'll struggle for traction.
Suspension - I would recommend an anti lift kit like the white line or super pro ones. Really reduces the 'power on' front end lift you get with fwd cars. Rear anti roll bar and possibly a suspension lowering kit could help, but that is very subjective.
Good quality intake, catless downpipe (keep the main cat or replace with a sorts cat though), maybe a front mounted Intercooler and then a custom map from R Tech in Leicestershire. It will probably get you to about 280hp and 300+Lb/ft ish. Beyond that you'd need S3 injectors and a K04 turbo conversion.
Maintanance:
It would also be worth looking into an intake decoke as these get clogged up due to being direct injection. Reduces power and responsiveness over time.
Also use the best quality oils (think it's vw spec 507) and change regularly. I would recommend one lying running on 98+ fuel, especially if mapped. The car will run on 95 fine, but will use a touch more fuel and produce a touch less hp.
Keep on top of wheel alignment as the rears can sawtooth and wear quickly of badly set up.
Beware of wheel speed sensors (g44 fault) and the ABS / Esp module going (infamous g201 fault). Try turning the Esp off, if the light does not come in then someone might have disabled the light in the dash!
Check rear wash wipe works OK as the pipes come loose and leak into the boot. Also check carpets in the front for signs of damp as water ingress can come from a blocked scuttle drain.
Drivers side bolster are known to sag over time.
Get yourself a Bluetooth obd2 scanner (or a WiFi one if you are an apple user) and the Carista app, as this would enable you to do make / model specific diagnostic and some coding (adaptations such as alarm beep, light behaviour etc etc) really easily.
Hope that helps
many thanks for the advice! yeah I always get fresh rubber all around when I buy a new car so will try from eagle f1'sMods wise I would suggest:
Tyres - michelin ps4 or Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 3, really important to get good rubber as otherwise you'll struggle for traction.
Suspension - I would recommend an anti lift kit like the white line or super pro ones. Really reduces the 'power on' front end lift you get with fwd cars. Rear anti roll bar and possibly a suspension lowering kit could help, but that is very subjective.
Good quality intake, catless downpipe (keep the main cat or replace with a sorts cat though), maybe a front mounted Intercooler and then a custom map from R Tech in Leicestershire. It will probably get you to about 280hp and 300+Lb/ft ish. Beyond that you'd need S3 injectors and a K04 turbo conversion.
Maintanance:
It would also be worth looking into an intake decoke as these get clogged up due to being direct injection. Reduces power and responsiveness over time.
Also use the best quality oils (think it's vw spec 507) and change regularly. I would recommend one lying running on 98+ fuel, especially if mapped. The car will run on 95 fine, but will use a touch more fuel and produce a touch less hp.
Keep on top of wheel alignment as the rears can sawtooth and wear quickly of badly set up.
Beware of wheel speed sensors (g44 fault) and the ABS / Esp module going (infamous g201 fault). Try turning the Esp off, if the light does not come in then someone might have disabled the light in the dash!
Check rear wash wipe works OK as the pipes come loose and leak into the boot. Also check carpets in the front for signs of damp as water ingress can come from a blocked scuttle drain.
Drivers side bolster are known to sag over time.
Get yourself a Bluetooth obd2 scanner (or a WiFi one if you are an apple user) and the Carista app, as this would enable you to do make / model specific diagnostic and some coding (adaptations such as alarm beep, light behaviour etc etc) really easily.
Hope that helps
what suspension do you recommend. ride comfort and rough road handling would be my two main priorities.
I would like to remain at standard ride height or maybe drop 20mm max (I am not interested in the look at all just performance on real roads) I have been look at the b12 kit but some reviews say it is quite harsh! I would really like the ohlins stuff but far too much coin!
anti lift kit was on my shopping list as well as a rear anti roll bar (which one would you say?)
remap wise I was thinking APR stage 1 or maybe stage 2 as we have a dealer close here and they seem to have good reviews! recommendation on what downpipe and intake systems are best would be appreciated (it's a minefield! )
will get the carbon clean done, is terraclean any good? seems like mixed reviews!
final thing would be brakes! maybe s3 brakes?
Cheers Paul
Just to finish up this thread so it may be helpful to other people in a similar situation.
I finally got a new car and it ended up being a golf GTI edition 30 with a revo stage 1 remap so about 300bhp.
I was very very close to buying my friends M135i but after a second test drive I realised I need 5 doors and I think I would prefer the auto versions I think it would mate very well to the incredible engine! it's almost hard to keep up with it with the manual box!
Ironically my other friend bough my mates M135 I so tonight we went for a wee spin and in the same loop in both cars and it was quite revealing. They are both great cars and very similar in pace. The engine in the BMW is amazing and sound awesome but the wee golf engine with 300bhp packs a hell of punch! Both cars have "issues" with traction in the wet! but coming from AWD Subaru's in a way this makes it quite exciting as you have to really measure when to apply throttle! Both have incredible amounts of torque which really sells the cars as it means that can be a comfortable cruisers one minute and then savage beasts the next! I think that is the 1 think the 130i was missing for me! it's nice to work the gear box but sometimes it is great to be able to cruise and chillout and still have overtaking urge! I have had lots of all out performance/ track cars but for a family hatch back it needs to be an all-rounder!
Handling wise the golf is probably easier to throw down a wet road with a little bit of safe understeer built in and it is my friends first rear wheel drive car so he is timid right now! The BMW is probably more rewarding when you get it right but the golf if a fun wee car at speed!
I did have a pang of regret then I was in the BMW that I didn't buy it but the golf was under half the cost so I think I made the right choice! I think I will get a M135i in the future but in 2-3 years when they are close to 10k and I would get 5 door and an auto!
Ironically I started this thread about a 130i ended up buying a golf and will most probably buy a m135 in the future! funny which turns the car buying journey takes!
cheers Paul
I finally got a new car and it ended up being a golf GTI edition 30 with a revo stage 1 remap so about 300bhp.
I was very very close to buying my friends M135i but after a second test drive I realised I need 5 doors and I think I would prefer the auto versions I think it would mate very well to the incredible engine! it's almost hard to keep up with it with the manual box!
Ironically my other friend bough my mates M135 I so tonight we went for a wee spin and in the same loop in both cars and it was quite revealing. They are both great cars and very similar in pace. The engine in the BMW is amazing and sound awesome but the wee golf engine with 300bhp packs a hell of punch! Both cars have "issues" with traction in the wet! but coming from AWD Subaru's in a way this makes it quite exciting as you have to really measure when to apply throttle! Both have incredible amounts of torque which really sells the cars as it means that can be a comfortable cruisers one minute and then savage beasts the next! I think that is the 1 think the 130i was missing for me! it's nice to work the gear box but sometimes it is great to be able to cruise and chillout and still have overtaking urge! I have had lots of all out performance/ track cars but for a family hatch back it needs to be an all-rounder!
Handling wise the golf is probably easier to throw down a wet road with a little bit of safe understeer built in and it is my friends first rear wheel drive car so he is timid right now! The BMW is probably more rewarding when you get it right but the golf if a fun wee car at speed!
I did have a pang of regret then I was in the BMW that I didn't buy it but the golf was under half the cost so I think I made the right choice! I think I will get a M135i in the future but in 2-3 years when they are close to 10k and I would get 5 door and an auto!
Ironically I started this thread about a 130i ended up buying a golf and will most probably buy a m135 in the future! funny which turns the car buying journey takes!
cheers Paul
RUSTLE said:
Very different. I’ve just got rid of an ep3 track car, tuned to 240hp and stripped weighing 1118kg. That thing sounded mental off the vtec, but around a lap of Bedford GT was no quicker than road spec 130i at 1450kg. This was last year with my race partner driving the ep3 (we’re within 1/100th of each other at every track). The 130 doesn’t feel or sound as urgent in its power Delivery and feels slow up the red line after a vtec, but it delivers better drive out of corners and gets on the Power earlier with its torque and rwd than the Ep3 which I think evens it up over a track like before. The ep3 (after a year of track driving, some Racing, and some driver coaching) did turn out to be 2 secs quicker around brands indy than the 130i. But, and here’s the but, I had to choose between the two and couldn’t shake the 130. It’s now being modded for track and I reckon it’ll be a match in time. However, as a sense of occasion (noise, urgency etc etc) That tuned vtec in a Stripped shell is going to be hard to beat. I’ll have another one day, hopefully in a kit car or integra dc2.
What mods have you done for the track ? I am looking to take mine on the track and trying to decide what order to do mods. The brakes seem very good on the road (the best I have used on a "normal" road car) I have the m sport suspension which again feels like it will be ok on track as it's pretty low and hard (I think it might be lowered) . If it performs well I will probably save up for an lsd and I think Meister r coilovers as I had these on my SC mx5 And very impressed with them for track/ road. It needs new track rod ends so I was thinking of replacing the whole steering rack with a reconditioned M3 rack ?
To update from having mine for 2 weeks. Absolutely love it! The engine noise, the RWD balance and traction and the steering feel just make it so much more fun to drive that the golf. It deffinaly does not feel as quick but I think in the real world it is not far off! Deffinatly needs a different driving style and you need to drop a gear more to really move but it sounds so nice at the top end I don't mind!
Also the wife prefers it so that's a bonus
RUSTLE said:
If you don't mind i might PM you for more info on the Meisters as i think you are the first person i have heard of running them on a 130i. I like the idea that you can wind them nearly full hard for the track and basically not get any body roll. In a way i think that is better than changing anti roll bars to a really tiff set up. Do you have a set of Geo fiquares for the meister's with the extra camber
Brakes i think i will do a pad and fluid swap first and see how i go. I never do long stints anyway.
For this car i thinking 3-4 track days a year if i am lucky and a daily driver the rest of the time.
I know it will feel heavy on track (i have had a westfield and a caterham as well as the MX5 so know what difference weight makes!) but as long as it is well balanced and fun then that is all good. I have a square set up on the tyres right now and that feels pretty good in terms of balance. Tyres are eagle F1 which i heard are abit soft on track so i might get a spare set of wheels with some more dedicated track day tyres unless somebody can recommend a tyre that will do track days (and not melt!) and also good for road use?
As i say i am use to very light cars on track so never had to really worry about wearing out tyres, pads and disks etc!
Cheers Paul
DRCAGE said:
Thank you for the concise reply, I've only just seen this!
They really are both great cars (I've still got my Honda, couldn't shake it!) but as you say, just different in their delivery, I'm 99% sure it's down to my 130 being due a bit of proper TLC, even just cleaning the air filter has definitely made it a bit keener.
They are both modified pretty heavily, the Honda by me and the BMW by previous owners, the 130 is definitely track spec ATM so really need to make it a bit more road freindly! I started a build thread but haven't added much. Spec is on there https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... There's a kit car in there too!
A friend had a standard 130i and the modded Honda was every bit as quick when we did the North Coast 500!
your LE looks like it has some nice upgrades! very jealous! i will keep up with your build thread to see future developments. I have had a Westfield in the past (not an XT2) which i miss loads but with baby here now the BMW is going to have to fill the void for abit and hopefully be a good all-rounder! had it a few weeks now and still love starting her up!
Cheers Paul
They really are both great cars (I've still got my Honda, couldn't shake it!) but as you say, just different in their delivery, I'm 99% sure it's down to my 130 being due a bit of proper TLC, even just cleaning the air filter has definitely made it a bit keener.
They are both modified pretty heavily, the Honda by me and the BMW by previous owners, the 130 is definitely track spec ATM so really need to make it a bit more road freindly! I started a build thread but haven't added much. Spec is on there https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... There's a kit car in there too!
A friend had a standard 130i and the modded Honda was every bit as quick when we did the North Coast 500!
your LE looks like it has some nice upgrades! very jealous! i will keep up with your build thread to see future developments. I have had a Westfield in the past (not an XT2) which i miss loads but with baby here now the BMW is going to have to fill the void for abit and hopefully be a good all-rounder! had it a few weeks now and still love starting her up!
Cheers Paul
Edited by DRCAGE on Wednesday 24th January 17:41
Random update............for anybody who is interested! (or on a similar car buying journey to me)
so had the 130i for 7 months, sold it yesterday and today ..........bought another 130i!
so to cut a long story short i bought a 130i with 145k on the clock, great car but after a track day last week i had a big list of things that i wanted to upgrade! (brakes, LSD, suspension) Step forward a week and i found a car with all the upgrade done already (i am busy/lazy and not that great mechanically!) My old car got sold to a mate and i flew to wales to pick up the new steed!
spec is
M3 rear subframe,
M3 anti roll bars,
M3 controls arms
M3 LSD
M135i brakes
light weight wheels and track tyres
B12 shocks
M3 steering rack (holy cow this is good!)
what a difference! bloody hell, an incredibly handling/ fun car! basically the car BMW should have built in the first place!
very excited for the next track day!
The is it fast enough question is firmly put to bed! ......my question should have been is is fun enough!..............it is now!
Cheers Paul
so had the 130i for 7 months, sold it yesterday and today ..........bought another 130i!
so to cut a long story short i bought a 130i with 145k on the clock, great car but after a track day last week i had a big list of things that i wanted to upgrade! (brakes, LSD, suspension) Step forward a week and i found a car with all the upgrade done already (i am busy/lazy and not that great mechanically!) My old car got sold to a mate and i flew to wales to pick up the new steed!
spec is
M3 rear subframe,
M3 anti roll bars,
M3 controls arms
M3 LSD
M135i brakes
light weight wheels and track tyres
B12 shocks
M3 steering rack (holy cow this is good!)
what a difference! bloody hell, an incredibly handling/ fun car! basically the car BMW should have built in the first place!
very excited for the next track day!
The is it fast enough question is firmly put to bed! ......my question should have been is is fun enough!..............it is now!
Cheers Paul
survivalist said:
Nice car, noticed this up on ebay as I still have a search running from earlier in the year (ended up buying one with the Birds Suspension Package, LSD etc).
Would be very interested in a bit more detail on the M3 Steering Rack, especially as you've recently come from a standard 130i. Is it just faster? Or does it also provide better feedback, heavier etc?
I was torn between upgrading my old car with the birds dynamic package or buying this one but went of this one in the end as it had all the M3 bits and brakes done as well. Also as i will be using it on track i had read that the birds set up with a little soft, I might go for meister r coilovers in the future if the b12 are not stiff enough for the track but so far incredibly impressed with them on the road! Would be very interested in a bit more detail on the M3 Steering Rack, especially as you've recently come from a standard 130i. Is it just faster? Or does it also provide better feedback, heavier etc?
Regarding the steering rack it makes a huge difference (although so much else is different it is hard to tell if it is all down to the rack) Steering is alot faster and the feel is alot better...... i would go as far as to say that it has better steering feel that my old mark 1 mx5.............and not far off of my caterham (i know that sounds crazy but it is that good!)
it is heavy at car park speeds but as soon as you are rolling it it fine.
hope this helps
Cheers Paul
survivalist said:
Thanks. Like you I was lacking the time to build something up, so I did the same and bought a car that had had almost everything done. Often works out cheaper as well, as you never get your money back on mods.
The Birds package is a bit soft on the track, it's the smaller A and B roads with rubbish road surface where it really shines. I did a 45 min session at Silverstone with it and if I was planning on doing loads of track days I'd definitely want something stiffer.
That's a glowing review on the steering, might have to look into sourcing a used M3 rack.
Think the heavy low speed steering is down to the servotronic steering on the M3 that can vary the assistance. Guess the 130i doesn't have the relevant module to control it so you get a single, consistent level of assistance.
yes the heavy steering is down to the lack of sevrotronic unit. apparently you can do wire in a switch to turn it on and off which i might look into as the wife just drive it for the first time and said it was heavy at slow speed but i will probably just see how she goes! She was cuffed with the better ride and better stereo although she did notice a wine from the diff at town speeds that i hadn't even picked up! might need to change the oil. The Birds package is a bit soft on the track, it's the smaller A and B roads with rubbish road surface where it really shines. I did a 45 min session at Silverstone with it and if I was planning on doing loads of track days I'd definitely want something stiffer.
That's a glowing review on the steering, might have to look into sourcing a used M3 rack.
Think the heavy low speed steering is down to the servotronic steering on the M3 that can vary the assistance. Guess the 130i doesn't have the relevant module to control it so you get a single, consistent level of assistance.
price wise yes i think they will firm up now on price for good ones. people still have this weird obsession with low mileage (and panic if anything is over 100k) when in reality the N52 engine is bomb proof for hundreds of thousands of miles with proper servicing. I would 100 percent rather have a car with 105k and all the bits refreshed than a car with 60k and on original parts. I think one of the reason my new car rides so well is that all the bushing etc are all done at the same time. Also the M3 rear sub-frame seems to eliminate and bounce/ woolliness at the rear) Honestly drives like a new car!
PTF said:
Interesting. A mate is doing an evening at Donington next week and has asked me if i fancy joining him.
My first thought was to take my Boxster but i think it'll fall foul of noise limits (it has an exhaust bypass mod).
So now thinking about taking my 130i. It's an SE model and totally standard. Feels like it'll be ok, undoubtedly too soft and the brakes will melt, but it'll be...erm...fun!!?? Desperate to swap the run flats for PS4s so it's an excuse to get the tyres worn down a bit!
Worth doing a quick brake mod before next week? ATE fluid and some better front pads??
yeah go for it! to be fair the brakes held up ok for standard kit. they did grumble abit but didn't' fade as i we only did short stints and didn't go mad! If i was doing it again on standard brakes i would go for the ATE fluid at a first stop and then better pads once i had worn out the olds one!My first thought was to take my Boxster but i think it'll fall foul of noise limits (it has an exhaust bypass mod).
So now thinking about taking my 130i. It's an SE model and totally standard. Feels like it'll be ok, undoubtedly too soft and the brakes will melt, but it'll be...erm...fun!!?? Desperate to swap the run flats for PS4s so it's an excuse to get the tyres worn down a bit!
Worth doing a quick brake mod before next week? ATE fluid and some better front pads??
only issue with taking it on track is your come away wanting to do lots of upgrades! ........but anything that means you dtich the runflats at the end of it will be a good thing!
to be honest i wasn't bowled over by my first 130i (but i could see it had potential!)...................This one with the mods! wow what a difference!............really does feel special/ exciting!
out of the mods i have i would say the M3 steering rack and the suspension (with better geo with M3 parts) make the biggest difference, the LSD is awesome as well but not something you are going to use everyday!
cheers p
out of the mods i have i would say the M3 steering rack and the suspension (with better geo with M3 parts) make the biggest difference, the LSD is awesome as well but not something you are going to use everyday!
cheers p
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