E91 Straight Six Bearding
Discussion
I had a hesitation on my 330i, if you pressed the throttle fully down or even blipped it while in park it would stutter and and almost felt like it could stall, then suddenly pick up and be fine.
Suspected the usual suspects, poor fuel, disa valves, vac leaks, eccentric shaft senor, camshaft solenoid valves, check valve, maf, the list is endless and could have been any one of those.
I scanned it and read the data, nothing of note, bugger!
Two tanks of 99 ron now so presume it is not crap fuel. So....
I decided on Monday to spend the day stripping it down, looking at the condition of the disa valves etc. before ordering parts. Problem is, two disa valves, couple of solenoids and eccentric sensor which are the main culprits could be a grand and still could be other bits and bobs.
Anyway, after getting the larger disa valve out and expecting it to be in bits, or at least not stuck open as it should be, I was suprised to see it looked like new, then the maf, again not even the slightest sign of age and it said 003619 on it, which I think is Wk 36 or 2019, so again new.
Hmm? Looked at the eccentric shaft sensor plug for any signs of oil? Nope, clean as a whistle, in fact new clean looking.
This got me looking on line, seems this misfire from low revs is very common, the only issue is many just live with it, they change every thing that can cause it and still have the problem.
This got me thinking, how can you change everything and still have the issue?
Adaptions maybe?
As these cars senors etc. wear the readings they send to the ECU change, obviously, but what does the ECU do? It doesn't just say "Oh look, that is not right!"
No, it adapts to make sure the car still runs as best it can.
So if it adapts how far can it adapt? Well I guess it keeps going until something is out of range and then you will get a EML.
This then got me thinking that you can't throw new sensors on the car and expect it to just work. You need to tell the car you have done it. You need to reset the adaptations and tell the car everything is back to spec.
Maybe I didn't need any parts? Maybe they had already been put in by the previous owner, but they had not sorted the issue, might have been better, but it wasn't right, so he got rid of it.
Maybe I just needed to reset the adaptations?
I got all excited and ran out to the garage with my Snap On in hand.
Plugged it in and.....no adaptation reset option anywhere. Bugger again!
Laptop? Cable? INPA?
Oh, got now windows laptop and my Macbook Air doesn't have enough space to give up to a windows partition.
Laptop ordered for next day delivery, should be here by the time I'm back from work in Holburn, give me something to do in the evening.
Right, INPA 5.0.0 won't run on the latest windows 10 as VM Ware has been locked out.
Great, that means 5.0.6 and that is all in German.
Anyway, got up and running, went to the engine, found reset all adaptations and pressed clear.
Bugger again, engine light up, revs hunting like made, car spluttering. Bugger, bugger bugger!
Anyway, reset them again.
3 starts later and ticking over smoothly, 700rpm and silky smooth. Engine light still on.
Blipped the throttle, perfect!
Went for a drive and stopped every 1/2 miles and restarted, on the 3rd restart the engine is out.
Coolant now at 96ºc and the car is smooth as silk, picks up like a scolded cat and the throttle response is amazing, this is how I remember the N52.
MPG up from 23/24 to 29 today after doing 70 miles and a lot of that was city work too.
The whole car just feels better, smoother, lighter but more solid, and it is a joy. Even the steering feels better, it was feeling too heavy before. I was thinking that I was remembering through rose tinted glasses, and that after spending the day in my F11 yesterday I was thinking maybe the E91 is not for me?
But after getting it running right and using it today I am back in love.
Set of Good Year Eagle F1 Asymmetricals ordered, being fitted Friday, and then will consider a damper spring kit and new top mounts.
Bought a black grille for it, and as it is a beige interior I swapped the silver trim for wood (sacrilege I know!). I did that today, before when it didn't feel right I couldn't be arsed, but new found love for the car got me back into it.
Needs a good clean, but this is the wood, I must be getting old! Haha
Suspected the usual suspects, poor fuel, disa valves, vac leaks, eccentric shaft senor, camshaft solenoid valves, check valve, maf, the list is endless and could have been any one of those.
I scanned it and read the data, nothing of note, bugger!
Two tanks of 99 ron now so presume it is not crap fuel. So....
I decided on Monday to spend the day stripping it down, looking at the condition of the disa valves etc. before ordering parts. Problem is, two disa valves, couple of solenoids and eccentric sensor which are the main culprits could be a grand and still could be other bits and bobs.
Anyway, after getting the larger disa valve out and expecting it to be in bits, or at least not stuck open as it should be, I was suprised to see it looked like new, then the maf, again not even the slightest sign of age and it said 003619 on it, which I think is Wk 36 or 2019, so again new.
Hmm? Looked at the eccentric shaft sensor plug for any signs of oil? Nope, clean as a whistle, in fact new clean looking.
This got me looking on line, seems this misfire from low revs is very common, the only issue is many just live with it, they change every thing that can cause it and still have the problem.
This got me thinking, how can you change everything and still have the issue?
Adaptions maybe?
As these cars senors etc. wear the readings they send to the ECU change, obviously, but what does the ECU do? It doesn't just say "Oh look, that is not right!"
No, it adapts to make sure the car still runs as best it can.
So if it adapts how far can it adapt? Well I guess it keeps going until something is out of range and then you will get a EML.
This then got me thinking that you can't throw new sensors on the car and expect it to just work. You need to tell the car you have done it. You need to reset the adaptations and tell the car everything is back to spec.
Maybe I didn't need any parts? Maybe they had already been put in by the previous owner, but they had not sorted the issue, might have been better, but it wasn't right, so he got rid of it.
Maybe I just needed to reset the adaptations?
I got all excited and ran out to the garage with my Snap On in hand.
Plugged it in and.....no adaptation reset option anywhere. Bugger again!
Laptop? Cable? INPA?
Oh, got now windows laptop and my Macbook Air doesn't have enough space to give up to a windows partition.
Laptop ordered for next day delivery, should be here by the time I'm back from work in Holburn, give me something to do in the evening.
Right, INPA 5.0.0 won't run on the latest windows 10 as VM Ware has been locked out.
Great, that means 5.0.6 and that is all in German.
Anyway, got up and running, went to the engine, found reset all adaptations and pressed clear.
Bugger again, engine light up, revs hunting like made, car spluttering. Bugger, bugger bugger!
Anyway, reset them again.
3 starts later and ticking over smoothly, 700rpm and silky smooth. Engine light still on.
Blipped the throttle, perfect!
Went for a drive and stopped every 1/2 miles and restarted, on the 3rd restart the engine is out.
Coolant now at 96ºc and the car is smooth as silk, picks up like a scolded cat and the throttle response is amazing, this is how I remember the N52.
MPG up from 23/24 to 29 today after doing 70 miles and a lot of that was city work too.
The whole car just feels better, smoother, lighter but more solid, and it is a joy. Even the steering feels better, it was feeling too heavy before. I was thinking that I was remembering through rose tinted glasses, and that after spending the day in my F11 yesterday I was thinking maybe the E91 is not for me?
But after getting it running right and using it today I am back in love.
Set of Good Year Eagle F1 Asymmetricals ordered, being fitted Friday, and then will consider a damper spring kit and new top mounts.
Bought a black grille for it, and as it is a beige interior I swapped the silver trim for wood (sacrilege I know!). I did that today, before when it didn't feel right I couldn't be arsed, but new found love for the car got me back into it.
Needs a good clean, but this is the wood, I must be getting old! Haha
stevesuk said:
helix402 said:
TheGreatSoprendo said:
Check the seals on the bulb holders are intact. Silica gel sachets overnight in the light (make sure you can retrieve them) may help dry them out. 
Warmer weather came during the Spring, and it dried out completely and hasn't happened again since (touch wood!).
If it doesn't work then the next step is the hairdryer for about 30mins to clear it.
gizlaroc said:
I had a hesitation on my 330i, if you pressed the throttle fully down or even blipped it while in park it would stutter and and almost felt like it could stall, then suddenly pick up and be fine.
+ stuff
Purely out of curiosity - have you checked inside the DME housing for water. I've had the hesitation thing for years but only on very odd occasions.+ stuff
Since I had the DME and housing replaced after it was found to be bathing the boards I've not had a single issue.
gizlaroc said:
Bought a black grille for it, and as it is a beige interior I swapped the silver trim for wood (sacrilege I know!). I did that today, before when it didn't feel right I couldn't be arsed, but new found love for the car got me back into it.
Needs a good clean, but this is the wood, I must be getting old! Haha
I can relate to that - my 330i had beige leather and Poplar wood when I bought it, and in a 3 Series I quite like it! Mind you I am getting old now. Needs a good clean, but this is the wood, I must be getting old! Haha
Mr Tidy said:
gizlaroc said:
Bought a black grille for it, and as it is a beige interior I swapped the silver trim for wood (sacrilege I know!). I did that today, before when it didn't feel right I couldn't be arsed, but new found love for the car got me back into it.
Needs a good clean, but this is the wood, I must be getting old! Haha
I can relate to that - my 330i had beige leather and Poplar wood when I bought it, and in a 3 Series I quite like it! Mind you I am getting old now. Needs a good clean, but this is the wood, I must be getting old! Haha
Mr Tidy said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Forget the wood...what angle are those seat bases at!!
Flattish I suppose.I've always liked to sit low with my legs pretty much straight out. Probably harks back to Capri ownership, but it works in my Z4 too!
Gizlaroc has his at a really steep angle and that was what I spotted(I'm guessing he'd been hoovering it).
gizlaroc said:
Good stuff
Strangely I have a similar, but nowhere near as bad issue. I had a hesitation if I go at the throttle quickly when at low revs, below 1,800RPM. I can blip the throttle in neutral and be dead fine, and fuel economy seems fine for an N52 at a long term average of ~34MPG. Since they're original, next service I think I'll replace the solenoids (they're original, with 152,000 miles on them now) and the little mesh filter inside the cylinder head. No idle quality complaints, or anything else of the sort. I think they may be getting a little old and are unable to adjust the valve timing as quickly as the DME would suggest. No codes have been flagged either. I need to get INPA sorted on a machine of mine though, since it's much more handy than Carly.The beige interior is nice, and wood suits it much better than the ali trim. Gives it the 'welcoming' warm feeling especially during winter.The light lower dash and carpet is nice too. My 330d had beige trim and was really quite nice. Much prefer it to black leather. Not quite as much as cloth, but I have always been a little strange. Completely tangential, but that's why I like the incandescent interior lighting. Feels much less cold and clinical.
JakeT said:
Strangely I have a similar, but nowhere near as bad issue. I had a hesitation if I go at the throttle quickly when at low revs, below 1,800RPM. I can blip the throttle in neutral and be dead fine, and fuel economy seems fine for an N52 at a long term average of ~34MPG. Since they're original, next service I think I'll replace the solenoids (they're original, with 152,000 miles on them now) and the little mesh filter inside the cylinder head. No idle quality complaints, or anything else of the sort. I think they may be getting a little old and are unable to adjust the valve timing as quickly as the DME would suggest. No codes have been flagged either. I need to get INPA sorted on a machine of mine though, since it's much more handy than Carly.
I have the same. Coming on the gas, say off and roundabout, just a split second of hesitation. Replaced the solenoids with genuine BMW and it was fixed. You can remove and clean the VANOS check valves/filters easy enough. I removed mine and they we clean as a whistle.cerb4.5lee said:
Yours are fine for me and that is how I like to sit.
Gizlaroc has his at a really steep angle and that was what I spotted(I'm guessing he'd been hoovering it).
Haha, no that is how I like it. Tp be honest, by the time I have set the steering wheel up so my wrists are sat on top at 11 and 2 o'clock and I have moved my seat into the right position my knees are sort of up in that position anyway, I tilt the seat base until it comes up and supports under my thighs. Gizlaroc has his at a really steep angle and that was what I spotted(I'm guessing he'd been hoovering it).
I guess that is why I can't live with the non sport seats on many cars, they simply don't have enough tilt to support my thighs.
Hoovering? Look at the state of the matts!
I need to order a set of genuine rubber matts, got a set for the F11 and they are great. £70 well spent I reckon.
gizlaroc said:
Haha, no that is how I like it. Tp be honest, by the time I have set the steering wheel up so my wrists are sat on top at 11 and 2 o'clock and I have moved my seat into the right position my knees are sort of up in that position anyway, I tilt the seat base until it comes up and supports under my thighs.
I guess that is why I can't live with the non sport seats on many cars, they simply don't have enough tilt to support my thighs.
Hoovering? Look at the state of the matts!
I need to order a set of genuine rubber matts, got a set for the F11 and they are great. £70 well spent I reckon.
After I did that post I did think that you might prefer them at an angle(the sports seats do have nice adjustment to them). I also noticed the state of the mats after I'd done it and it made me smile! I guess that is why I can't live with the non sport seats on many cars, they simply don't have enough tilt to support my thighs.
Hoovering? Look at the state of the matts!
I need to order a set of genuine rubber matts, got a set for the F11 and they are great. £70 well spent I reckon.
JakeT said:
gizlaroc said:
Good stuff
Strangely I have a similar, but nowhere near as bad issue. I had a hesitation if I go at the throttle quickly when at low revs, below 1,800RPM. I can blip the throttle in neutral and be dead fine, and fuel economy seems fine for an N52 at a long term average of ~34MPG. Since they're original, next service I think I'll replace the solenoids (they're original, with 152,000 miles on them now) and the little mesh filter inside the cylinder head. No idle quality complaints, or anything else of the sort. I think they may be getting a little old and are unable to adjust the valve timing as quickly as the DME would suggest. No codes have been flagged either. I need to get INPA sorted on a machine of mine though, since it's much more handy than Carly.The beige interior is nice, and wood suits it much better than the ali trim. Gives it the 'welcoming' warm feeling especially during winter.The light lower dash and carpet is nice too. My 330d had beige trim and was really quite nice. Much prefer it to black leather. Not quite as much as cloth, but I have always been a little strange. Completely tangential, but that's why I like the incandescent interior lighting. Feels much less cold and clinical.
I know on my E91, it doesn't like a short jab/blip of the throttle.Feels a bit stuttery (for want of a better term). Otherwise it's fine. No hesitation on acceleration, powers to the red line with no problem. My Z4 (also N52) has no problems with the throttle blip.
E91 going in for service next week. Have also asked them to look at a few things:
- Dipped beam alignment - I think it's pointing too low. IIRC there's an arm on the rear suspension arm for auto levelling. Based on an error code I don't think it's working.
- Vibration when stopped at idle. Worse when in Drive. Perhaps engine or gearbox mounts? Definitely worse after the subframe was dropped for the sump pan gasket.
- Vibration in the steering wheel (and I feel car more globally) at speed (70mph). Not sure if bent/unbalanced wheel.
I predict more bills.
stevesingo said:
I have the same. Coming on the gas, say off and roundabout, just a split second of hesitation. Replaced the solenoids with genuine BMW and it was fixed. You can remove and clean the VANOS check valves/filters easy enough. I removed mine and they we clean as a whistle.
Good plan, Steve. Thanks. I was going to clean them, but after being in the engine for so long I may as well replace both. I've got the BMW part saved on eBay for the next round of servicing. I normally drive around it, usually when booting it away from a Peage in France, doing 20ish in third I notice it the most. Otherwise I don't normally open the taps fully at such low revs.VANOS Solenoids have always been on my list of things to do, however the hesitation I had went away with a good old fashions plugs and coil change, so it's never been a priority. After 146k it still picks up straight away and flies cleanly up to the limiter thanks to the remap.
It also went in for it's MOT yesterday, and thought you may be interested to hear the results of the emissions test:
Fast Idle CO: 0%
Fast Idle HC: 0ppm
Natural Idle CO: 0%
That all sounds pretty good considering the mileage. Car also went through first time, tester just picked up a slight wheel bearing noise which is getting fixed tomorrow, and slight play in the front ARB Drop Link, which I assume it what's causing the slight hop sideways I get if I hit a bump whilst cornering.
It also went in for it's MOT yesterday, and thought you may be interested to hear the results of the emissions test:
Fast Idle CO: 0%
Fast Idle HC: 0ppm
Natural Idle CO: 0%
That all sounds pretty good considering the mileage. Car also went through first time, tester just picked up a slight wheel bearing noise which is getting fixed tomorrow, and slight play in the front ARB Drop Link, which I assume it what's causing the slight hop sideways I get if I hit a bump whilst cornering.
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