E91 Straight Six Bearding

[Mr Tidy]

survivalist said:

Mr Tidy said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Very nice and a lovely colour combo. Chuffed that you eventually got hold of a 330i because I know you'd fancied one for a while.

Thanks.

I liked the 325i, but compared to my Z4 Coupe it just felt a bit "flat" - the 330i doesn't!

That’s interesting. One of the things I really liked about the 325i was the change in urgency above 4000rpm. That was 10 years ago though, so may be wearing rose tinted spectacles. Now have a 130i and am considering the evolve remap which is said to do just that to the 3L N52.

I think all the N52s get that extra urgency above 4,000 rpm, but what I have noticed is how much more grunt my 330i has even at 2,000 rpm than my 325i had.

When I join the M3 from the M25 there is a mile or two with 50 mph average cameras, then when it ends you just want to get back up towards the NSL. In the 325i to make any decent progress you needed to drop it from 6th to 4th, but my 330i seems to do it just as quick left in 6th! (But you can always drop a few gears for more fun)!

FWIW I don't think a remap will make that much difference to a 130i/330i/Z4 3.0Si - they all make 265/258/265 PS - but it makes a huge difference to a 125i which has the same N52 3 litre engine, but as standard it's only rated at 218 PS for some reason.

[rallycross]

Mr Tidy said:

FWIW I don't think a remap will make that much difference to a 130i/330i/Z4 3.0Si - they all make 265/258/265 PS - but it makes a huge difference to a 125i which has the same N52 3 litre engine, but as standard it's only rated at 218 PS for some reason.

Last year when I had both a 125i and a 130i I got the 125i remapped (2009 3.0 car) and it transformed the car making it back to what the engine was supposed to be like not a strangled version as the 125i/325i 3.0 is released from the factory. There is nothing in the 125i that is different from the 130i apart from the ECU, so its well worth doing it (it cost me £250 and transformed the 125i).

[Swervin_Mervin]

330i in the garage all last week for the fuel filler breather hose fix, and to determine the source of an oil leak. I don't think the breather hose job was popular. ops: Only got charged for the quoted 4hr labour time on it though - as usual Darren Wood providing excellent service

Oil leak prime suspect was the filter housing gasket, so new one of those fitted, and the bay steam cleaned to monitor for in future. Looks almost like new under there!



No return yet of the misfire. Since clearing the codes it's been running super sweet. I can't work out if it's because the ambient temps have come up just a few degrees since it last played up, with the engine that bit warmer (at cold startup) than previous - it only ever did it cold under load.

Either way, car is feeling sweet - not bad for 13yrs old and only a few miles short of 120k. Next job is going to be cosmetic, tidying up the front end which is a bit of a mess. Then who knows. May not keep it much longer, even though I still love it. 7yrs and 63k is the longest I've ever kept a car by some margin and I think it's time to change.

[bodhi]

rallycross said:

Mr Tidy said:

FWIW I don't think a remap will make that much difference to a 130i/330i/Z4 3.0Si - they all make 265/258/265 PS - but it makes a huge difference to a 125i which has the same N52 3 litre engine, but as standard it's only rated at 218 PS for some reason.

Last year when I had both a 125i and a 130i I got the 125i remapped (2009 3.0 car) and it transformed the car making it back to what the engine was supposed to be like not a strangled version as the 125i/325i 3.0 is released from the factory. There is nothing in the 125i that is different from the 130i apart from the ECU, so its well worth doing it (it cost me £250 and transformed the 125i).

I had this done as well, it really is night and day difference between the two states of tune. Before it was very much as described, quick enough, but didn't really kick on past 4000 rpm and wasn't especially interested in the last 1000 rpm - now there is a definite change as the VANOS changes profile, and it zings round to the redline superbly now.

Sadly I don't think the same remap is available to 325i owners, as I seem to remember the 325i having a different intake to the 330i. It may be possible to swap parts, but it may be easier just to buy a 330i in the first place.

It does make me laugh on other threads when I see people suggest the N52 is "gutless" - maybe it's as mine only has a 1 Series to cart around, but as long as you have 2000 rpm on the clock (lower in 2nd/3rd and even 4th), put your foot down and it just picks up. Going from 40 to just below 3 figures in 3rd never ceases to amuse

[gizlaroc]

bodhi said:

It does make me laugh on other threads when I see people suggest the N52 is "gutless" - maybe it's as mine only has a 1 Series to cart around, but as long as you have 2000 rpm on the clock (lower in 2nd/3rd and even 4th), put your foot down and it just picks up. Going from 40 to just below 3 figures in 3rd never ceases to amuse

N52 is far from gutless, it is the engine that I found myself saying I now get what people mean when they say "It just wants to rev!".
It is so eager to get up into the higher rpm range.


I think we might have a generation of people who have never really known anything but forced induction engines?

The joy of NA is instant throttle (fly by wire has killed this a little) and the fact it is so linear, one mans gutless in low revs is super smooth when cruising around.

[cerb4.5lee]

gizlaroc said:

bodhi said:

It does make me laugh on other threads when I see people suggest the N52 is "gutless" - maybe it's as mine only has a 1 Series to cart around, but as long as you have 2000 rpm on the clock (lower in 2nd/3rd and even 4th), put your foot down and it just picks up. Going from 40 to just below 3 figures in 3rd never ceases to amuse

N52 is far from gutless, it is the engine that I found myself saying I now get what people mean when they say "It just wants to rev!".
It is so eager to get up into the higher rpm range.


I think we might have a generation of people who have never really known anything but forced induction engines?

The joy of NA is instant throttle (fly by wire has killed this a little) and the fact it is so linear, one mans gutless in low revs is super smooth when cruising around.

Obviously it isn't a fair fight between forced induction and natural aspiration but because I'd been used to a E90 330d for so many years...when I got my E90 330i that genuinely felt flat to me low down in comparison.

I also still currently notice a big difference in power delivery between my Mini Cooper S and 370Z. Max power is at 7000rpm in the 370Z so you need loads of revs before it feels urgent(and it is a heavy car), whereas torque comes in mega low in the Mini(2 litre turbo) at 1200rpm(relatively light car) so it just feels to me loads more lively lower down.

I do think that a turbo fools you a bit in that they feel quicker than they actually are, whereas with a N/A engine you either need a light car or loads of bhp for them to actually feel really fast for me. For example my Cerbera never left me wanting performance wise whereas both my E92 M3/370Z did/does.

[stevesuk]

Swervin_Mervin said:

Oil leak prime suspect was the filter housing gasket, so new one of those fitted, and the bay steam cleaned to monitor for in future. Looks almost like new under there!

Ours is still consuming almost as much oil, even after having all visible leaks addressed (filter housing, valve cover gasket etc.).

I reckon we're using 1 Litre every 2,000 to 3,000 miles - which I know is within tolerance (according to BMW), but I'm used to having cars that don't require a top-up at all between services.

It's weird - the exhaust tips are clean and there's no sign of oil in the engine bay, so I'm confused as to where it goes

Past caring now... buying a 4L container of Castrol once per year is now just part of the running costs, and it doesn't seem to be doing the car any harm.

[cerb4.5lee]

stevesuk said:

Swervin_Mervin said:

Oil leak prime suspect was the filter housing gasket, so new one of those fitted, and the bay steam cleaned to monitor for in future. Looks almost like new under there!

Ours is still consuming almost as much oil, even after having all visible leaks addressed (filter housing, valve cover gasket etc.).

I reckon we're using 1 Litre every 2,000 to 3,000 miles - which I know is within tolerance (according to BMW), but I'm used to having cars that don't require a top-up at all between services.

It's weird - the exhaust tips are clean and there's no sign of oil in the engine bay, so I'm confused as to where it goes

Past caring now... buying a 4L container of Castrol once per year is now just part of the running costs, and it doesn't seem to be doing the car any harm.

I always wondered where my oil kept going in my E90 330i(N52), it consistently used 1 litre of oil every 2k miles but the exhaust tips were always clean and it didn't drop any on the garage floor.

I just got into a routine of adding 1 litre of oil when the car asked for it.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Mine probably asks for 1l every 3-4k. I don't monitor it much tbh, just top it up when it wants.

It'll most likely be burning off properly I'd think.

[zippyonline]

Ah, missed a few things on here!

MajorMantra said:

MajorMantra said:

Has anyone had any issues with their power steering? Mine suddenly feels oddly light and vague today and I can't pin down why. I thought I detected a slight humming when turning right at low speed.

Does a failing power steering pump seem most likely?

EDIT: My power steering fluid is ever so slightly below the low mark. I'd be surprised if it could make that much difference, but I'll top it up and see...

Edited by MajorMantra on Saturday 27th April 15:14

Sorry, quoting myself... Reading around it seems possible it could be the steering rack rather than the pump. Anyone got any pointers on making a definitive diagnosis?

No experience re: power steering on the bmw, but I did have asymmetric steering on my RX-8 (assisted more one way than the other) – that’s an electric rack and was to do with torque sensor on mine, but often it’s the wiring loom corroding/earth points. Doubt the helps, but it’s a bit more info to throw in the puzzle!

gizlaroc said:

bodhi said:

It does make me laugh on other threads when I see people suggest the N52 is "gutless" - maybe it's as mine only has a 1 Series to cart around, but as long as you have 2000 rpm on the clock (lower in 2nd/3rd and even 4th), put your foot down and it just picks up. Going from 40 to just below 3 figures in 3rd never ceases to amuse

N52 is far from gutless, it is the engine that I found myself saying I now get what people mean when they say "It just wants to rev!".
It is so eager to get up into the higher rpm range.


I think we might have a generation of people who have never really known anything but forced induction engines?

The joy of NA is instant throttle (fly by wire has killed this a little) and the fact it is so linear, one mans gutless in low revs is super smooth when cruising around.

I concur. My other car is an RX-8, that makes the 330i feel torquey, they both love to rev! To be honest, on a twisty A road or a faster B road, if you keep the revs above 4.5k the car is so agile (and it feels like a big lump compared to the rex), it’s so controllable/adjustable and the pace it can manage whilst being still quite composed (birds suspension helps I expect) still impresses me. I can pick any lane at my local roundabout and know I’ll get away quick enough at the traffic light GP I can go off at any exit without cutting anyone up, a 320d tried to outdrag me up the new Newtown bypass the other day and it just disappeared into the background!! Still impressed by mine.

As an aside, I’m sitting at 53.5mph average speed since the battery was last disconnected back in November about 6k miles ago – this car is ace!

stevesuk said:

Ours is still consuming almost as much oil, even after having all visible leaks addressed (filter housing, valve cover gasket etc.).

I reckon we're using 1 Litre every 2,000 to 3,000 miles - which I know is within tolerance (according to BMW), but I'm used to having cars that don't require a top-up at all between services.

It's weird - the exhaust tips are clean and there's no sign of oil in the engine bay, so I'm confused as to where it goes

Past caring now... buying a 4L container of Castrol once per year is now just part of the running costs, and it doesn't seem to be doing the car any harm.

Re: Oil, I think I put about 1 to 1.5 litres in every 6k miles (when I change my oil). I have a leaking sump though, (and a new sump gasket and bolts…but not fitted yet!). I did my oil filter housing in the last 6 months – that had literally just started leaking though…no other visible leaks and nothing obvious at the tailpipes – that’s pretty good for nearly 212k miles I guess.

[dave_s13]

Re the issue of remapping the 25i badged cars.

As I understand it, the N53 325i can be bumped up to 330i levels of power with just the map. I think the intakes are different but it's not just the intake its the throttle mapping that changes or something.

I'm itching to get my wifes E93 done as although it's not slow by any means it just feels a bit "flat", then you look down and you're in licence losing territory. It's a joy to drive when the suns out too :-)

[stevesingo]

RE Oil Consumption, my 78,000mile 330i N52 doesn't require top ups between oil changes (8-9kmile).

I genuinely believe it is down to the way they are run in from new. The first owner of mine was BMW UK, so it is unlikely that it wasn't give a hard time from new, bedding the rings in nicely.

[Swervin_Mervin]

stevesingo said:

RE Oil Consumption, my 78,000mile 330i N52 doesn't require top ups between oil changes (8-9kmile).

I genuinely believe it is down to the way they are run in from new. The first owner of mine was BMW UK, so it is unlikely that it wasn't give a hard time from new, bedding the rings in nicely.

IME it's the other way around that helps. Take it to the red line every now and again when new, and don't sit at constant revs anywhere for a while (e.g. motorway). That's what beds the rings in properly, and the latter is supposed to avoid any glazing of the bores.

I redlined my 197 from the dealership forecourt with 20mi on it (warmed up obvs), and the following day embarrassed a newish Focus ST off the lights. That Clio was one of the few I knew of that never required topping up between service intervals - most needed oil every couple of k, and had been run in by grannying. The only thing I did do was new oil at 1k, which wasn't as per the service schedule (supposed to be 18k first service).

[bodhi]

gizlaroc said:

bodhi said:

It does make me laugh on other threads when I see people suggest the N52 is "gutless" - maybe it's as mine only has a 1 Series to cart around, but as long as you have 2000 rpm on the clock (lower in 2nd/3rd and even 4th), put your foot down and it just picks up. Going from 40 to just below 3 figures in 3rd never ceases to amuse

N52 is far from gutless, it is the engine that I found myself saying I now get what people mean when they say "It just wants to rev!".
It is so eager to get up into the higher rpm range.


I think we might have a generation of people who have never really known anything but forced induction engines?

The joy of NA is instant throttle (fly by wire has killed this a little) and the fact it is so linear, one mans gutless in low revs is super smooth when cruising around.

Yep, that is one of the many things I love about the N52, smooth and docile when pottering around, drop a cog or two and it turns into an absolute animal. However since the remap I've found it particularly difficult to get caught in the "wrong" gear. Could also be a difference between the old ZF6 gearbox and the manual in mine.

But add that in to the soundtrack, the fact it's pretty decent on fuel if you know how to drive it (I've had it showing 41.7 mpg after 160 miles up the M1/M6) ,how quickly it gets up to temperature (warm air after 5 minutes even in the depths of winter) and the turbine like smoothness, it's the best engine I've pedaled. I've done 1500 miles in a 430i with the 2 litre Turbo that replaced it, and that felt like a step down. Bit more torque low down, but inferior in every other way, apart from Fuel Consumption where the two were remarkably evenly matched.

But ah, oil. Mine is also on the 1 litre every 2000 miles bandwagon. No sign of any leaks but I do have remarkably filthy exhaust pipes, however it flies through any emissions testing so I'm not entirely sure where it's going. The guy who looks after the car for me isn't concerned, so I've decided not to be either.

Plus our local Tesco normally has 2 litres of LL04 Spec 5W30 for £6 (£12 if the offer isn't on) so not disastrous, financially speaking - unless it decides it needs some when I'm on the motorway, then it's £20 a litre.....

[Swervin_Mervin]

On the gutless thing - Maybe it's just me but I've really started to notice recently how short of grunt it is, relatively speaking. Things have moved on a lot, and I now find quite often that I'm being pushed along by some fairly mundane stuff on the local d/c.

That's not because the N52 is especially short on power, just that modern turbots with the 7/8 speed boxes have become much quicker. Our old F20 125i had the same pwr/wt yet would hit 60 a whole second quicker. Our 272 Superb will do it in 5.6s.

I think that's why I've started to think about changing so much recently. Time to get into something with more grunt. If I had more space I'd keep the 330i for a long, long time I'm sure. Sadly I don't.

[cerb4.5lee]

Swervin_Mervin said:

On the gutless thing - Maybe it's just me but I've really started to notice recently how short of grunt it is, relatively speaking. Things have moved on a lot, and I now find quite often that I'm being pushed along by some fairly mundane stuff on the local d/c.

That's not because the N52 is especially short on power, just that modern turbots with the 7/8 speed boxes have become much quicker. Our old F20 125i had the same pwr/wt yet would hit 60 a whole second quicker. Our 272 Superb will do it in 5.6s.

I think that's why I've started to think about changing so much recently. Time to get into something with more grunt. If I had more space I'd keep the 330i for a long, long time I'm sure. Sadly I don't.

I notice similar with the 370Z and I had a Seat of some sort the other day pushing me and I changed down and floored it and he kept up with me easily. You need lots of power to shake off turbo cars nowadays for sure.

Your Superb would batter the 370Z out on the road no problem. The 370Z has 330bhp but the way it delivers the power means that it only really gets going near its redline(very similar to the N52).

[ferrisbueller]

Swervin_Mervin said:

On the gutless thing - Maybe it's just me but I've really started to notice recently how short of grunt it is, relatively speaking. Things have moved on a lot, and I now find quite often that I'm being pushed along by some fairly mundane stuff on the local d/c.

That's not because the N52 is especially short on power, just that modern turbots with the 7/8 speed boxes have become much quicker. Our old F20 125i had the same pwr/wt yet would hit 60 a whole second quicker. Our 272 Superb will do it in 5.6s.

I think that's why I've started to think about changing so much recently. Time to get into something with more grunt. If I had more space I'd keep the 330i for a long, long time I'm sure. Sadly I don't.

0-60 is 5.9s and the long gearing doesn't help there. The 125i is 6.5?

No question the proportion of cars that can do the numbers has increased and their flexibility is more impressive but the nature of the delivery isn't better and the overall proposition isn't more appealing. I can live without whistles and bells and technologies I don't use or need. Depreciation can sod off, too.

[stevesingo]

Swervin_Mervin said:

stevesingo said:

RE Oil Consumption, my 78,000mile 330i N52 doesn't require top ups between oil changes (8-9kmile).

I genuinely believe it is down to the way they are run in from new. The first owner of mine was BMW UK, so it is unlikely that it wasn't give a hard time from new, bedding the rings in nicely.

IME it's the other way around that helps. Take it to the red line every now and again when new, and don't sit at constant revs anywhere for a while (e.g. motorway). That's what beds the rings in properly, and the latter is supposed to avoid any glazing of the bores.

I redlined my 197 from the dealership forecourt with 20mi on it (warmed up obvs), and the following day embarrassed a newish Focus ST off the lights. That Clio was one of the few I knew of that never required topping up between service intervals - most needed oil every couple of k, and had been run in by grannying. The only thing I did do was new oil at 1k, which wasn't as per the service schedule (supposed to be 18k first service).

I think we are i agreement.

[Swervin_Mervin]

ferrisbueller said:

Swervin_Mervin said:

On the gutless thing - Maybe it's just me but I've really started to notice recently how short of grunt it is, relatively speaking. Things have moved on a lot, and I now find quite often that I'm being pushed along by some fairly mundane stuff on the local d/c.

That's not because the N52 is especially short on power, just that modern turbots with the 7/8 speed boxes have become much quicker. Our old F20 125i had the same pwr/wt yet would hit 60 a whole second quicker. Our 272 Superb will do it in 5.6s.

I think that's why I've started to think about changing so much recently. Time to get into something with more grunt. If I had more space I'd keep the 330i for a long, long time I'm sure. Sadly I don't.

0-60 is 5.9s and the long gearing doesn't help there. The 125i is 6.5?

No question the proportion of cars that can do the numbers has increased and their flexibility is more impressive but the nature of the delivery isn't better and the overall proposition isn't more appealing. I can live without whistles and bells and technologies I don't use or need. Depreciation can sod off, too.

330i is 6.6s to 60. 125i with the Sport Auto version of the ZF8 was 5.8s to 60.

I don't disagree with you regarding delivery etc. The Superb is very undramatic and the 125i engine I just could never love as it felt wheezy (oddly) and sounded like a fart through a Peco Big Bore 4.

If I do change it will be for a NA V8 of some sort. Always been a NA man.

[ferrisbueller]

Swervin_Mervin said:

ferrisbueller said:

Swervin_Mervin said:

On the gutless thing - Maybe it's just me but I've really started to notice recently how short of grunt it is, relatively speaking. Things have moved on a lot, and I now find quite often that I'm being pushed along by some fairly mundane stuff on the local d/c.

That's not because the N52 is especially short on power, just that modern turbots with the 7/8 speed boxes have become much quicker. Our old F20 125i had the same pwr/wt yet would hit 60 a whole second quicker. Our 272 Superb will do it in 5.6s.

I think that's why I've started to think about changing so much recently. Time to get into something with more grunt. If I had more space I'd keep the 330i for a long, long time I'm sure. Sadly I don't.

0-60 is 5.9s and the long gearing doesn't help there. The 125i is 6.5?

No question the proportion of cars that can do the numbers has increased and their flexibility is more impressive but the nature of the delivery isn't better and the overall proposition isn't more appealing. I can live without whistles and bells and technologies I don't use or need. Depreciation can sod off, too.

330i is 6.6s to 60. 125i with the Sport Auto version of the ZF8 was 5.8s to 60.

I don't disagree with you regarding delivery etc. The Superb is very undramatic and the 125i engine I just could never love as it felt wheezy (oddly) and sounded like a fart through a Peco Big Bore 4.

If I do change it will be for a NA V8 of some sort. Always been a NA man.

6.6 for the auto.